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wjp120

What was wrong with the slot 3 AA upgrade?

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Some of the new upgrades are good, and offer new meaningful choices. But why, at the same time, was the slot 3 AA module made into a "never choose this" choice? At least, I haven't found a situation where it would be useful yet. And even if it was marginally useful for AA in a particular situation on a particular ship, one of the other options for that slot would still probably be better in any match that situation came up in.

 

The "old" AA module we had for part of a year actually offered a meaningful choice on ships with both good AA and good guns. I used it on my Friesland, and definitely felt its worth, and felt the absence of the dispersion module when shooting at DDs more than 4 or 5 km away.

 

Also, since the +2 flak effect on the slot 6 AAA2 upgrade is only during DefAA, there's really no reason not to bring back the slot 3 flak upgrade. They're two different effects already, so the slot 6 upgrade wouldn't have to be changed.

 

If the combination of the new slot 6 and the older slot 3 did prove too effective, then perhaps the recent attack delay increase on bombers could be partially reverted to compensate.

 

In any case, I wonder what was wrong with the older slot 3 AA upgrade. It seemed to fit the new upgrades philosophy better than its replacement does. And I'll say it again, I like some of the new upgrades. The new slot 2 engine+rudder upgrade is great. The new torpedo upgrade for slot 3 is interesting and offers a meaningful tradeoff with gun dispersion. The new slot 6 AAA upgrade is interesting, and possibly powerful enough to tempt some away from reload or range, though I don't think I've equipped it yet on anything.

 

Anyway, what do y'all think about it? Why was the slot 3 AA upgrade changed, specifically? Why isn't there a way to get a persistent +2 flak clouds bonus? Or to get it at all on tier 5 to 8 ships?

 

Is the current slightly toned down flak, plus nerfed slingshot better for the game than before? It seems like nerfing the flak potential of tier 5 ships would be bad for the general game experience. But, I'm not a game developer. /shrug

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The new AAGM1 in slot 3 is only really useful in combination with the MAAF skill to offset the priority sector cooldown penalty that comes with MAAF. The MAAF skill is only really useful for low AA DPS ships.

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My guess is the old slot 3 AA upgrade was removed in favor of the new because the latter helps counterplay against aircraft where as the former was just a passive buff to flack bubbles.  All of the recent game developments in AA (priority sector) are built around driving counterplay while moving away from invincible passive AA bubbles (nerfs to DFAA, AFT, etc.).

There are a few instances where the new slot 3 upgrade could be useful.  For example if you had a ship with weak AA (e.g. Somers), you could still get decent AA performance if your captain learned the Massive AA skill.  The new slot 3 AA upgrade would synergize nicely with this setup with the 20% faster cooldown to the buffed instantaneous damage.  

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20 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

The new AAGM1 in slot 3 is only really useful in combination with the MAAF skill to offset the priority sector cooldown penalty that comes with MAAF. The MAAF skill is only really useful for low AA DPS ships.

I'm currently working my way up the UK DD tech tree.  I am considering using it on these ships for random gameplay especially at the lower tiers where carriers are ubiquitous and often two per fleet.

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Basically because DDs sometimes could hit CVs with their only defense aka flak and WG cannot allow DDs to defend themselves from sky cancer or anything else really, almost everyone agreed that we have way too many radar and they are adding 8 more 12km radar to the game at once... 

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9 minutes ago, XurMP said:

Basically because DDs sometimes could hit CVs with their only defense aka flak and WG cannot allow DDs to defend themselves from sky cancer or anything else really, almost everyone agreed that we have way too many radar and they are adding 8 more 12km radar to the game at once... 

WG can add 100 12km Radar Cruisers next patch and it would not matter overall.  Because there's only so many Cruisers in a given match.

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39 minutes ago, Maddau said:

My guess is the old slot 3 AA upgrade was removed in favor of the new because the latter helps counterplay against aircraft where as the former was just a passive buff to flack bubbles.  All of the recent game developments in AA (priority sector) are built around driving counterplay while moving away from invincible passive AA bubbles (nerfs to DFAA, AFT, etc.).

There are a few instances where the new slot 3 upgrade could be useful.  For example if you had a ship with weak AA (e.g. Somers), you could still get decent AA performance if your captain learned the Massive AA skill.  The new slot 3 AA upgrade would synergize nicely with this setup with the 20% faster cooldown to the buffed instantaneous damage.  

You are talking about ships with worthless AA, so in practice is doesn't matter one bit.  The CV will get all the attacks in that it wants to.  The CV would have to fly around you for minutes at a time for you to even shoot down 1 or 2 planes.  With that said, let's just agree that the only ships that really benefit for the new skill are BBs.  DDs that actually had decent AA get hosed again, Groz in particular.  Anybody noticing a trend here?

DFAA is just as much an active counterplay as priority sector, maybe even more so since it is limited use for most ships.  The problem here (and it is a common theme) is the lack of communication from WGHQ on their reasons and what they are trying to achieve, leaving us players confused and irritated.

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15 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

WG can add 100 12km Radar Cruisers next patch and it would not matter overall.  Because there's only so many Cruisers in a given match.

I sorta disagree.  You usually have 4 or 5 ca/cl in a match.  In T8-10 I'd say avg is around 2-3 radar ships (you have the odd MO, too) watch that go up to 3-4 or more, especially as everybody starts to grind the new lines.  And make no mistake, this absolutely contributes to the campy play style as it is usually a bad idea for DDs to push deep into a bunch of radar.

