Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
HeidiAngel

Unfair advantage?

74 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
399 posts
2,045 battles

I have a question about certain ships having an advantage. Just was in a game where we were up 5 ships to 2 and less than 5 minutes to go in the game. Enemy team had a Dallas who was being played very well. The enemy BB that was left was the Italian Giulio Cesare. The BB pushed and without almost any effort sank 4 ships in less than 2 minutes. A New York, Leander [me] a New Mexico and a DD. The dd was almost dead anyway but the New York and New Mexico were both at half health. He or she obviously is a good player but the ship also made a difference.

Our New York was top of our board so he was having a good game. I was 4th but had run out of smoke and my pellets were just bouncing off with no effect. My concern is certain players have this ship and no one else is given the opportunity to get one. I have heard about the ship before and people saying it was OP'd but as I play more games in tier 5 and 6 I am seeing more of them and the damage they do.

I am forced to play against the ship and do not have a chance to get one. Is that fair to the rest of the players? Dad said their are other ships that are very good that also can't be purchased anymore but some players have them. Should not we all have the same chance as everyone else to have these ships?

Dad showed me the history of the 4 BB's that Italy rebuilt in the 1930's, The Cesare being one of them. Their performance was lackluster at best in ww2. HMS Warspite hit her in battle once and she ran away badly damaged. Not a good fight. Anyway that is my thought. Good Luck to all of you and Good Shooting!:cap_horn:

df6e1a3da4b35df14d4d02afef0e0aab.jpg

  • Cool 3
  • Funny 1
  • Boring 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,363
[WORX]
Members
13,286 posts
20,135 battles
1 minute ago, HeidiAngel said:

I have a question about certain ships having an advantage. Just was in a game where we were up 5 ships to 2 and less than 5 minutes to go in the game. Enemy team had a Dallas who was being played very well. The enemy BB that was left was the Italian Giulio Cesare. The BB pushed and without almost any effort sank 4 ships in less than 2 minutes. A New York, Leander [me] a New Mexico and a DD. The dd was almost dead anyway but the New York and New Mexico were both at half health. He or she obviously is a good player but the ship also made a difference.

WOWS is a BB/guns/rocket platform for 2020.

Wait till you get to tiers 8 to 10, the disproportionate adv of some ships really start to shine..

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
399 posts
2,045 battles
2 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

WOWS is a BB/guns/rocket platform for 2020.

Wait till you get to tiers 8 to 10, the disproportionate adv of some ships really start to shine..

Yes,,My Father is telling me that. Not looking forward to fighting a Stalingrad.

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,539
[BNKR]
[BNKR]
Members
2,882 posts
2,681 battles

If 4 ships working together couldn't sink a lone Cesare, then the 4 ships were poorly played.  They should have set up a crossfire, Cesare has poor armor when showing broadside.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8,940
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester
28,330 posts
14,924 battles
17 minutes ago, HeidiAngel said:

I am forced to play against the ship and do not have a chance to get one. Is that fair to the rest of the players? Dad said their are other ships that are very good that also can't be purchased anymore but some players have them. Should not we all have the same chance as everyone else to have these ships?

Dad showed me the history of the 4 BB's that Italy rebuilt in the 1930's, The Cesare being one of them. Their performance was lackluster at best in ww2. HMS Warspite hit her in battle once and she ran away badly damaged. Not a good fight. Anyway that is my thought. Good Luck to all of you and Good Shooting!:cap_horn:

 

I think their lackluster performance was more because of the impossible to fufill battle conditions the high command put on them. They functionally were "Destroy the enemy but take no damage" which anyone should see is impossible. Also by that point in the war the moral of the men & officers was pretty poor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,680
[SALVO]
Members
26,314 posts
30,328 battles
17 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

That ship in particular should of been rebalanced, but some players cried about it; so here we are. 

FTFY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,680
[SALVO]
Members
26,314 posts
30,328 battles
11 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

If 4 ships working together couldn't sink a lone Cesare, then the 4 ships were poorly played.  They should have set up a crossfire, Cesare has poor armor when showing broadside.

The problem is that in late game situations, you can have those 4 ships all spread out, and many players just don't understand that the best thing they can do is try to form up in a single group, or at least a couple of groups of 2.  Coming at a single well played ship one at a time is a formula for failure.  Not every time, but more than often enough.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,044
[UNHLY]
Members
3,252 posts
25,313 battles
1 hour ago, HeidiAngel said:

Yes,,My Father is telling me that. Not looking forward to fighting a Stalingrad.

