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MEANN

co-op / random strats

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I was on the game a fair amount over the weekend. It seemed to me that most of the server on the game were red according to match maker. On ave, each team had 4 to 6 red players. as an example of the caliber of player

"50 games 600 pr sub 20k ave dmg and a 30% or less win rate"

It got me to thinking. if the game has gotten so complicated that most of the "new players" are clueless. I have seen more BB's just sailing broadside and shooting like this was what you do than I would believe is normal.

at least 1 to 2 cruisers a game will rush the cap as there are less then 2 dd's per game. (thanks cv's) Upon the first 50% of their health removed by the amazing amount of 18" guns in the game now. yammy, ohio, georgia, thunderer. then of course this idea is abandoned. so what do they do? turn broad side to run away and we finish them. it seems like there is a co-op mentality that is littering the random games. It is a mirror of the co-op thought process. Charge the caps, turn out, die, repeat. 

Can we get some change in the AI of the co-op matches to not promote this is a means to play the actual game?

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Coop plays that way because being agressive is the only way to make bank.

Turning coop in to random (longer matches), with lesser payouts isn't attractive.

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1 minute ago, MEANN said:

Can we get some change in the AI of the co-op matches to not promote this is a means to play the actual game?

     No.

     First, PvE is at the rock bottom of the devs priority list.

     Second, most people learn pretty quickly that Co-op tactics of run-and-gun are suicide in the hide-and-go-seek world of randoms. Those that can't or won't adjust to that are hopeless.

     Third, every time in the past the devs have tried to make Co-op "more like random" it has been an epic fail, with bots just kiting off into the corners and making the matches a tedious chase to the inevitable outcome.

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52 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

     No.

     First, PvE is at the rock bottom of the devs priority list.

     Second, most people learn pretty quickly that Co-op tactics of run-and-gun are suicide in the hide-and-go-seek world of randoms. Those that can't or won't adjust to that are hopeless.

     Third, every time in the past the devs have tried to make Co-op "more like random" it has been an epic fail, with bots just kiting off into the corners and making the matches a tedious chase to the inevitable outcome.

It can't be at the bottom. Everyone learns the game in co-op. it needs to be addressed that it is producing crap players. proof is in the stats. i dont think that the bastion of crappy play is from players leaving. It is from bringing co-op training into random matches. They play long enough to get randoms and then buy a t8 t9 and off they go till they fail enough to have free xp for t10. 

Co-op needs to be more of a emulator or randoms and a prep for randoms. There should be a bot skill increase as you tier up. low tier dumb bots, mid tier still charge in but better aiming and some kiting away, t7 and up highly difficult AI with close to random level of skill required to win. 

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1 minute ago, MEANN said:

It can't be at the bottom.

    Oh, yes it can.

     Last week, MrConway, when asked about fixing the missing/removed Operations, quite clearly stated that Lesta is way too busy with subs, balancing, and new lines. No love for PvE for the foreseeable future.

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1 minute ago, MEANN said:

It can't be at the bottom. Everyone learns the game in co-op. it needs to be addressed that it is producing crap players. proof is in the stats. i dont think that the bastion of crappy play is from players leaving. It is from bringing co-op training into random matches. They play long enough to get randoms and then buy a t8 t9 and off they go till they fail enough to have free xp for t10. 

Co-op needs to be more of a emulator or randoms and a prep for randoms. There should be a bot skill increase as you tier up. low tier dumb bots, mid tier still charge in but better aiming and some kiting away, t7 and up highly difficult AI with close to random level of skill required to win. 

No it doesn't. 

People with thousands of games in PVP, and no or few games in PVE still aren't good at the game.  How do you explain the condition of their gameplay?

I've seen a number of good PVP players in co-op, and they play co-op like PVE mains.  And I've seen bad PVP players in co-op play badly.

Good players will understand the difference between the game modes.  Bad players won't.

And WG's foray in to "better" AI wouldn't make for better PVP players.

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8 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

    Oh, yes it can.

     Last week, MrConway, when asked about fixing the missing/removed Operations, quite clearly stated that Lesta is way too busy with subs, balancing, and new lines. No love for PvE for the foreseeable future.

PVE in 2019 and beyond is worse than 2018.  With the CV Rework in February 2019, a bunch of PVE Operations were removed from the game, the ones that had a lot of aircraft like Dynamo, Cherry Blossom, Hermes, Ultimate Frontier, Narai.  Narai returned but all aircraft were gone.  The others I mentioned have never come back.  Some of those were quite popular.  The loss of Cherry Blossom is a big one because that was the only Tier VIII Operation.  And right now, the only Tier VII Operation in circulation is Narai.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

PVE in 2019 and beyond is worse than 2018.  With the CV Rework, a bunch of PVE Operations were removed from the game, the ones that had a lot of aircraft like Dynamo, Cherry Blossom, Hermes, Ultimate Frontier, Narai.  Narai returned but all aircraft were gone.  The others I mentioned have never come back.  Some of those were quite popular.  The loss of Cherry Blossom is a big one because that was the only Tier VIII Operation.  And right now, the only Tier VII Operation in circulation is Narai.

     Agreed. My point is that, per recent WG employee statements, it ain't gonna get no better any time soon as far as Ops go.

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The reason players at high tier aren't good is there is no reason other than personal drive to be a good player.

And you don't even have to pay.  I play PVE, and I have a T9 premium and a T10 premium that I did not spend a dime on.  I could faceplant in random all day long and still maintain a positive credit balance.

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24 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

     Agreed. My point is that, per recent WG employee statements, it ain't gonna get no better any time soon as far as Ops go.

Oh yeah, it's not getting help anytime soon.

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Rather than say they should, suggest how they would and why they would. If you want WG to listen, you have to make like a business man and sell them on the idea.

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52 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Rather than say they should, suggest how they would and why they would. If you want WG to listen, you have to make like a business man and sell them on the idea.

Fair enough

  • t1 to 15 ai very forgiving of mistakes
  • t5 to t7 ai much more effective and begin to kite away
  • t7 to t10 ai should be able to beat a team of below average players unless team works together. 

why do this

  • it brings the player in a graduated process to be able to play in randoms against actual people
  • it makes for a dynamic reason to either stay at low tier for the players that want 99% win rates
  • it makes those players coming to the pvp side of the game better able to survive 
  • it will keep the pve more entertaining
  • improves overall skill in the game

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On 3/16/2020 at 3:49 PM, MEANN said:

Co-op needs to be more of a emulator or randoms and a prep for randoms

Noooo. It needs to be a place to get damage, ribbons, fires, etc. for completing missions. 

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