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CapnCazuul

General questions

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Hi, I've been playing for a few months but there are still some things I don't get. I play as a BB mainly (I know - boo, hiss) and I mainly play a few hours on the weekends. Here are a few questions for which I haven't been able to find answers on the forum.

1 - Can DDs and/or Cruisers see opposing DDs any sooner than BBs can? 

2 - What exactly constitutes "pushing [a cap] properly" ? I see this complaint often i.e. "If only we had some players who knew how to push properly."  Usually I am not trying to cap because I'm busy trying to engage the other BBs and cruisers and getting hosed by HE, which leads me to...

3 - What is the deal with islands and smoke, can BBs and cruisers hide in smoke made by a DD, sure doesn't seem that way to me when I'm the one trying to hide, but sure seems like there are a lot of cruisers hosing me down with HE from behind islands/smoke that I can never target. Or is it just down to radar? Which brings me to my last question...

4 - How can I tell which ships have radar as far as the tech tree? Or are they just premium ships?

Thanks for any answers. Fun game but I would like to get better.

 

Edited by sirwill1972
change "other" to "opposing"

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37 minutes ago, sirwill1972 said:

Hi, I've been playing for a few months but there are still some things I don't get. I play as a BB mainly (I know - boo, hiss) and I mainly play a few hours on the weekends. Here are a few questions for which I haven't been able to find answers on the forum.

1 - Can DDs and/or Cruisers see opposing DDs any sooner than BBs can? 

No the detection range is the same for each DD. But other DDs and cruisers are faster, so head on the DD may not have time to turn and run, so get spotted. 

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2 - What exactly constitutes "pushing [a cap] properly" ? I see this complaint often i.e. "If only we had some players who knew how to push properly."  Usually I am not trying to cap because I'm busy trying to engage the other BBs and cruisers and getting hosed by HE, which leads me to...

This game is all about controlled aggression - the right balance between aggression and escape route. It takes experience and planning to do well. Too early, too many enemies can shoot you and you die. Too late, and you won’t get enough points to win. 

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3 - What is the deal with islands and smoke, can BBs and cruisers hide in smoke made by a DD, sure doesn't seem that way to me when I'm the one trying to hide, but sure seems like there are a lot of cruisers hosing me down with HE from behind islands/smoke that I can never target. Or is it just down to radar? Which brings me to my last question...

In battle, push H - it will show your detection range when firing in smoke  it’s based on your gun calibre and General detectability of the ship  - cos battleships have large values for both, smoke doesn’t obscure you much  but cruisers are medium in both, so are detected only at shorter ranges. Destroyers are even more so. 

 

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4 - How can I tell which ships have radar as far as the tech tree? Or are they just premium ships?

Thanks for any answers. Fun game but I would like to get better.

 

Radar ships just have to be learnt. Essentially, American, Russian, British tech tree cruisers from T8 onwards can have radar.  British cruisers tend to use smoke though. T7 American or British premium cruisers have radar. Then some random ships like Missouri have radar too. 

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1) When a DD is spotted, it is seen by everyone within their view range. A BBs view range is most of if not all the map, so not an issue for you and me as much. If the enemy DD is radared, the radaring ship sees it right away, but everyone else must wait 6 seconds for him to appear (however his vessel does show on the minimap).

2) When you are involved with caps in a BB, make sure you are tanking properly, have support (no yoloing), and are sharing your damage (both taking your fair share, but not getting focused. Capping Bbs is an advanced skill you will gather over time, but its easy enough to know when you should be in a cap and when you shouldn't.