The GC is a tuff ship to play against in the hands of a capable player, but its not invincible, like another player above mentioned catch the ship in a crossfire firing AP and HE at her, she can only train her guns on 1 ship at a time.   

Its not fun but the longer you play the better you will get, just stick to it if you like the game no matter how bad games turn out.

There are some powerful tech tree ships coming your way as you climb the tier ladder and get these ships.

Good luck  

Edited by tm63au
  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
295
[NFJF]
Members
707 posts
11,017 battles
14 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

That ship in particular should of been rebalanced, but the players cried about it; so here we are. 

So if you spent real money on an in game item, and suddenly it were changed to where that item was devalued to where it was no longer worth what you paid for it that wouldn't bother you? Its just like the type 59 in wot, get it while you can and if not, well snooze you loose. Once a premium that can only be obtained by spending real money goes live, its stats need to be absolutely final, unless its just a stinker like the graf zeppelin was, which would make it a rip off. Keeping all player groups happy is a balancing act, but the folks "myself included" who spend money on the game regularly are the ones who keep it going financially. If our in game purchases start being devalued, then likely we'd stop making purchases and then overtime the game would die, meaning there would no longer be a WOWS for anybody. Not trying to sound like a prick and I'm for a fair and balanced game, but you cant just devalue peoples purchases and expect it to not have negative consequences. If I were promised a doubloon or monetary refund for a "rebalanced" premium that was no longer worth it, then that would be fine. However, we know WG likes to avoid doing refunds if at all possible. 

  • Cool 10
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,015
[USA-N]
Members
785 posts
12,301 battles

With respect to the OP, you all could have agreed to ram the guy.

Ramming is a totally legit tactic, if you face a very stronk enemy that could take you all down, given the opportunity. Both the new york and new mexico could have rushed him, and they would have been angled the whole time. You could also have rushed him, causing him him to worry about torps and drawing fire from the BBs.

Remember, once he gets rammed, other ships going for the ram are in no danger. 

Ramming is glorious and legit naval warfare.

Never be the guy who says "I should have rammed that dude."

Go right at the superior enemy, and show him that he is in the world.

Edited by SidTheBlade
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,138 posts
14,845 battles
2 minutes ago, admiralsexybeast said:

So if you spent real money on an in game item, and suddenly it were changed to where that item was devalued to where it was no longer worth what you paid for it that wouldn't bother you? Its just like the type 59 in wot, get it while you can and if not, well snooze you loose. Once a premium that can only be obtained by spending real money goes live, its stats need to be absolutely final, unless its just a stinker like the graf zeppelin was, which would make it a rip off. Keeping all player groups happy is a balancing act, but the folks "myself included" who spend money on the game regularly are the ones who keep it going financially. If our in game purchases start being devalued, then likely we'd stop making purchases and then overtime the game would die, meaning there would no longer be a WOWS for anybody. Not trying to sound like a prick and I'm for a fair and balanced game, but you cant just devalue peoples purchases and expect it to not have negative consequences. If I were promised a doubloon or monetary refund for a "rebalanced" premium that was no longer worth it, then that would be fine. However, we know WG likes to avoid doing refunds if at all possible. 

I care more about game balance, than I do my own personal investment in video games. 

I own a GC, it wouldnt of bothered me at all. 

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,499
[--K--]
[--K--]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
2,877 posts
10,546 battles
31 minutes ago, HeidiAngel said:

 Giulio Cesare.

No, its not fair.  That was the point of halting sales in the first place for her, as she was the progenitor of the battlecruiser dispersion curve for larger caliber main battery guns, aka unfairly accurate.  WG tried to nerf her, and many argued against it.  My personal issue being that if you want to nerf her, fine but you better handsomely compensate us for those who paid for her since you're now by technical legal definition "Baiting and switching" which is why WG simply just backed off.

That being said,  you can actually get her... you just need to gamble with their lootboxes during christmas time.

It sucks not being able to get her or fight against her when the player is most likely fairly experienced as well... however this circumstance with OP Premium ships has gone on for a long time now.  It won't change either, most likely.  My best advice is to play around the GC by picking flanks where she isn't on, and try to create a large enough advantage for your team where even with the GC's power she cannot make up for the team loss deficit.  

