IFHE All Night Long

[LittleWhiteMouse]

Here's the numbers you need to know for IFHE.  To see if you should use IFHE in the build of your current captain, just scroll down this list of the appropriate ship type and cross-reference the size of your ship's armament.

-EDIT-  For those looking for the reasoning behind this summary:

Spoiler

 

My goal with this list was to create a very basic yes/no binary for the typical World of Warships player. It is NOT nuanced.

The IFHE rework has changed IFHE from a brainless "if you have the skill points, always take it". Heck, you could slap it on 203mm guns previously and it provided a small benefit in select cases (even if this was largely laughable). There was almost no drawback. That's changed now and it comes down to a question of what's more valuable -- fire or direct damage?

Generally speaking, direct damage is always going to be more valuable. So long as there were enough targets on the menu opened up by IFHE, and it wasn't a target that was going to get the average user killed by engaging it (like say, putting IFHE on a destroyer in order to engage radar-heavy American cruisers with guns) I gave it a "yes". This does leave out an enormous range of situational / expert cases where IFHE is a benefit for select ships. Examples of this include putting IFHE on select heavy cruisers in order to punish Soviet battleships. It's worth keeping in mind that the needs for a limited Matchmaking engagement, such as in Ranked or Clan Battles will put more or less stress on the need for IFHE depending on the targets present.

Again, I must stress that this short summary is incredibly simplified and it had to be for brevity's sake. I have literal pages of armour values, diagrams and charts mapping all of this crap, but presenting it would have only confused people who were looking for a simple yes/no binary.

I could chat your ear off forever about the armour changes. Kuma got boned and the tier VI heavy cruisers were the biggest winners. Graf Spee's armour changes in partciular were fascinating with Huanghe and Perth getting artificially buffed over Leander which is weird, but neat. However dumping all of this information into the summary article, while it would allow players to better make nuanced judgements for themselves, it would have caused the following problems:

1. Information overload for the layman.

2. Taken far too damn long to write and present.

A longer article discussing the merits of IFHE is definitely worthwhile, but making it comprehensive would be the length of a college thesis. I mean, seriously -- take Smolensk as just an example. You can't talk about the merits of IFHE on Smolensk without also discussing her ballistics, range and AP performance. The increase in structural armour affects her AP as well as her HE, so looking at armour layout of every single bloody ship out there would also have to be taken into account. Just putting that article together could easily top 2,000 words and necessitate graphs mapping ballistics, dispersion, fire chance, AP penetration and armour layouts of some of the problem ships she'd be facing. Now consider also discussing Henri IV and Hindenburg, never mind every other questionable case from Atlanta to British 120mm to the Japanese duckies or Massachusetts' & German secondaries.

There's a lot of good conversations to be had here and I do not intend for this short summary to be the final word. It's just there for those who don't want to invest the time into thinking about IFHE and wanted a quick answer.

 

Destroyers

Spoiler

Tier II - IFHE is not needed.
Tier III - IFHE is not needed.
Tier IV - IFHE is not needed.
Tier V - IFHE is not needed when top tier, but is useful when facing higher tiered opponents.
Tier VI - Generally speaking, IFHE is effective for all gun calibers, but of less value when facing tier VIII opponents.  120mm guns are especially taxed when bottom tier.
Tier VII - Generally speaking, IFHE is effective for all gun calibers, but of less value when facing tier VIII & IX opponents.  120mm guns are especially taxed when bottom tier.
Tier VIII

• Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE
• 120mm - Not recommended
• 127mm - Effective when top tier.  IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships.
• 128mm - Effective when top tier.  IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships.
• 130mm & 139mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VI & VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VI through IX.
• 150mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VI & VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VI through IX.

Tier IX

• Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE
• 113mm - Not recommended
• 120mm - Not recommended
• 127mm - Not recommended
• 128mm - Not recommended
• 130mm & 139mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VII through IX, but take it or leave it.

