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SidTheBlade

4km Torpoedos

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I've been playing the Rooskie DD line, to get me some of that Russian bias.

4 km torps are an interesting idea.

How are they supposed to work?

I have noticed that in order to use them, you sort of need to alert the enemy that you are nearby. As such, they sort of know you have torps. So, they are all about evading them. Hence, it is nearly impossible to land them.

Further, not every ship has hydro. Not every ship has radar. However, the number of ships that have neither hydro or radar is actually very small. Thus, getting within range to use these torps is, in nearly every case, an opportunity to become perma spotted. Smoke and even island cover are of no benefit.

I wonder, are 4 km torps, in practical fact, utterly useless, and another piece of broken game design?

Or, do folks have usable strategies where they are desirable?

How should we enjoy 4km torps?

Flamu has claimed that they are the most powerful in the game, due to their low detection range.

How many others feel this way also?

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They are ambush and yolo torps. Russian DD for the most part operate on lots of daka with the main guns.

 

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2 minutes ago, Vekta408 said:

They are ambush and yolo torps. Russian DD for the most part operate on lots of daka with the main guns.

 

Yeah, I thought so too. Then I tried "ambushing" stuff with them.

It's pretty hard, to ambush a thing, when the thing knows you are trying to ambush it before you are in position.

Indeed, the word "ambush" implies the element of surprise.

Tell me, young buck, how does one get within striking range of 4km torps, without being detected?

See, even if you use island cover, you need to emerge from cover and be broadside to actually let loose the torps. Furthermore, hydro and radar see clear through solid island cover. Aircraft spotting also reveals you.

I understand that the THEORY, the War Gaming "theory" of 4km torps is ambush.

I wonder, however, whether that theory has any practical basis in reality.

In all seriousness, I have begun to wonder whether the designers at WG, or at least the executives making the final decisions, even play the game.

The new Swedish torps are a joke. They are so bad, it is as though someone is trying to sabotage the game.

See, that would be an ambush. Put yourself out as a WG game designer, but in fact have the aim to destroy the game with Lol mechanics that make no sense at all.

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In your face, best used in ambush situations.

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Short ranged torpedoes are often the deadliest in the game as they are wicked fast and hit hard in exchange fir that short range. Which means if you get into close ranged brawl you will often win.

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Just now, SidTheBlade said:

Yeah, I thought so too. Then I tried "ambushing" stuff with them.

It's pretty hard, to ambush a thing, when the thing knows you are trying to ambush it before you are in position.

Indeed, the word "ambush" implies the element of surprise.

Tell me, young buck, how does one get within striking range of 4km torps, without being detected? 

 

   Coming out is yolo rushing … if they are going to drive by your island anyway you literally don't have to come out, just be patient … they can also be used defensively in your own smoke screen in case of one of those "oh excrement" moments where someone you didn't realize was there rushes you.

 

3 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

I understand that the THEORY, the War Gaming "theory" of 4km torps is ambush.

I wonder, however, whether that theory has any practical basis in reality.

 

    If you are looking at any of the Russian DDs in the tech tree past T4 and salivating over the torps and how you want to use them then you may want to look harder at the ships. They have great speed, largely garbage handling, very forgiving gunnery due to the velocity of the shells, and some of the better AP In game for DDs. You are a ranged gun boat, unless your name is Ognevoi, even Groz is a gun boat that happens to have usable torps. 

9 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

The new Swedish torps are a joke. They are so bad, it is as though someone is trying to sabotage the game.

See, that would be an ambush. Put yourself out as a WG game designer, but in fact have the aim to destroy the game with Lol mechanics that make no sense at all.

    The European lines torps are fairly speedy with a low detection range and fairly quick reload  meaning it is easier to hit with them all things being equal. Take in the whole ship then figure out how they can fit into the game as you understand it, as you play more you will learn more.

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57 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

How are they supposed to work?

They are good for ambushes, knife fights, and last stands against BBs which got too close.

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1 hour ago, SidTheBlade said:

I've been playing the Rooskie DD line, to get me some of that Russian bias.

4 km torps are an interesting idea.

How are they supposed to work?

I have noticed that in order to use them, you sort of need to alert the enemy that you are nearby. As such, they sort of know you have torps. So, they are all about evading them. Hence, it is nearly impossible to land them.

Further, not every ship has hydro. Not every ship has radar. However, the number of ships that have neither hydro or radar is actually very small. Thus, getting within range to use these torps is, in nearly every case, an opportunity to become perma spotted. Smoke and even island cover are of no benefit.