Otherwise, find and play with people who are good enough to overcome such ships.  Sorry, there's nothing else to really say on the situation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,044
[UNHLY]
Members
3,252 posts
25,313 battles
3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The problem is that in late game situations, you can have those 4 ships all spread out, and many players just don't understand that the best thing they can do is try to form up in a single group, or at least a couple of groups of 2.  Coming at a single well played ship one at a time is a formula for failure.  Not every time, but more than often enough.  

Agreed GC will destroy anything in a 1 V 1 battle piecemeal, in that scenario with 5 minutes to go forming some sought of grouping then mass attacking in the last minutes just to buy those moments if your front, easy said than done of course.

I was in a very simular scenario a couple years ago and I was playing in my GC we were losing, we down for the count they even had ships in our cap so I switched flanks including sailing through our cap sinking 2 ships on the way to the other flank no focussed me.

I ended up sinking 4 ships and on the chat line a red player said " well were winning till the GC showed up " and I'm not that great of player it was more luck.

I've burned to waterline in the GC, just focus and burn them down.          

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,005
[REVY]
Members
2,836 posts
15,055 battles
32 minutes ago, HeidiAngel said:

I have a question about certain ships having an advantage. Just was in a game where we were up 5 ships to 2 and less than 5 minutes to go in the game. Enemy team had a Dallas who was being played very well. The enemy BB that was left was the Italian Giulio Cesare. The BB pushed and without almost any effort sank 4 ships in less than 2 minutes. A New York, Leander [me] a New Mexico and a DD. The dd was almost dead anyway but the New York and New Mexico were both at half health. He or she obviously is a good player but the ship also made a difference.

Our New York was top of our board so he was having a good game. I was 4th but had run out of smoke and my pellets were just bouncing off with no effect. My concern is certain players have this ship and no one else is given the opportunity to get one. I have heard about the ship before and people saying it was OP'd but as I play more games in tier 5 and 6 I am seeing more of them and the damage they do.

I am forced to play against the ship and do not have a chance to get one. Is that fair to the rest of the players? Dad said their are other ships that are very good that also can't be purchased anymore but some players have them. Should not we all have the same chance as everyone else to have these ships?

Dad showed me the history of the 4 BB's that Italy rebuilt in the 1930's, The Cesare being one of them. Their performance was lackluster at best in ww2. HMS Warspite hit her in battle once and she ran away badly damaged. Not a good fight. Anyway that is my thought. Good Luck to all of you and Good Shooting!:cap_horn:

There are several ships out there that are no longer available. Many seemed OP at the time and in the right hands were quite OP. However there are now people posting that given new lines and power creep, they may not be as OP as they once were.

GC is unusual in that when it was released, it was considered a strong ship, that eventually became considered OP. It was planned for a Nerf, but there was a huge uproar and nothing came of it.

 

21 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

If 4 ships working together couldn't sink a lone Cesare, then the 4 ships were poorly played.  They should have set up a crossfire, Cesare has poor armor when showing broadside.

 

8 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The problem is that in late game situations, you can have those 4 ships all spread out, and many players just don't understand that the best thing they can do is try to form up in a single group, or at least a couple of groups of 2.  Coming at a single well played ship one at a time is a formula for failure.  Not every time, but more than often enough.  

 

While I wouldn't put it like CaptainKaitoGhost, I would have to agree that perhaps in your 5 on 2 situation, your team may have been outplayed.

Without seeing a replay, its hard to really pin down was the GC really well played, or was your team making unfortunate mistakes (AP in a situation were HE would have been better). Is it also possible that your team decided to push an attack, when they simply could have held back as time and score was on your side.

Alot of teams make that error. The point total is on their side, there is not much time left, if they do nothing but defend, they will win. But they just can't let those last enemy ships stay afloat and charge after them. As a result, they end up getting sunk, costing their team the battle.

 

Perhaps you could provide a replay. @Lord_Zath is well known for critiquing replays, and can perhaps provide his views on where things went wrong.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
295
[NFJF]
Members
707 posts
11,017 battles
7 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

I care more about game balance, than I do my own personal investment in video games. 

I own a GC, it wouldnt of bothered me at all. 

