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Admiral_Thrawn_1

What are European DDs Like?

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I was wondering what the EU line DDs are like? And what DD line they are most comparable to?

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I’ve been playing them mostly like a combination of French and uk dd.

french from the standpoint of using speed boost timely to fly around and dakka and drop torps. Albeit less aggressive in my positioning than I would be in a mogador or kleber because well, I’m not quite that fast and my boost is short 

uk from the standpoint of area denial. Defend flank, radar caps, spot enemies, spam torps

Should caveat this with I only have 2 euro dds, well friesland also but she’s different. And not many games played yet but so far this has worked fairly well. 

Edited by ditka_Fatdog

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How do they compare on Concealment, torpedo range, and torpedo speed?

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33 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I was wondering what the EU line DDs are like?

They are like destroyers that were made in Europe without smoke; some have right hand driver set-ups.

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My thoughts:

1. I love the line. You can have a lot of game impact.

2. You will not get huge amounts of damage.

3. I hit a lot of ships with torpedoes that I wasn't aiming at. Since I started, I have four ship kills against targets I wasn't aiming at.

4. You have a long stealth torp range and can launch torpedoes often with relative impunity. You can really punish smoke cloud campers from range because you only have narrow and extra-narrow spreads. I have murderlized Harugumos and Smolensks who didn't expect 70-knot-plus torpedoes intersecting their smoke clouds from 10 km+ away in patterns too tight to dodge. 

5. AA on the Tier VII+ ships is fantastic (for a destroyer). The AA and main guns really reward careful knowledge of when NOT to shoot. I've gotten hugely better at setting AA traps. Oland and Smaland are particularly good at this so far (I don't have Ostergotland yet). I set a personal plane kill record in Smaland, and have gotten severa AA Defense Expert achievements.

6. They are good anti-DD duelists as advertised.

7. The whole line rewards players who know how to abuse their surface and air concealment. If you can play Minotaur well, these ships will click for you. I am not great in the French DDs, but something about this line clicks with me. 

8. They are very demanding on captain skills. I'm coming to think that PM and LS are critical. They lose engines and rudders a lot in my experience. You want SE, BFT, TAE, and SE, but you run out of captain points real fast. I took PT -> AR -> TAE- > CE -> SE, and I'm torn about whether I can give up BFT or SE to get LS. You really need LS, and PM will help a ton because your gun mounts are also vulnerable.

9. The line has some idiosyncratic things to it. Visby has a wonky gun reload where not all the turrets reload at the same rate. Compared to Friesland, the tech tree ships have slow turret rotation, but it's not totally awful. Oland has a big boost to her gunnery because she has 360-degree turret rotation. Notably, Smaland does not have 360-degree turret rotation. Oland is a real monster with concealment build giving her 5.8 km surface detection. I have high hopes for Ostergotland in that vein as well.

Edited by RainbowFartingUnicorn
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Run & gun, drive like a squirrel running from a dog.

Footage of an EU DD in action.

 

Edited by BrushWolf
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Make sure to have some heart pumping music going too while you run and gun!

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fun

All tier 5 + have excellent torps, good concealment, good survivability (RP), good or better AA

All tier 8 + have good guns

None have smoke; or hydro. I like to think of them as hardcore for beginners (noob dd players like me)

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57 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

My thoughts:

1. I love the line. You can have a lot of game impact.

2. You will not get huge amounts of damage.

3. I hit a lot of ships with torpedoes that I wasn't aiming at. Since I started, I have four ship kills against targets I wasn't aiming at.

4. You have a long stealth torp range and can launch torpedoes often with relative impunity. You can really punish smoke cloud campers from range because you only have narrow and extra-narrow spreads. I have murderlized Harugumos and Smolensks who didn't expect 70-knot-plus torpedoes intersecting their smoke clouds from 10 km+ away in patterns too tight to dodge. 

5. AA on the Tier VII+ ships is fantastic (for a destroyer). The AA and main guns really reward careful knowledge of when NOT to shoot. I've gotten hugely better at setting AA traps. Oland and Smaland are particularly good at this so far (I don't have Ostergotland yet). I set a personal plane kill record in Smaland, and have gotten severa AA Defense Expert achievements.