Tier X

• Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE
• 113mm - Not recommended.
• 120mm - Not recommended
• 127mm - Not recommended
• 128mm - Not recommended
• 130mm - Not recommended
• 139mm - Not recommended

-Edit-  Allow me to add a little caveat here for destroyers.  Understandably, if you're not playing a gunship that uses its guns often, IFHE isn't going to be worthwhile.  So don't go forking out 4 skill points for IFHE on a Minekaze, you goofs.

Cruisers

Spoiler

Tier I - Stop it, you twink.
Tier II - IFHE is not needed.
Tier III - IFHE is not needed.
Tier IV - IFHE is not needed.
Tier V - When top tier, IFHE isn't necessary, but it becomes very important against higher tiered opponents.  Don't take it if you're German.
Tier VI

• 150mm - Not needed due to increased penetration of Nurnberg & Makarov.
• 152mm - Take IFHE.  Reduced effectiveness against tier VIII+ battleships.
• 180mm - Take IFHE.
• 203mm - Don't take IFHE on 203mm armed ships.
• 283mm - Put IFHE down, Spee.

Tier VII

• 127mm - Effective when top tier.  IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships.
• 152mm - Take IFHE.  Reduced effectiveness against tier VIII+ battleships.
• 203mm -  Stop it.  Get some help.
• 210mm - Yorck is German.  What are you doing?  You don't need IFHE.

Tier VIII

• 152mm - Take IFHE.
• 155mm - Take IFHE.  Mogami 155mm is one of the biggest winners with the IFHE rework.
• 203mm - I am going to hurt you.

Tier IX

• 152mm - Take IFHE
• 180mm - Take IFHE.
• 203mm - ...
• 305mm - Now you're just being silly.
• 310mm - Shut up, boobie-lady.

Tier X

• 127mm - Not recommended
• 130mm - Not recommended
• 152mm - Take IFHE
• 203mm - Where did I leave my chain-axe?
• 220mm - Not recommended
• 234mm - Not recommended
• 240mm - Not recommended
• 305mm - Nope.
• 310mm - Also nope.

Battleship Secondaries

Spoiler

Secondaries only really get good enough to spec into from tier VII+ so we'll start there.

Tier VII

• Nagato - Nope
• Ashitaka - Nope
• Colorado - Very no.
• Sinop - Nope
• Poltava - Shame on you, no.
• Gneisenau - Nope, her HE pen is good enough without it.
• Scharnhorst - If you want to be twinky and have her 105mm penetrate battleship extremities for the memes, go for it.  But this is more of a joke than actually needed.
• King Georgge V - Nope
• Hood - Nope
• Nelson - Nope
• Duke of York - Nope
• Lyon - Very no.

Tier VIII

• Amagi - Nope
• Kii - Her 100mm look SOOOO good, but their range sucks monkey butts, so they're not worth spec'ing into.  Nope.
• North Carolina - Nope
• Alabama - Nope
• Massachusetts - It's only effective when she's top tier.  Otherwise, the use for this falls off dramatically.  It's no longer really good.
• Vladivostok - God no.
• Lenin - Leave these neckbeard secondaries out of it.
• Bismarck - Again, the 105s could use it but you don't NEED it.  Use those skill points elsewhere.
• Tirpitz - As per her famous big sister.
• Monarch - HAHAHA, very no.
• Vanguard - Also no.
• Richelieu - Nope.
• Gascogne - MAYBE if you brawl often with Gascogne.  Actually, it would be fascinating to meet someone who simply plays Gascogne often.  Nope otherwise.
• Roma - Nope.

Tier IX

• Izumo - God, no.
• Musashi - HA!  No.
• Iowa - Nope.
• Missouri - Nope
• Georgia - Pass here too.  You're just not facing enough lower-tiered ships where her penetration threshold works.  Like the German ships, you can go for it if you want to giggle a bit, but it's not worthwhile.
• Sovetsky Soyuz - Nope
• Friedrich der Große - As before with other German BBs.  It's only fun for the memes, but it's not needed.  They're good without it.
• Lion - Very no on toast.
• Alsace - Nope.
• Jean Bart - Nope.
• Bajie - Nope.