3) BBs can hide in smoke, but you have to know your detection mechanics. A DD firing from smoke only will be seen from maybe 2-3km, whereas a BB is seen when firing from MUCH further (usually around your detection range when you are not firing). If you are trying to hide in smoke, don't shoot, and remember your detection bloom does not shrink for 20 seconds after you fire your main battery. So if you shoot, you will be seen for at least 20 seconds assuming anything has line of sight to you. You will not be shooting from smoke like a cruiser in a BB. Ever. Use it only to go dark and heal up if you can find an ally who knows teamplay

4) Just gotta know. Tier 8+ Russian and US tech trees, British tech tree CLs and Pan Asian DDs have it as an option instead of smoke. Few premiums here and there. A full list of ships by consumable can be found at: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Consumables

 

Also check the wiki if you get a chance. Some light reading on spotting mechanics can go a long way https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

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1- No. Detection works the same for every ship in the game. Each ship has a detection radius. If any enemy ship is within that radius and has line of sight (no islands or smoke) then your ship gets detected.

2- Welcome to the hardest concept in the game. Short answer, being close enough to stop the enemy from taking it. Note this doesn't mean being in the cap. BBs and cruisers should be close enough that they can shoot any ship that are trying to cap effectively, as well as cruisers that are shooting your DDs who are trying to cap. If you have an island or two in the way, they you're not supporting. The complicated answer is down to positioning. You need to position your ship so that you can best perform your role for the team without dying. For a BB this means finding a solid position where you can't be easily flanked, can shoot effectively over as large an area as possible (should include at least one cap), and can push forward when needed. This is the hardest thing to learn, but it's the single most important thing for winning. When you see the term map control, this is what we're referring to, the ability of a team to control who can go in the key areas of the map. Thus don't go to far flanks, put yourself behind islands, camp the back line, etc. You should always be able to provide effective fire on a key central part of the map. With DDs, spotting and screening are also important here. This sometimes means not going after the largest concentration of enemy ships. If they're all heading for the border, don't follow them there. If you do, not only do you give up map control, but you'll also likely die and your team will probably not completely support you so you'll be outnumbered. If you take control of the center and wait for them to come to you then two things can happen. Either they don't try to take the caps and center, in which case they lose. Or they have to push into your team who have a strong central position, and it's very very hard to beat the team with map control. Winning in world of warships isn't about damaging enemy ships, it's about taking control of the map and damage is merely a means to that end.

3-This is probably you being new. The answer is yes and no. Islands are the easier one. First you have to be able to shoot over them, and position accordingly. Second, you have to have someone else spotting for you. And third you have to make sure no one on the red team will have line of sight when you open fire. Remember that detection range I mentioned earlier? When you fire your guns, it blooms out to the maximum range for 20sec. So you slide up behind an island unspotted, and start hosing down a BB, but their DD is off to your flank, and when your detection range blooms he spots you. And if you can shoot over the island, chances are someone can shoot back. So using islands is very useful, but you need to be able to position right. Also, the only ships who should really be using islands like that are rapid firing cruisers (USN and RN mainly). BBs should not be behind islands, part of their job is tanking.

Smokescreens are trickier. In smokescreen your detection range goes down to 2km (default detection range) for any ship...until you fire your guns. At that point your detection range blooms, but not to the full gun range. The bloom distance in smoke depends on the gun size. So DDs and CLs have low bloom ranges, 3-5km. BBs are more on the scale of 15+km. This is intended, ships who need smoke can use it, but it's very hard to use smoke as a BB or CA. What I suspect is happening with you is you're shooting too close to the enemy from smoke, and they spot you when your guns bloom. BBs and CAs really can't use smoke, and be careful with CLs. The gun bloom range on everyship is given in port, definitely something you should know.

4-General rule is that T8+ USN and RU cruisers have radar, along with a bunch of premiums. So Cleveland, Seattle, Wooster, Baltimore, Buffalo, Des Moines, Chappy, Donskoi, and Moskva. In addition there are the premiums Atlanta, Indianapolis, and Wichita (off the top of my head). USN CLs have 9km range, CAs have 10km, both lines have 40sec duration. RU ships have 12km for 25sec. Indy and Atlanta have 8.5 for 25sec. The premium BB Missouri has 9.5km for 40sec. Those are the main ones. RN CLs T8+ can also carry it, but they have to give up smoke, so it's not common. The T7 RN CL Belfast has HE, smoke, hydro, and radar. This combination makes it completely OP, and so it is no longer obtainable, but you still see them floating around. If you ever meet a Belfast in a DD, run away fast. Finally there are a few DDs with radar. USS Black has it, but she's pretty rare. The Pan-asian DDs T8+ have the option, but have to give up smoke. The new Swedish (ahem, Pan-European) line has radar with no other option. I believe that is only T8+. That's pretty much it, I may have forgotten a few premiums. But basically USN and RU cruisers, Swedish DDs, T8+. High tier USN premium cruisers, and a couple other premiums. Always good to know the radar ships. The fact that I can pull this info off the top of my head tells you how important it is.