6. They are good anti-DD duelists as advertised.

7. The whole line rewards players who know how to abuse their surface and air concealment. If you can play Minotaur well, these ships will click for you. I am not great in the French DDs, but something about this line clicks with me. 

8. They are very demanding on captain skills. I'm coming to think that PM and LS are critical. They lose engines and rudders a lot in my experience. You want SE, BFT, TAE, and SE, but you run out of captain points real fast. I took PT -> AR -> TAE- > CE -> SE, and I'm torn about whether I can give up BFT or SE to get LS. You really need LS, and PM will help a ton because your gun mounts are also vulnerable.

9. The line has some idiosyncratic things to it. Visby has a wonky gun reload where not all the turrets reload at the same rate. Compared to Friesland, the tech tree ships have slow turret rotation, but it's not totally awful. Oland has a big boost to her gunnery because she has 360-degree turret rotation. Notably, Smaland does not have 360-degree turret rotation. Oland is a real monster with concealment build giving her 5.8 km surface detection. I have high hopes for Ostergotland in that vein as well.

For what it's worth, Rainbow, one can do very good damage in Euro DDs.  Maybe not truly MASSIVE damage, but it's possible to do over 100k with them.  You want to start fires and floods to rack up the DOT damage to really pile up the overall damage.  

You have to be careful when using your guns against larger enemy ships as you don't have any smoke in which to hide.  You want to use terrain to lob shells over, or engage BBs that are looking the other way.  Also, be careful when engaging known strong secondary BBs, as they will have the sec gun range to chew you up.

I agree with you that they're good DDs, but I think that they require a more subtle style of play than the French DDs.  The French DDs are sort like a big hammer.  But the Euro DDs are more like a scalpel that you have to use with care and precision.

 

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On 3/18/2020 at 12:14 PM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I was wondering what the EU line DDs are like? And what DD line they are most comparable to?

French would be closest IMO. The French are better. Play very similar. Neither have smoke and both have bad concealment. French get good damage torps and a reload booster (guns) while the EU ones get a heal and slightly better concealment. French guns fire slower but are better. The EU torps might be fast and have good range but they are absolutely PATHETIC at doing damage. T5 is 6k damage, T6/T7 is 7k damage, T8+ is 10k damage. Think of it almost as if the EU DD's have CV torps. EU DD's are weakest DD line in game IMO (and of course based on Co-op use for me).

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14 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

French would be closest IMO. The French are better. Play very similar. Neither have smoke and both have bad concealment. French get good damage torps and a reload booster (guns) while the EU ones get a heal and slightly better concealment. French guns fire slower but are better. The EU torps might be fast and have good range but they are absolutely PATHETIC at doing damage. T5 is 6k damage, T6/T7 is 7k damage, T8+ is 10k damage. Think of it almost as if the EU DD's have CV torps. EU DD's are weakest DD line in game IMO (and of course based on Co-op use for me).

Agreed.  You also get murdered if you are detected out in the open and more than one ship targets you.  Positional awareness is of the utmost importance with these ships.

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One amusing tactic involves the use of islands.  In one co-op battle I circled an island with a New Mex in tow.  Took 12 torp hits but I finally managed to sink him.  The fast torp reload was the difference.

 

 

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4 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

French would be closest IMO. The French are better. Play very similar. Neither have smoke and both have bad concealment. French get good damage torps and a reload booster (guns) while the EU ones get a heal and slightly better concealment. French guns fire slower but are better. The EU torps might be fast and have good range but they are absolutely PATHETIC at doing damage. T5 is 6k damage, T6/T7 is 7k damage, T8+ is 10k damage. Think of it almost as if the EU DD's have CV torps. EU DD's are weakest DD line in game IMO (and of course based on Co-op use for me).

They are terrible in co-op. They're fantastic in Randoms, and I'm interested to see how they do in Ranked. The other big difference is that the French DDs are fast, and the Swedish ones are not. This makes a big difference in how you play them. The Swedish destroyers actually have pretty decent concealment - at Tier VIII, Oland with a stealth build is at 5.8 km concealment, the same as BensonSmaland gets down to 6.1 km, which is pretty respectable for Tier. Knowing who can outspot you and who cannot is important, as is how you match up against your opponent destroyer - if he spots you first, can you outfight him? 