Tier X

• Yamato - No.
• Montana - Also no.
• Ohio - Also also no.
• Kremlin - Also also also no.
• Großer Kurfurst - Also also also also no.
• Conqueror - Also also also also also no. 
• Thunderer - Also also also also also also no.
• Republique - Also also also also also also also no.
• Bourgogne - Say it with me:  Also also also also also also also also no.

I suppose I could have just "TL-DR" - if German with 105mm at tier VII+, sure, otherwise Also No."

There you go.  Your mileage will vary on select ships, but these should suffice for players who have reset their skills.

 

[Lert]

Normally I save these for reviews, but I know how much work went into this.

[Chezik]

Thank you very much LWM, you are credit to team. Wait, wrong game. Still, thank you for putting in this work!

[Torpin]

[DrHolmes52]

I gave you a funny for the comments, but +1

[AJTP89]

So my USN CLs are staying in IFHE. Cool. Atlanta is shares a captain with Helena, so she gets IFHE too.

Basically my CLs are getting a nerf, got it. Along with Montana.

[Skpstr]

@LittleWhiteMouse, where you say, "reduced effectiveness against T8+ BBs", does that mean, more or less, "focus on the superstructure"?

[S16_Hunter]

Thank you very much, this makes it much easier to figure stuff out.

.  

[Parliament_Funkadelic]

[LittleWhiteMouse]

7 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

@LittleWhiteMouse, where you say, "reduced effectiveness against T8+ BBs", does that mean, more or less, "focus on the superstructure"?

Pretty much, yeah.  Depending on the ballistics of the gun in question this is easier / more difficult.   A variety of factors will complicate this further, most importantly your ability to aim, the size of their superstructures and how fast they're moving.   If you are at doing this, there are some guns where you can go without IFHE.  The Japanese 100mm/65s are a good example.

[Urza3142]

Thank you for the hard work!

[Eckarbeiter]

16 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Here's the numbers you need to know for IFHE.  To see if you should use IFHE in the build of your current captain, just scroll down this list of the appropriate ship type and cross-reference the size of your ship's armament.

Destroyers

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Tier II - IFHE is not needed.
Tier III - IFHE is not needed.
Tier IV - IFHE is not needed.
Tier V - IFHE is not needed when top tier, but is useful when facing higher tiered opponents.
Tier VI - Generally speaking, IFHE is effective for all gun calibers, but of less value when facing tier VIII opponents.  120mm guns are especially taxed when bottom tier.
Tier VII - Generally speaking, IFHE is effective for all gun calibers, but of less value when facing tier VIII & IX opponents.  120mm guns are especially taxed when bottom tier.
Tier VIII

• Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE
• 120mm - Not recommended
• 127mm - Effective when top tier.  IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships.
• 128mm - Effective when top tier.  IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships.
• 130mm & 139mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VI & VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VI through IX.
• 150mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VI & VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VI through IX.

Tier IX

• Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE
• 113mm - Not recommended
• 120mm - Not recommended
• 127mm - Not recommended
• 128mm - Not recommended
• 130mm & 139mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VII through IX, but take it or leave it.

Tier X

• Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE
• 113mm - Not recommended.
• 120mm - Not recommended
• 127mm - Not recommended
• 128mm - Not recommended
• 130mm - Not recommended
• 139mm - Not recommended

-Edit-  Allow me to add a little caveat here for destroyers.  Understandably, if you're not playing a gunship that uses its guns often, IFHE isn't going to be worthwhile.  So don't go forking out 4 skill points for IFHE on a Minekaze, you goofs.

