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BanCVComplainers

The real problem is radar

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Working as intended? I had to edit this because below everyone is talking about DD interaction and I didn't mention it specifically. I think one thing everyone is forgetting is that with this much radar there are no surprises anymore. Each team knows where the other one is at all times. There are no dynamic moments. 

 

image.thumb.png.2ac5f1af7014d3a31a6e6a251b723323.png

Edited by Ban_CV_Complainers
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I wonder if radar should be tier matched, rather than Nationality matched. The Cruisers without radar are a bit of a liability at high tiers. The Zao, the Hindy.... what are they for?

The Zao, especially, is very hard to see as a tier X ship. Next to the Alaska, she is much worse in every way. The Alaska has no citadel, the Zao eats them all the time. The Alaska has nearly twice the HP. It has much bigger guns. And, it has radar.

The Zao has low ship detection, and torps with very high detection and very poor firing angels. Those are it's "tier X gimmicks, that justify 40K health and squishy armour, and no radar.

Arguably the Zao is an "OK" tier 9, or a strong tier 8, while the Alaska is a decent tier X.

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I don't think radar, by itself, is the real problem although it's certainly a big part of it.  The real issue to my thinking is the entire spotting system.  Between radar and carriers and hydro and spotting by proxy it's just a brutal meta for any ship that been balanced in some part around concealment and that pretty much is all DDs not to mention more than a few cls.  I think the whole system is screwed up and needs a complete do over.  It would not hurt my feelings one bit if all spotting by other ships went to the mini map only.

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The real problem is the wows playerbase overreacts and cries over everything and if WG did ask the players what they wanted they would all say different things then fight over it saying they are the victim and players that play ship type x are the issue

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57 minutes ago, Malamute_Kid said:

I don't think radar, by itself, is the real problem although it's certainly a big part of it.  The real issue to my thinking is the entire spotting system.  Between radar and carriers and hydro and spotting by proxy it's just a brutal meta for any ship that been balanced in some part around concealment and that pretty much is all DDs not to mention more than a few cls.  I think the whole system is screwed up and needs a complete do over.  It would not hurt my feelings one bit if all spotting by other ships went to the mini map only.

This.

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1 hour ago, Koogus said:

The real problem is the wows playerbase overreacts and cries over everything and if WG did ask the players what they wanted they would all say different things then fight over it saying they are the victim and players that play ship type x are the issue

Sir or madam, I don't know if you understand how things work around here but you don't just come into a thread and lay that much truth down at once. There is a certain amount of decorum and coddling that needs to be injected into the bite size morsels of objective reality you choose to reveal.

Edited by _Caliph_
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Only problem about radar is that each team not getting equal amount of radar ships. Other than that, there is no problem at all. Even if there were 11 radar ships in each, you could play around them. If your positioning is good and if you use terrain wisely, you can juke radar. 

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3 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

I wonder if radar should be tier matched, rather than Nationality matched. The Cruisers without radar are a bit of a liability at high tiers. The Zao, the Hindy.... what are they for?

The Zao, especially, is very hard to see as a tier X ship. Next to the Alaska, she is much worse in every way. The Alaska has no citadel, the Zao eats them all the time. The Alaska has nearly twice the HP. It has much bigger guns. And, it has radar.

The Zao has low ship detection, and torps with very high detection and very poor firing angels. Those are it's "tier X gimmicks, that justify 40K health and squishy armour, and no radar.

Arguably the Zao is an "OK" tier 9, or a strong tier 8, while the Alaska is a decent tier X.

Are you really trying to call zao a weak ship? :cap_fainting:

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3 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Are you really trying to call zao a weak ship? :cap_fainting:

It doesn't exactly inspire the fear of god in me, when I see one.

Are you really trying to call it the Lion of Tier X? The terror of the seas?

The ship that other tier Xs fear to meet.

Phhht.

It is weak, and squishy. For its tier.

Edited by SidTheBlade

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It's not like there are ship able to stealth radar in that list.

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1 minute ago, SidTheBlade said:

It doesn't exactly inspire the fear of god in me, when I see one.

Are you really trying to call it the Lion of Tier X? The terror of the seas?

No i wouldnt call her the terror of the seas but this diesnt mean she is a weak ship. 

1 minute ago, SidTheBlade said:

The ship that other tier Xs fear to meet.

Phhht.

It is weak, and squishy. For its tier.