I am loving this line. 

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I just tried the tier 5 ship and i wouldn't play another game in it.  Ill admit i was bottom tier, but landing those torps are just so unsatisfying considering how difficult it can be to position in this ship.  I mean if the enemy isn't running towards you, and you're in a CV game....good luck.  I never thought there would be a ship where i am jealous of the DPM of low tier Japanese destroyer guns.

Upper tiers in this line start to look far more decent.

As a side note, adding the Prem/Free Xp ships the way they did seems ultra discombobulated for captain training.  The ships are virtually nothing like the main line.

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On 3/18/2020 at 1:17 PM, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

My thoughts:

 

2. You will not get huge amounts of damage.

5. AA on the Tier VII+ ships is fantastic (for a destroyer). The AA and main guns really reward careful knowledge of when NOT to shoot. I've gotten hugely better at setting AA traps. Oland and Smaland are particularly good at this so far (I don't have Ostergotland yet). I set a personal plane kill record in Smaland, and have gotten severa AA Defense Expert achievements.

7. The whole line rewards players who know how to abuse their surface and air concealment. If you can play Minotaur well, these ships will click for you. I am not great in the French DDs, but something about this line clicks with me. 

8. They are very demanding on captain skills. I'm coming to think that PM and LS are critical. They lose engines and rudders a lot in my experience. You want SE, BFT, TAE, and SE, but you run out of captain points real fast. I took PT -> AR -> TAE- > CE -> SE, and I'm torn about whether I can give up BFT or SE to get LS. You really need LS, and PM will help a ton because your gun mounts are also vulnerable.

 

8. Ditch AR. Don’t really need it as the torp reload is short and gun reload is very short. Plus when I take dmg I tend to die. PM is essential. PT- if you are spotted they are shooting. LS, se, BFT for aa and gun reload, si, TAE and obviously ce. 
 

7. stay invisible 

5. AA can murder planes especially when you turn them on and off

2. dmg varies wildly game to game. I only use my guns to finish a crippled ship. Torp are main dmg and I have landed 20+ or 1. Had two 100k games in Oland and 1 with a confederate, high cal, and a kraken. They can dominated. And the can get spotted and die in 2 min. 

 

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I have at least a few games in each of the tiers 5-7, and I find almost every stat for these ships to be mediocre.  Concealment (6.2 min @ t7), speed (35kt @ t7), turning radius(610m @ t7), HP pool(13k! @ t7), and gun range(10.1k @ t7) are all low/middle of the pack.  The guns on the t5-6 have a fairly slow reload at 7.5s stock; the t7 is better at 3.2s but it has only 4 rifles in two turrets where as the t5 and 6 have 5 and 6 rifles, respectively.  HE shell damage seems to be on the low side; fire chance is 7% stock.  The torps reload VERY quickly with the t7 coming in at 59s, and they have excellent range - 8km on the t5, 10 on the t6, and 12km on the t7.  Max damage on the torps is barely better than CV torps though; the t7 torps max out at around 7500 damage.  Once you factor in the torpedo reduction on most ships and practically speaking they only hit for maybe 5k on average.  I had a game in which I hit an Amagi with 9 torps for a total of 40k damage.  Unless you get a flood to stick, you aren't going to sink many ships via torps.  OR guns. 

I feel like these ships are at their best in the mid-late game, when there are fewer enemies about and most will be at less than full health.  Their ho-hum concealment is less of a factor, and targets are more likely to have their DCP on cooldown so that floods and fires have a better chance of ticking for a while.  They reward patience and persistence, and both are required to have any kind of big impact on the game.  The ships I have played so far do NOT like to be uptiered, and games with CVs tend to lead to early trips back to port because you simply cannot hide from a CV.  The rather small health pools mean that rocket attacks can be devastating.  One good rocket attack will cost all of your heals and then some to recover.

