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How does ramming REALLY work?

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I had a polite argument with a player in a Random Battle over how ramming mechanics work, since I rammed said player's Alaska head on with my Seattle (both our ships had similar HP at the moment of collision, about 50k-60k range) but he survived the ram with 2000 HP remaining. 

The player insists that the difference in HP is the only thing that matters when it comes to ramming.  While I, on the other hand, have understood that ramming damage is calculated via HP differences and also ship weight density differences.   (Speed is also a factor, as well as the Ramming signal flag, but the main argument that I had with the other player was whether or not ship weight density also matters along with HP, or if only HP matters. 

 

What do you all think?  How does ramming work?  

 

 

(feel free to post any other Forum post links or WOWS videos that relate to the subject of ramming mechanics in the comments below)

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10 minutes ago, Ciryandil said:

How does ramming work?  

Well, you see, when a man and a woman are in love...err...ok...so, you know birds? and bees? So, the bee, when he really likes the bird....you know what? Ask your mom.

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54 minutes ago, Ciryandil said:

What do you all think?  How does ramming work?  

 

No idea … I just know I feel like having a cigarette when it's over :)

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2 hours ago, Ciryandil said:

I had a polite argument with a player in a Random Battle over how ramming mechanics work, since I rammed said player's Alaska head on with my Seattle (both our ships had similar HP at the moment of collision, about 50k-60k range) but he survived the ram with 2000 HP remaining. 

The player insists that the difference in HP is the only thing that matters when it comes to ramming.  While I, on the other hand, have understood that ramming damage is calculated via HP differences and also ship weight density differences.   (Speed is also a factor, as well as the Ramming signal flag, but the main argument that I had with the other player was whether or not ship weight density also matters along with HP, or if only HP matters. 

 

What do you all think?  How does ramming work?  

 

 

(feel free to post any other Forum post links or WOWS videos that relate to the subject of ramming mechanics in the comments below)

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

 

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3 hours ago, Ciryandil said:

What do you all think?  How does ramming work?   

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

 

Damage from a collision is not determined by a ship's current hit points (HP). Rather, a ship's total HP pool determines the maximum amount of damage that it can inflict to an enemy ship. In a high-speed collision, a ship with a large HP pool has the potential to inflict heavy damage. Ships with small HP pools, such as destroyers, have a reduced maximum damage output in a collision.

  • For example, Yamato has 97,200 HP. Since ramming damage is determined by the total HP pool, Yamato is capable of inflicting 97,200 damage through ramming. If a Yamato with 5,000 HP remaining were to ram an enemy Yamato with 97,200 HP, both ships would be destroyed. This is because the maximum damage output during a collision is determined by the total HP pool of ships, rather than the current HP in a battle.

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4 hours ago, Ciryandil said:

I had a polite argument with a player in a Random Battle over how ramming mechanics work, since I rammed said player's Alaska head on with my Seattle (both our ships had similar HP at the moment of collision, about 50k-60k range) but he survived the ram with 2000 HP remaining. 

The player insists that the difference in HP is the only thing that matters when it comes to ramming.  While I, on the other hand, have understood that ramming damage is calculated via HP differences and also ship weight density differences.   (Speed is also a factor, as well as the Ramming signal flag, but the main argument that I had with the other player was whether or not ship weight density also matters along with HP, or if only HP matters. 

 

What do you all think?  How does ramming work?  

 

 

(feel free to post any other Forum post links or WOWS videos that relate to the subject of ramming mechanics in the comments below)

I think the other guy was right - density is not a thing, but total HP (not current HP) is what matters. At least, for normal speed rams - not sure but low speed rams could have something different applied...

Edited by UltimateNewbie

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6 hours ago, Ciryandil said:

I had a polite argument with a player in a Random Battle over how ramming mechanics work, since I rammed said player's Alaska head on with my Seattle (both our ships had similar HP at the moment of collision, about 50k-60k range) but he survived the ram with 2000 HP remaining. 

The player insists that the difference in HP is the only thing that matters when it comes to ramming.  While I, on the other hand, have understood that ramming damage is calculated via HP differences and also ship weight density differences.   (Speed is also a factor, as well as the Ramming signal flag, but the main argument that I had with the other player was whether or not ship weight density also matters along with HP, or if only HP matters. 

 

What do you all think?  How does ramming work?  