On the contrary, she is a strong ship. She has amazing concealment, really good HE and AP, her range is also really good, shell arcs are amazing (you can reliably hit DDs even from max range), her armor is also ok. 

What can you ask for? Besides radsr and torp reload boaster? But those are not her gimmicks. Soo, she is a pretty solid t10.

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4 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

(you can reliably hit DDs even from max range),

There it is!

"It's great against DDs."

When you hear that old chestnut, the game is up.

Talk about short bus bingo.

Wanna know what is great against DDs?

The Goriza.

This conversation is done.

Good against DDs. My lord, the young people today.

Edited by SidTheBlade
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8 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

There it is!

"It's great against DDs."

When you hear that old chestnut, the game is up.

Talk about short bus bingo.

Wanna know what is great against DDs?

The Goriza.

This conversation is done.

Good against DDs. My lord, the young people today.

Are you for real? :Smile_facepalm: I counted like 6 good features of her. you cherry picked one of them and made the commet above which makes absolutely no sense at all.

Besides, i said "you can reliably hit DDs from max range" as an explanation for having good shell arcs. And i said DDs because they are the fastest, smallest and most maneuverable ships in game. I could also say that you can hit any ship reliably even from max range.

So, i didnt say anything about her being great against DDs. Jesus... some "people":Smile_facepalm:

Edited by ghostbuster_
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I think having 3-4 radar and a CV in many matches is too much. DD games are going down and a rather large skill gap between the good and the bad seems to be developing.

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5 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

I wonder if radar should be tier matched, rather than Nationality matched. The Cruisers without radar are a bit of a liability at high tiers. The Zao, the Hindy.... what are they for?

The Zao, especially, is very hard to see as a tier X ship. Next to the Alaska, she is much worse in every way. The Alaska has no citadel, the Zao eats them all the time. The Alaska has nearly twice the HP. It has much bigger guns. And, it has radar.

The Zao has low ship detection, and torps with very high detection and very poor firing angels. Those are it's "tier X gimmicks, that justify 40K health and squishy armour, and no radar.

Arguably the Zao is an "OK" tier 9, or a strong tier 8, while the Alaska is a decent tier X.

Zao has far more going for it than you realize and it does not need the Radar. And neither does the Hindenburg, or Yoshino.

And Radar is not the biggest reason for ships getting  perma spotted, that would be the CVs doing that. I can take a stealthy DD out and deal with most things including Radar well enough and if I get careless then the Radar might nail me. But a decent CV player will find your DD, and make certain to keep you spotted until your sunk or by some miracle their CV gets sunk and you somehow can wait out their last couple minutes of flight time.

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6 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

I feel for the dd's in that match.

Why? even one of the DDs has a radar.

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3 hours ago, _Caliph_ said:

Sir or madam, ...

...will you read my book?

It took me years to write, will you take a look?

It’s based on a novel by a man named Lear,

and I need a job, so I want to be a paperback writer.

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Don't worry the only thing worse than radar is 12km stealth radar.  Now what nation gets 12km stealth radar?  

Edited by Rothgar_57

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Only issue I see in that match is 12k radar "but Russian ships have no bias" It out ranges most Torps. Otherwise I wouldnt be worried, Radar in a DD I can work around and even exploit. CV Rockets are a big Nope, I watched a bow on pass take 12k off a Des Moines yesterday and now they want to add Citadel Rockets.... Sooner or later the cash will stop flowing and when one of their wonderfully thought out surveys ask why the vast majority will say CV (Not those on the forum who are less than 1/10th of 1% of players but actual players)

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1 hour ago, Rothgar_57 said:

Don't worry the only thing worse than radar is 12km stealth radar.  Now what nation gets 12km stealth radar?  

With a 10 second duration.....

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7 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

I wonder if radar should be tier matched, rather than Nationality matched. The Cruisers without radar are a bit of a liability at high tiers. The Zao, the Hindy.... what are they for?

The Zao, especially, is very hard to see as a tier X ship. Next to the Alaska, she is much worse in every way. The Alaska has no citadel, the Zao eats them all the time. The Alaska has nearly twice the HP. It has much bigger guns. And, it has radar.

The Zao has low ship detection, and torps with very high detection and very poor firing angels. Those are it's "tier X gimmicks, that justify 40K health and squishy armour, and no radar.

Arguably the Zao is an "OK" tier 9, or a strong tier 8, while the Alaska is a decent tier X.

Zao and Hindenburg still do fine at Tier X.

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