I wonder, are 4 km torps, in practical fact, utterly useless, and another piece of broken game design?

Or, do folks have usable strategies where they are desirable?

How should we enjoy 4km torps?

Flamu has claimed that they are the most powerful in the game, due to their low detection range.

How many others feel this way also?

Pretend they don't exist. Do not try to play the ship to use the torps, that will end up very badly. The torps are for emergencies only. If you screw up and someone gets that close, then they are very useful, but usually they just ensure you take him with you. If you find yourself in a situation, then they are indeed very powerful. They're also very effective and preventing people from getting up close and personal. But I cannot stress enough that on RU cruisers, you should not try to use them in general play. RU cruisers are meant to be used at range, and have pretty much no armor. Trying to use the torps will just get you killed. Nice in emergencies, but RU cruisers are all about the guns. So don't try and come up with strategies for torping people, don't try to rush in a torp, just play as if you don't have them. Eventually you will find yourself in a situation where you can use them, in which case yes they are very useful. But having ground up the whole line, I can count on one hand the number of times I've successfully used the torps.

Donskoi is a bit of an exception with 8km torps, but even there if you're within 8km in a Donskoi something has gone wrong. The best plan is just to pretend they don't exist.

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4km torps are only usable to yolo ship or ambush ship.

 

While they're not reliable as main source of damage (and if you're using soviet DD for torps then you must reconsider some choices), having them is still better than not having them at all. I'm sure there were games where Friesland wish it had 4km torps.

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31 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Pretend they don't exist. Do not try to play the ship to use the torps, that will end up very badly. The torps are for emergencies only. If you screw up and someone gets that close, then they are very useful, but usually they just ensure you take him with you. If you find yourself in a situation, then they are indeed very powerful. They're also very effective and preventing people from getting up close and personal. But I cannot stress enough that on RU cruisers, you should not try to use them in general play. RU cruisers are meant to be used at range, and have pretty much no armor. Trying to use the torps will just get you killed. Nice in emergencies, but RU cruisers are all about the guns. So don't try and come up with strategies for torping people, don't try to rush in a torp, just play as if you don't have them. Eventually you will find yourself in a situation where you can use them, in which case yes they are very useful. But having ground up the whole line, I can count on one hand the number of times I've successfully used the torps.

Donskoi is a bit of an exception with 8km torps, but even there if you're within 8km in a Donskoi something has gone wrong. The best plan is just to pretend they don't exist.

This is good advice.

I just played a game in the Gnevny, and sunk 3 ships, two with torps. Both times, I was escaping from a bad situation, and came upon a lurking ship completely by accident.

So these torps are not ambush torps. They are anti-ambush torps. When the enemy tries to ambush you (in fact I think these guys were as surprised to see me as I was them), you can shoot all the things as you escape.

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4km torps on any ship are only for defensive applications.. Depending on what ship 4km torps are being used, they're useful in saving your fantail of a tight situation...

More then likely, 4km torp ships are going to be more gun centered.

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2 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

Yeah, I thought so too. Then I tried "ambushing" stuff with them.

It's pretty hard, to ambush a thing, when the thing knows you are trying to ambush it before you are in position.

Indeed, the word "ambush" implies the element of surprise.

Tell me, young buck, how does one get within striking range of 4km torps, without being detected?

See, even if you use island cover, you need to emerge from cover and be broadside to actually let loose the torps. Furthermore, hydro and radar see clear through solid island cover. Aircraft spotting also reveals you.

I understand that the THEORY, the War Gaming "theory" of 4km torps is ambush.

I wonder, however, whether that theory has any practical basis in reality.

In all seriousness, I have begun to wonder whether the designers at WG, or at least the executives making the final decisions, even play the game.

The new Swedish torps are a joke. They are so bad, it is as though someone is trying to sabotage the game.

See, that would be an ambush. Put yourself out as a WG game designer, but in fact have the aim to destroy the game with Lol mechanics that make no sense at all.

 When they think they're safe around the corner of an island. The trick is to be going into your turn before you hit 3.5km so when you come screaming around the corner and they finally detect you they only have enough time to button-mash left mouse button IF they even have their guns pre-aimed.

The following is just an example:

Attack route #1 You use the island between you and the ship that thinks he's safe behind cover to mask your approach. What's his reload speed? Is he shooting at something else? Can you round the corner during his reload?