 

 

(feel free to post any other Forum post links or WOWS videos that relate to the subject of ramming mechanics in the comments below)

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "ship weight density", but it doesn't sound to me like either of you had it quite right.  Damage inflicted by a high-speed ram is equal to each ship's total HP pool (not the REMAINING HP).  This makes sense, when you consider that the bigger the ship, the more damage you'd expect it to do to something it hits.  It may also be helpful to realize that, when WG designs a ship, they calculate the ship's HP pool from it's actual displacement, using a formula (I suspect the formula is proprietary; they won't tell you exactly what the formula is).  Anyway, ship displacement gives them an initial estimate of in-game HP, and they then do some tweaking to make it "work" in-game.  This results in bigger ships having larger HP pools...more or less.

The numbers you give, BTW, might be a little off?  You indicate both ships had 50-60K HP left at the time of collision, but Seattle's total HP pool, even with B hull, is only 43,600.  That assumes B hull, and captain doesn't have SE skill.  With SE, a B-hull Seattle would have 50,350 HP.

To recreate your situation, we'll need to make a few assumptions.  You can reverse out any of these that aren't true.  The necessary assumptions are (a) Seattle B hull, and (b) neither captain has the SE skill, and (c) neither ship is running the ram signal.  We'll also have to make an assumption about the exact HP each ship had remaining.  With those assumptions, your situation probably looked something like this:

Seattle - total HP pool with B hull = 43,600

Alaska - total HP pool = 60,800

You said the two had similar HP remaining, so we'll say Seattle had her full health - 43,600, and Alaska had 45,600 left.

Under those conditions:

Seattle inflicts 43,600 HP when she rams, leaving Alaska with 2,000 HP

Alaska would inflict up to 60,800 HP, enough to kill Seattle with lots left over.

Hope this makes things clearer.

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It's some formula with total HP and closing speed.

If both ships are the same...

  1. Both full speed ahead and ram into each other = Both take full damage of HP total from each other
  2. One ship is stationary and the other rams into it = same as above
  3. One ship is stationary and the other slowly rams into it = Both ships will take reduced damage and take multiple hits until sunk
  4. One ship is stationary and the other slowly coasts into it (engine to neutral) = Both ships will take reduced damage, they might take multiple hits, but if the game physics pushes them away (i.e. no further contact), both will flood, but not sink from the ramming itself.
  5. One ship is moving away, while the other rams into it = The ship moving away will take anywhere between 20% to 80% reduced damage, while the ramming ship will take 100% damage. (i.e. The ship moving away is counted as 3/4, but the ship chasing will be counted as 1/2)

I am not sure if mass is counted, but you can always try slow ramming a T10 BB with a plethora of lower tier ships.

Edited by MrDeaf

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2 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

It's some formula with total HP and closing speed.

If both ships are the same...

  1. Both full speed ahead and ram into each other = Both take full damage of HP total from each other
  2. One ship is stationary and the other rams into it = same as above
  3. One ship is stationary and the other slowly rams into it = Both ships will take reduced damage and take multiple hits until sunk
  4. One ship is stationary and the other slowly coasts into it (engine to neutral) = Both ships will take reduced damage, they might take multiple hits, but if the game physics pushes them away (i.e. no further contact), both will flood, but not sink from the ramming itself.
  5. One ship is moving away, while the other rams into it = The ship moving away will take anywhere between 20% to 80% reduced damage, while the ramming ship will take 100% damage. (i.e. The ship moving away is counted as 3/4, but the ship chasing will be counted as 1/2)

I am not sure if mass is counted, but you can always try slow ramming a T10 BB with a plethora of lower tier ships.

I think speed is definitely a multiplier … 

A smaller ship can take out a larger ship … depending on angle and point of impact I suppose

I doubt the physics is overly complicated beyond that

Edited by Commander_367

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9 hours ago, legozer said:

Well, you see, when a man and a woman are in love...err...ok...so, you know birds? and bees? So, the bee, when he really likes the bird....you know what? Ask your mom.

One of the reasons I'm glad we have a daughter. Not my department lol.

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1 minute ago, Skpstr said:

One of the reasons I'm glad we have a daughter. Not my department lol.

Boys are easy … I just told mine women are like cats 

If you chase them they run away - If you ignore them they're all over you :)

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37 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

Boys are easy … I just told mine women are like cats 

If you chase them they run away - If you ignore them they're all over you :)

If you didn't get more detailed, don't be surprised to hear that they are rubbing up against people, "spraying" all over the place lol.

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

If you didn't get more detailed, don't be surprised to hear that they are rubbing up against people, "spraying" all over the place lol.