 

A great resource is the world of warships wiki. https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Warships

This has all the info on all the game mechanics. Just look for the area you have a question on, and there's an article explaining it. I suggest you give the Detection section a good read. Look up radar there, it should have a comprehensive list of radar ships. Any question and your first check should be the wiki. They also have descriptions for every single ship in game.

If you have other questions, that's what the forums are for. Lot of really knowledgeable people, and most of us are pretty friendly. If you ask politely, you'll get good responses. Just remember ranting is just going to get replies in kind. But welcome to WOWS, keep on learning, and good luck in battle (unless you're playing against me:Smile_Default:):Smile_honoring:

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1: all ships can spot each other equally, spotting range is determined by the spotting range of your ship, when it intersects with any enemy. However sneakier ships will spot each other at closer ranges because of this, making cruisers and dds better at sneaking up on dds than bbs, and starting close range knife fights.

2: as a bb, your job is not to be in the cap circle  (due to capping mechanics , you taking damage takes cap points away from your allies, so its actually counterproductive) but instead being near it or a close flank absorbing shots for your team. That most bbs hide in the back these days is a different problem...

3: cruisers have a bigger smoke firing penalty than dds, and bbs have a HUGE penalty.  If used to be back in the day that all ships had same range, but no longer. You can see your smoke firing penalty by pressing H. As for shooting over islands, generally low velocity guns can do it, such as us 127 and 152mms. For battleships,  you can fire over islands but only at extended ranges.

4: All US and USSR mainline cruisers tier 8+. UK CL tier 9+, but they have to give up smoke for it, so it's rare. High tier pan Asian dds also have a weaker radar. The tier 7 us prems atlanta/flint, and boise and Indianapolis. There's more premiums, but it gets more convoluted.

 

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1 hour ago, sirwill1972 said:

Here are a few questions

  1. Not individually, as per the detection mechanics described above.  Actually, the question isn't very meaningful because what they see, you see.  So even if a DD did see another before your lookouts could pick it up, you'd still "see" it when the DD did.  https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection
  2. [some excellent answers above]
  3. Sure they can hide in smoke.  And they're out of sight - until they fire their guns.  Plus, smoke screens are torpedo magnets.  BBs in particular should not try to use smoke that way.  https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Smoke_Screens
  4. https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Consumables#Surveillance_Radar  Look up the ship.  Remember the ship. 
    • Basically, Tier VIII+ USN, VMF, RN cruisers, PA DDs and a few others (notably Atlanta)

 

Edited by iDuckman
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Thanks very much to all who have responded. Each response has been helpful. Seems this game has a very good community.

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1 hour ago, sirwill1972 said:

2 - What exactly constitutes "pushing [a cap] properly" ?

Technically, one should wait until there is a BB and a couple of cruisers close enough to provide cover fire and then call for radar or a CV to spot the enemy before pushing a cap. Or, you can do something like this, which sometimes also works.

 

Edited by Snargfargle

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"Short answer mode enabled"

1. Every ship has a fixed minimun distance to spot it. Check port view, concealment value.

2. It is something between not dying stupidly for being too reckless and not letting your teammates die for bieng too cautious. Don't worry, you'll get it in time, just play the game and have fun.

3. Yes, in theory you'll sit on the smoke blasting things while your friendly DD spots stuff for you to shoot at, just remember cruisers are more squishy and benefit more from the protection than a BB. 

4. Check WoWS Wiki.

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