Cruisers

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Tier I - Stop it, you twink.
Tier II - IFHE is not needed.
Tier III - IFHE is not needed.
Tier IV - IFHE is not needed.
Tier V - When top tier, IFHE isn't necessary, but it becomes very important against higher tiered opponents.  Don't take it if you're German.
Tier VI

• 150mm - Not needed due to increased penetration of Konigsberg & Makarov.
• 152mm - Take IFHE.  Reduced effectiveness against tier VIII+ battleships.
• 180mm - Take IFHE.
• 203mm - Don't take IFHE on 203mm armed ships.
• 283mm - Put IFHE down, Spee.

Tier VII

• 127mm - Effective when top tier.  IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships.
• 152mm - Take IFHE.  Reduced effectiveness against tier VIII+ battleships.
• 203mm -  Stop it.  Get some help.
• 210mm - Yorck is German.  What are you doing?  You don't need IFHE.

Tier VIII

• 152mm - Take IFHE.
• 155mm - Take IFHE.  Mogami 155mm is one of the biggest winners with the IFHE rework.
• 203mm - I am going to hurt you.

Tier IX

• 152mm - Take IFHE
• 180mm - Take IFHE.
• 203mm - ...
• 305mm - Now you're just being silly.
• 310mm - Shut up, boobie-lady.

Tier X

• 127mm - Not recommended
• 130mm - Not recommended
• 152mm - Take IFHE
• 203mm - Where did I leave my chain-axe?
• 220mm - Not recommended
• 234mm - Not recommended
• 240mm - Not recommended
• 305mm - Nope.
• 310mm - Also nope.

 

 

Battleship Secondaries

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Secondaries only really get good enough to spec into from tier VII+ so we'll start there.

Tier VII

• Nagato - Nope
• Ashitaka - Nope
• Colorado - Very no.
• Sinop - Nope
• Poltava - Shame on you, no.
• Gneisenau - Nope, her HE pen is good enough without it.
• Scharnhorst - If you want to be twinky and have her 105mm penetrate battleship extremities for the memes, go for it.  But this is more of a joke than actually needed.
• King Georgge V - Nope
• Hood - Nope
• Nelson - Nope
• Duke of York - Nope
• Lyon - Very no.

Tier VIII

• Amagi - Nope
• Kii - Her 100mm look SOOOO good, but their range sucks monkey butts, so they're not worth spec'ing into.  Nope.
• North Carolina - Nope
• Alabama - Nope
• Massachusetts - It's only effective when she's top tier.  Otherwise, the use for this falls off dramatically.  It's no longer really good.
• Vladivostok - God no.
• Lenin - Leave these neckbeard secondaries out of it.
• Bismarck - Again, the 105s could use it but you don't NEED it.  Use those skill points elsewhere.
• Tirpitz - As per her famous big sister.
• Monarch - HAHAHA, very no.
• Vanguard - Also no.
• Richelieu - Nope.
• Gascogne - MAYBE if you brawl often with Gascogne.  Actually, it would be fascinating to meet someone who simply plays Gascogne often.  Nope otherwise.
• Roma - Nope.

Tier IX

• Izumo - God, no.
• Musashi - HA!  No.
• Iowa - Nope.
• Missouri - Nope
• Georgia - Pass here too.  You're just not facing enough lower-tiered ships where her penetration threshold works.  Like the German ships, you can go for it if you want to giggle a bit, but it's not worthwhile.
• Sovetsky Soyuz - Nope
• Friedrich der Große - As before with other German BBs.  It's only fun for the memes, but it's not needed.  They're good without it.
• Lion - Very no on toast.
• Alsace - Nope.
• Jean Bart - Nope.
• Bajie - Nope.

Tier X

• Yamato - No.
• Montana - Also no.
• Ohio - Also also no.
• Kremlin - Also also also no.
• Großer Kurfurst - Also also also also no.
• Conqueror - Also also also also also no. 
• Thunderer - Also also also also also also no.
• Republique - Also also also also also also also no.
• Bourgogne - Say it with me:  Also also also also also also also also no.