Yeah, indiscriminate spraying would be frowned upon lol 

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5 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

Yeah, indiscriminate spraying would be frowned upon lol 

That, and the constant knocking of objects onto the floor lol.

Although, that's not just a cat thing. If you forget my hound's after dinner peanut butter in the Kong, he will start by pawing your leg, and then pushing things off the coffee table with his nose.

Luckily, he knows not to push anything breakable, or otherwise able to make a mess, he just does books, empty juice boxes, tissue boxes, etc.

Edited by Skpstr

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Ramming in WOWS works a lot like car crashes do in the movies -- the slightest touch results in a huge explosion. If this were the case in real life then there would be no need for paramedics to be dispatched to crash scenes, just corners.

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Ramming works better when one has the appropriate Signal Flag mounted on their ship.  :-)

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11 hours ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

 

Damage from a collision is not determined by a ship's current hit points (HP). Rather, a ship's total HP pool determines the maximum amount of damage that it can inflict to an enemy ship. In a high-speed collision, a ship with a large HP pool has the potential to inflict heavy damage. Ships with small HP pools, such as destroyers, have a reduced maximum damage output in a collision.

  • For example, Yamato has 97,200 HP. Since ramming damage is determined by the total HP pool, Yamato is capable of inflicting 97,200 damage through ramming. If a Yamato with 5,000 HP remaining were to ram an enemy Yamato with 97,200 HP, both ships would be destroyed. This is because the maximum damage output during a collision is determined by the total HP pool of ships, rather than the current HP in a battle.

This is how it supposed to work but it doesn't. There's so many recorded instances of two exact with the exact amount of hp ramming each other yet one survives and the other doesn't. Why does this happen?

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4 hours ago, JackSparrow_665 said:

This is how it supposed to work but it doesn't. There's so many recorded instances of two exact with the exact amount of hp ramming each other yet one survives and the other doesn't. Why does this happen?

There are only two factors when it comes to ramming, the max HP of the ship and the speed of the ships involved.  If the ships have the same max HP and are both hitting at full ahead then 100% of the time they will both die.  The mechanic is documented in the wiki article.

There is no doubt it works correctly, if you have a few replays to share we can take a look.

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9 hours ago, Commander_367 said:

I think speed is definitely a multiplier … 

A smaller ship can take out a larger ship … depending on angle and point of impact I suppose

No it can't.  The speed factor removes damage from each "tick" of ramming damage given the circumstances but can't go over 100% of max hp, aka the mass or displacement of the ship.

Most times all a ram needs to kill a ship is one "tick" but if the ships hit with a slow closing speed then you might see multiple, smaller HP hits until one is dead.

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1 hour ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

No it can't.  The speed factor removes damage from each "tick" of ramming damage given the circumstances but can't go over 100% of max hp, aka the mass or displacement of the ship.

Most times all a ram needs to kill a ship is one "tick" but if the ships hit with a slow closing speed then you might see multiple, smaller HP hits until one is dead.

Prove your theory and show us numbers … 

My experience tells me a smaller ship can take out a bigger ship with speed and good aim 

Works for me :)

 

Edited by Commander_367

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1 hour ago, Commander_367 said:

Prove your theory and show us numbers …  

My experience tells me a smaller ship can take out a bigger ship with speed and good aim 

Look at the wiki.

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3 minutes ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

Look at the wiki.

I have a better idea … 

I'm going to have a scotch and try to forget about the news and the stock market for a few hours 

o7

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22 hours ago, Ciryandil said:

What do you all think?  How does ramming work? 

Mechanic simplify

Ship A - Alaska with 50 000 HP

Ship B - Seatle with 40 000 HP

Just for simple assuming ram

Alaska will survive with 10 000 HP left, without calculating the flood damage after the ram. Seatle dead

 

If Seatle want to kill Alaska with the ram, Seatle should make Alaska HP down to or less than 40 000 HP; then ram with full speed 

If Alaska captain is smart, he should watch for his HP and try not to get it below 40 000 or try to avoid the ram completely

 

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I once hit a Russian BB running at max speed away from me in my speed boosted Georgia, both ships still took huge damage even though the actual speed difference would have been barely 8 knots. It took a while for me to catch up, the boop took a second to register compared to a head/side on ram. I blew up, he was almost sunk from a massive remaining health pool.

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15 hours ago, Commander_367 said:

Boys are easy … I just told mine women are like cats 

If you chase them they run away - If you ignore them they're all over you :)

It is a point of enduring mystery, whether women or cats rule the world.

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