I can't say they are bad ships, but I feel like they need just a little something.  The low alpha on the torps makes them somewhat unrewarding to play IMO in that even perfectly executed attacks rarely result in a dev strike type kill.  The whole death by a thousand cuts method takes time and frequently allows a teammate to secure the kill.  And while ultimately getting the enemy ship off the board is the important thing, its hard to deny that it is much more satisfying to secure a kill that you earned.

I have a feeling that this line may be similar to the Italian CA line in that it just gets better and better as you move up the tiers, with the tier 10 ship being the best in the line.  But that is pure speculation on my part as I've only gotten as far as t7.  Should have enough XP to unlock the t8 as soon as the line goes live though.

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If you get a match w/o CVS prepare for supreme entertainment value from euro DDs. Lulz to be had everywhere. 

With CVs everything changes. CVs make the game "all about them." Not that you cannot be successful with a single CV in game but if your team of Team Potato and you get isolated by rocket planes, etc, then its the same garbage meta experience with any other DD. 

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I only played one game in the T5 and well... why did they bother even making this line?  Somewhere between trash and garbage.  DD turrets that can't keep up with your turning?  What are you smoking?  Stealth torps can be fun, but they don't do much damage.  And torps are the only "good" thing about the ships.  If you are basing an entire line off of torpedoes, which have a 5% hit rate server-wide, well we already have the [edited] IJN's for that.  In a CV game, well you are basically useless.  Sluggish maneuverability means you can't dodge rocket planes (not that you can anyway) so just prepare to die.

I see absolutely no point to these ships.  Prove me wrong.

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14 hours ago, n00bot said:

I only played one game in the T5 and well... why did they bother even making this line?  Somewhere between trash and garbage.  DD turrets that can't keep up with your turning?  What are you smoking?  Stealth torps can be fun, but they don't do much damage.  And torps are the only "good" thing about the ships.  If you are basing an entire line off of torpedoes, which have a 5% hit rate server-wide, well we already have the [edited] IJN's for that.  In a CV game, well you are basically useless.  Sluggish maneuverability means you can't dodge rocket planes (not that you can anyway) so just prepare to die.

I see absolutely no point to these ships.  Prove me wrong.

Only have the T5 so far. Not impressed either but to be fair I only have a 4 pt captain and most DDs suck until you get CE. Not sure if it is worth grinding to get the captain to 10pts. So far the Ship Stats seem to confirm it is not a great performer in most players hands.

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IMHO Skane is where the line picks up. I have a bunch of good games with her. Oland is an improvement in gunnery from Skane as well, and I am hearing good things about Ostergotland.

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Lots of fun to play!  Quite wholesome, they don't lean too hard on any particular "gimmicks" in the mid-tiers.  Great at fighting other DDs, decent at dealing chip damage to other chips, and their fast and quick to reload torpedoes can create a big no-go zone, even if they don't have impressive alpha damage.

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Overall I like the line and find them fun and different to play, but like the reviewer above find it pretty mediocre compared to USN DD of same tier or Haida and Blys. I don't have much experience with the other DD lines, and I have only played t5 through t7 in Euro with a 14 point commander. Without smoke they need a bit more speed in my opinion, not a lot,  just a couple or three knots or reduce the speed reduction when turning maybe. They feel a little slow. The torp range, reload, and speeds are cool, but the damage on the torps needs a little bit of a buff. Detection range is middle of pack, ok. I cant hit anything with Visby guns, better with the other two ships, though I am not an expert marksman anyway.  AA is awesome in my experience, the CV stop sending planes close enough to you after you shoot down 30  or 40.  I was hoping to get more before the end of event but looks like t7 will be it.

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If you like doing little damage and not being able to do things destroyers would normally do, then this line is for you! Seriously though, save yourself the trouble and play a real destroyer. Shima is a better tech tree torpedo boat, and Daring is a way better gun boat. Gearing is a better hybrid.

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Useless destroyer every other destroyer in the game completely wrecks it in duels because the guns on it are useless beyond belief. This is from experience while going up the line at tier 5 right now and the only value they have is spotting that's it. You sit back and play AA patrol in a CV match and in a non CV match you just basically hide behind your teammates once spotted because there isn't much that it takes to take them out. You sneeze on them and they get destroyed that's how weak they're in the game. This line is not for beginners in anyway shape or form.

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