I suppose I could have just "TL-DR" - if German with 105mm at tier VII+, sure, otherwise Also No."

 

There you go.  Your mileage will vary on select ships, but these should suffice for players who have reset their skills.

 

THANK YOU for all that you do LWM.  

[Edgecase]

Thanks for the quick lookup guide!

Though, I’d argue T10 130mm cruisers (read: Smolensk) really should get IFHE so that they can fullpen cruisers. Thanks to some convenient rounding (read: NOT Russian Bias!), 130mm defeats both 25 and 27mm plating.

[KilljoyCutter]

Thank you @LittleWhiteMouse

 

 

 

 

[USMCGal]

Thank you for all of your hard work! 

[KilljoyCutter]

So if I did not have IFHE on my mid-tier CL captains before, there's really no reason to get it now, if I'm reading this right... just take DE and continue to fire HE at upper portions of targets, and understand that those targets are a little less vulnerable than they were before thanks to the silly tier-based armor changes. 

[Slayer_Jesse]

What about Atlanta/Flint's 127's at tier 7?

[Col_Nasty]

[Skpstr]

5 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

So if I did not have IFHE on my mid-tier CL captains before, there's really no reason to get it now, if I'm reading this right... just take DE and continue to fire HE at upper portions of targets

Yup, just play like you did in 2015 lol.

[tfcas119]

2 minutes ago, Slayer_Jesse said:

What about Atlanta/Flint's 127's at tier 7?

under T7 cruisers is this...

30 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

127mm - Effective when top tier.  IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships.

Sad part is that T7 is doesn't really see top tier MM much anymore, so the only guaranteed way to be top tier T7 is running Narai.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

3 minutes ago, Slayer_Jesse said:

What about Atlanta/Flint's 127's at tier 7?

 

31 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Tier VII

• 127mm - Effective when top tier.  IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships.
• 152mm - Take IFHE.  Reduced effectiveness against tier VIII+ battleships.
• 203mm -  Stop it.  Get some help.
• 210mm - Yorck is German.  What are you doing?  You don't need IFHE.

 

[BoS_Mud]

8 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Thanks for the quick lookup guide!

Though, I’d argue T10 130mm cruisers (read: Smolensk) really should get IFHE so that they can fullpen cruisers. Thanks to some convenient rounding (read: NOT Russian Bias!), 130mm defeats both 25 and 27mm plating.

I concur on the Khaba's 130mm as well. Played some test rounds with and without IFHE and the damage difference was NOTICABLE when IFHE was off. Thinks salvos that do 10-15% of what IFHE salvos do without a significant gain in fires.

[MartyStouffer]

...

[iDuckman]

33 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

• 203mm - Don't take IFHE on 203mm armed ships.

Tier VII

• 203mm -  Stop it.  Get some help.

Tier VIII

• 203mm - I am going to hurt you.

Tier IX

• 203mm - ...

Tier X

• 203mm - Where did I leave my chain-axe?

Okay!  Okay!  I get the message!  <shudder>

[LittleWhiteMouse]

6 minutes ago, BoS_Mud said:

I concur on the Khaba's 130mm as well. Played some test rounds with and without IFHE and the damage difference was NOTICABLE when IFHE was off. Thinks salvos that do 10-15% of what IFHE salvos do without a significant gain in fires.

The problem is that you can't full pen all cruisers anymore as too many cruisers had their armour values buffed. 30mm is the new 25mm/27mm which 130mm guns can't penetrate with IFHE.  Yes, there are still some holes you can poke with your 130mm but it's not as widespread as it once was and those skill points might be better spent elsewhere.  Besides, 130mm AP shells are phenomenal.  Use 'em.

If you guys want to see how the armour values changed, lemme know.  It will take a couple of hours to put something legible together from my crumpled, only-makes-sense-to me notepad notes.