To each his own. While I do ultimately know this is just a game, I do consider my account somewhat of an investment "one for my enjoyment" given the number of premiums I own, and all the other in game purchases I make on a regular basis. If you're selfless enough to care about "the good of all" over your own bottom line, then good for you. On the other hand, when I make a purchase here, I expect to get my moneys worth out of it for the rest of time the game continues to exist.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,107
[FOXEH]
Banned
14,364 posts
20,838 battles
22 minutes ago, admiralsexybeast said:

So if you spent real money on an in game item, and suddenly it were changed to where that item was devalued to where it was no longer worth what you paid for it that wouldn't bother you?

Which is exactly what has already happened to every player who owned a Destroyer when OWSF was removed and the accompanying torpedo nerfs hit, so please quit crying about your OP BB which still needs to be rebalanced.

  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
295
[NFJF]
Members
707 posts
11,017 battles
Just now, Umikami said:

Which is exactly what has already happened to every player who owned a Destroyer when OWSF was removed and the accompanying torpedo nerfs hit, so please quit crying about your OP BB which still needs to be rebalanced.

So sorry my opinion was so displeasing to you. Would you like a tissue?

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,107
[FOXEH]
Banned
14,364 posts
20,838 battles
Just now, admiralsexybeast said:

So sorry my opinion was so displeasing to you. Would you like a tissue?

No, I'd like BBs to be treated like everyone else is, but since this is world of battleships that will never happen. Premiums can, and should, be nerfed when they're OP.

  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,518
[-K-]
SuperTest Coordinator, Alpha Tester, WoWS Community Contributors, Wiki Editor
6,358 posts
24,783 battles
15 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

There are several ships out there that are no longer available. Many seemed OP at the time and in the right hands were quite OP. However there are now people posting that given new lines and power creep, they may not be as OP as they once were.

GC is unusual in that when it was released, it was considered a strong ship, that eventually became considered OP. It was planned for a Nerf, but there was a huge uproar and nothing came of it.

 

 

 

While I wouldn't put it like CaptainKaitoGhost, I would have to agree that perhaps in your 5 on 2 situation, your team may have been outplayed.

Without seeing a replay, its hard to really pin down was the GC really well played, or was your team making unfortunate mistakes (AP in a situation were HE would have been better). Is it also possible that your team decided to push an attack, when they simply could have held back as time and score was on your side.

Alot of teams make that error. The point total is on their side, there is not much time left, if they do nothing but defend, they will win. But they just can't let those last enemy ships stay afloat and charge after them. As a result, they end up getting sunk, costing their team the battle.

  

Perhaps you could provide a replay. @Lord_Zath is well known for critiquing replays, and can perhaps provide his views on where things went wrong.

 

Appreciate the referral!  OP, feel free to e-mail me (see signature) or join my Discord https://discord.gg/5y2Nrx7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,299
[VCRUZ]
Members
4,049 posts
9,180 battles

Cesare is a great ship, a OP ship. But if 4 ships could not take it down, those ships played poorly. Cesare is OP, but still has weaknesses. That NM alone coupd beat GC if properly played. 

 

What probably happened is that the GC player was a good one and played well, while the other four where bad players and played poorly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,650 posts

OP: many BB in the meta are overpowered, they are too fast, and high caliber shell dispersion is totally unreal, but the nerfs are for torps & IFHE (mostly DD & CL). This meta is totally BB-centric, getting worst and worst by the patch...funny how BB did so few in WWII and are so considered here, it's an adaptation to the average player...sad...

  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,299
[VCRUZ]
Members
4,049 posts
9,180 battles
1 hour ago, Rollingonit said:

That ship in particular should of been rebalanced, but the players cried about it; so here we are. 

And they were right in complaining, WG chise the worst possible way to try to nerf GC, changing the tier of the ship. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
295
[NFJF]
Members
707 posts
11,017 battles
10 minutes ago, Umikami said:

No, I'd like BBs to be treated like everyone else is, but since this is world of battleships that will never happen. Premiums can, and should, be nerfed when they're OP.

I'm guessing you're probably in that "CVs are just fine right now" crowd if you think BBs are the problem in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,138 posts
14,845 battles
8 minutes ago, Xlap said:

And they were right in complaining, WG chise the worst possible way to try to nerf GC, changing the tier of the ship. 

Why, so it couldnt beat up on new players in T4? 

The "value" if you want to define it monetarily actually would of increased. The "value" I think people perceive is the combat effectiveness, and that isnt determined because we never saw it in action. 

edit: Anyways, what is done is done. I am at my 3 post per thread limit. Good luck all.

Edited by Rollingonit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×