Attack Route #2 Is he shooting? What side of the island are his salvos coming out of? Is he close enough for you to round the opposite side he's facing? 

You must be aware of Hydro, Radar, Planes and other DD that may be in the area. Are they close enough to cause a problem? Who might be with that ship? Where are your ships? Look at your mini map. What is your exit path? Do you have enough alpha damage to kill him once you go around that corner? This is one of those DD things we can give you a rough idea how but you'll have to go out and just do it to figure out when you can get away with it.

MOf0skD.jpg

You can also use 4km torps to punish someone that is tunnel vision on you and gets baited into chasing you around cover.

Edited by Vekta408
  • Cool 1

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2 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

Yeah, I thought so too. Then I tried "ambushing" stuff with them.

It's pretty hard, to ambush a thing, when the thing knows you are trying to ambush it before you are in position.

Indeed, the word "ambush" implies the element of surprise.

Tell me, young buck, how does one get within striking range of 4km torps, without being detected?

See, even if you use island cover, you need to emerge from cover and be broadside to actually let loose the torps. Furthermore, hydro and radar see clear through solid island cover. Aircraft spotting also reveals you.

I understand that the THEORY, the War Gaming "theory" of 4km torps is ambush.

I wonder, however, whether that theory has any practical basis in reality.

In all seriousness, I have begun to wonder whether the designers at WG, or at least the executives making the final decisions, even play the game.

The new Swedish torps are a joke. They are so bad, it is as though someone is trying to sabotage the game.

See, that would be an ambush. Put yourself out as a WG game designer, but in fact have the aim to destroy the game with Lol mechanics that make no sense at all.

Derztki is the king.

Fast loading torpedoes. 

Great guns.

Ever try killing a Minsk? Fast as all get out. Kite and daka.  Rush down a BB and torp him.

......

So far visby is awesome. 

2 km stealth torps....

.......

By your obvious difficulty, you just need more practice.

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1 hour ago, AlcatrazNC said:

4km torps are only usable to yolo ship or ambush ship.

 

While they're not reliable as main source of damage (and if you're using soviet DD for torps then you must reconsider some choices), having them is still better than not having them at all. I'm sure there were games where Friesland wish it had 4km torps.

Atlanta also has torpedoes with pathetic ranges, yet every now and then she gets to use them and remind a BB sometimes that there are 2 US Cruisers past Tier V with torpedoes :Smile_trollface:  If a CL can make it work, a DD sure as hell can.

It's simply not a primary means of damage dealing, more of a tool to use for specific situations.  I'd rather have short ranged torpedoes that I can occasionally use to put the Fear of God into even Battleships, make the reds reconsider, than not to have torpedoes and the enemy knows it.

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3 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

I've been playing the Rooskie DD line, to get me some of that Russian bias.

4 km torps are an interesting idea.

How are they supposed to work?

I have noticed that in order to use them, you sort of need to alert the enemy that you are nearby. As such, they sort of know you have torps. So, they are all about evading them. Hence, it is nearly impossible to land them.

Further, not every ship has hydro. Not every ship has radar. However, the number of ships that have neither hydro or radar is actually very small. Thus, getting within range to use these torps is, in nearly every case, an opportunity to become perma spotted. Smoke and even island cover are of no benefit.

I wonder, are 4 km torps, in practical fact, utterly useless, and another piece of broken game design?

Or, do folks have usable strategies where they are desirable?

How should we enjoy 4km torps?

Flamu has claimed that they are the most powerful in the game, due to their low detection range.

How many others feel this way also?

They arm right before they turn into duds … requires total commitment :)

Like Russian roulette where you hope the other guy dies first

 

Edited by Commander_367

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I loved the Chappy and Budy.....just forget you have them..both ships kite pretty well...not slow....decent reload rates...and radar for the team or ships lurking behind other islands (besides you lol).   Unless.....late game...near an island....red ship is hunting you or you are hunting them....they often forget you have them...ta da....sunk for the win.  Those type of wins are sweet...but then again normally if you are firing torps in a Ruskie Cruiser...one of the two of ya in the encounter did something very wrong!

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As far as ambushing, it works best against island huggers.

You want to already be turning away, and almost turned too far to fire the torps, when you come out from behind the island. The target probably won't even notice you, as he's busy rainbow spamming a distant BB. 

You don't have to get to his broadside, let the fish go at 2-3km, and the spread is too tight for him to get through. (overlap if you have 2 launchers)

The key though, is that you can't go into the match thinking you're going to do that, only do it when an opportunity presents itself.

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