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6 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

I sorta disagree.  You usually have 4 or 5 ca/cl in a match.  In T8-10 I'd say avg is around 2-3 radar ships (you have the odd MO, too) watch that go up to 3-4 or more, especially as everybody starts to grind the new lines.  And make no mistake, this absolutely contributes to the campy play style as it is usually a bad idea for DDs to push deep into a bunch of radar.

The worst it ever got was the US Cruiser Split when everyone was trying out their new Tier VIII Clevelands.

After that spike of Radar Cruisers, it disappeared.

I still remember the DD crowd howling DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM from all the Radar Cruisers, but everyone with any sense of sanity knew already that was temporary.

In addition, not everyone of those Cruiser players like playing Radar Cruisers.  Some hate playing USN & RU Cruisers which is where almost all Radar Cruisers reside in, even Moskva, Des Moines, and prefer stuff like Hindenburg, Henri IV, etc.  So even with theoretical 100 new Radar Cruisers next patch, it's not going to be a big deal.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, wjp120 said:

Anyway, what do y'all think about it? Why was the slot 3 AA upgrade changed, specifically? Why isn't there a way to get a persistent +2 flak clouds bonus? Or to get it at all on tier 5 to 8 ships?

Probably because it was too good agasint bad CV players, we cant have that... so WG nerfed to module to the ground, like they did with AA all around... we cant have ships defending themselves against planes, can we? 

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So glad this has turned into another rant about how overpowered and evil CVs are and how screwed DDs are, blah, blah, blah.  :Smile_sceptic:

Edited by Maddau
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2 hours ago, XurMP said:

almost everyone agreed that we have way too many radar and they are adding 8 more 12km radar to the game at once... 

I'm confused where you are getting this from.

195170942_WG_SPB_WoWs_Infographic_Supert

 

The RU 'CL' line is the main line.

Starting from T5 the 'CL' line is as follows;

New T5 Kotovsky 4x2 152mm with no RADAR

Existing T6 Budyonny 3x3 152mm with no RADAR

Existing T7 Shchors 4x3 152mm with no RADAR

Existing T8 Chapayev 4x3 152mm with existing RADAR

Existing T9 Dm Donskoi 4x3 180mm with existing RADAR

New T10 Alexkander Nevsky 4x3 180mm with new RADAR

 

The CA line is as follows;

New T8 Tallin 4x3 180mm with new RADAR

New T9 Riga 3x3 220mm with new RADAR/Fighter/Spotter

New T10 Petropavlovsk 3x3 220mm with new RADAR 

 

New premium T5 Mikoyan 3x2 180mm with no RADAR

New premium T8 Ochakov 4x2 152mm with new RADAR

New premium T8 Petr Bagration 3x3 180mm with no RADAR 

Test ship Voroshilov which is a copy of T5 Kirov to test changes for it becoming a premium. Extremely doubtful it will have RADAR.

 

So I count 9 new RU cruisers and only 5 will have RADAR with one of those having the option for fighters/spotters instead.

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considering how AA exclusive modules have little to no real impact on the match outside dealing with 1 type of ship that is hard capped to 3 per team max with the average being 1 then AA modules need to be grossly overpowered or offer other benefits.

So either give it something realy good like +50% sector reinforcement damage boost or bake it with secondary related modules for instance:

 

Secondary Battery Modification 1 renamed to Auxiliary Armaments acquisition  

  • +20% to secondary battery maximum firing range.
  • -20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells.
  • +20% to  AA guns range 

 

Edited by pepe_trueno
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7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

WG can add 100 12km Radar Cruisers next patch and it would not matter overall.  Because there's only so many Cruisers in a given match.

Yes but actually no

 

There are cruisers that don't have radar so adding more cruisers that carry radar basically will mean that you will see radar more often, specially if they remain as strong as they seem to be... Let's not forget that the new CV will start testing soon so we are going to have new planes and more radars pursuing DDs... 

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4 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

I'm confused where you are getting this from.

195170942_WG_SPB_WoWs_Infographic_Supert

 

The RU 'CL' line is the main line.

Starting from T5 the 'CL' line is as follows;

New T5 Kotovsky 4x2 152mm with no RADAR

Existing T6 Budyonny 3x3 152mm with no RADAR

Existing T7 Shchors 4x3 152mm with no RADAR

Existing T8 Chapayev 4x3 152mm with existing RADAR

Existing T9 Dm Donskoi 4x3 180mm with existing RADAR

New T10 Alexkander Nevsky 4x3 180mm with new RADAR

 

The CA line is as follows;

New T8 Tallin 4x3 180mm with new RADAR

New T9 Riga 3x3 220mm with new RADAR/Fighter/Spotter

New T10 Petropavlovsk 3x3 220mm with new RADAR 

 

New premium T5 Mikoyan 3x2 180mm with no RADAR

New premium T8 Ochakov 4x2 152mm with new RADAR

New premium T8 Petr Bagration 3x3 180mm with no RADAR 

Test ship Voroshilov which is a copy of T5 Kirov to test changes for it becoming a premium. Extremely doubtful it will have RADAR.

 

So I count 9 new RU cruisers and only 5 will have RADAR with one of those having the option for fighters/spotters instead.

5? My bad, I remembered wrong then

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