Aircraft/Anti Aircraft

[Windhover118]

I didn’t find any topics about this yet so I thought I would make one. Anyway, aircraft carriers are going to be one of the main ship types and will obviously use aircraft as their main form of offense. Anyway I got to wondering how they are going to design the aircraft in game. What I mean is will the type of aircraft affect its performance? Will a helldiver have a better chance of hitting its target then a Val? This also leads to the question of AA weapons. From what information that has been released, both aircraft and anti aircraft weapons are going to be controlled by NPCs. Historically, the US had the best AA weapons starting in roughly 1941-1942 with weapons such as the twin bofors cannons and proximity fuses. Anyway, will the effectiveness of the different nations AA weapons be reflected in game? I know nothing is for sure yet but aircraft and AA weapons have been confirmed so I can’t help but wonder how the two will balance each other out.

[alphakaynine]

ims sure the planes and AA guns will be modules like in WOT and WOWP.

[InvalidKey]

There are a number of ways that this could happen.  I assume upgrades to AA would be the likely path, since this is after all an arcade game, not a sim.  It also fits nicely with the module upgrade gameplay they've established in the other games.  Personally, i'm all for keeping things simple.  I will probably curse the airplanes that kill me though, regardless.  WoWs arty.

 

That said, as an avid WoT arty player, i'm not at all afraid of arty, because i've learned to use and avoid them.  I get caught occasionally sure, but that's part of the fun.  if you can defeat any game mechanic or device completely, then imho there is a problem with the game.  It should be hard.  it should have ways to make it fair for everyone, which is to say make it unfair.

 

If everything is handed to you, you'll be happy for a time, then utterly bored and leave.

[JeeWeeJ]

Well...just brainfarting here but if i would design it (with WoT in mind), i'd do it something like this:

 

Planes: planes would have basic stats, just like a stock tank in WoT. You'll start with basic planes and as you get higher in level you'll get better planes with better stats. I reckon you'll be able to upgrade them somewhat (usable weapons like various bombs, torp and machineguns, more flighing range etc) but that the rest of its effectiveness (or: if it'll hit or not) comes from your crew skill. I'd imagine you'd have a squadron leader crewmember or something to represent this. Skill wise think about dodging AA skill, dogfighting skill etc. A carrier can prolly be equipped with modules to enhance fighter performance. The effectiveness of anti-ship weapons will work pretty much the same as guns that ships uses with a penetration stat vs armor stat etc.

 

AA: your ship type will determine how much AA you can carry. Destroyer = low AA density, Battleship or AA cruiser = high AA density. The density of your AA can probarbly be upgraded (= more guns) like for example what the Germans did with the Tirpitz (quadrupled its number of 20mm AA guns) after hearing that the Bismarck was pwned by an antique doubledecker torpedoplane. Also i imagine you'll be able to install better guns, enhancing your AA even further. Once again, a lot of the real effecitveness (accuracy, reload etc) should come from a crewmember and his skills. Prolly a secondary gunnery chief or something with corresponding AA related skills. Extra ship upgrades will probarbly enhance the AA capability even further like better firecontrol or something.

 

Now the balancing act: one ship alone will never, EVER, be able to wipe out an entire squadron. Yes it'll take down a few planes, yes it might be able to dodge all the bombs and torps (especially if its a destroyer or light cruiser) but just like the Yamato, one (big)ship is pretty much F'ed against a squadron (or more) of bombers. A group of ships however, like the american battlegroups, can take down a whole lot of incoming planes with overlapping (and automated) AA fire. Sure, ships will get damaged or even be lost, but it will force ships to stay together. Now add a carrier in this group providing air cover and you're pretty much safe against air attacks.

 

Also, a CV will prolly have a limited amount of planes and i reckon it'll have a maximum number of planes it can have in the air. So it cant send wave after wave after wave against the other team.

 

 

Anyway, thats how i imagine that things will work. Once again, this is a major brainfart from my side. It does make me wonder if the IJN CV gets the option to kamikaze his planes... Would be fun! :)

[Peristeronicify]

It will be interesting trying to coordinate AA fire, one ship could focus on group of aricraft howeve we can prioritize targerts while another ship tarets another etc.

 

It would be hard to do especially when we have to communicate as a team *gasp*. It will be interesting trying to balance concentrated forces for protection and multile forces trying to achieve local strategic success.

[God_Of_Death_EX]

Peristeronicify, on 17 August 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

It will be interesting trying to coordinate AA fire, one ship could focus on group of aricraft howeve we can prioritize targerts while another ship tarets another etc.

It would be hard to do especially when we have to communicate as a team *gasp*. It will be interesting trying to balance concentrated forces for protection and multile forces trying to achieve local strategic success.

what happen if 28 CVs enters one battle...FART!!

[Peristeronicify]

God_Of_Death_EX, on 17 August 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

what happen if 28 CVs enters one battle...FART!!

I'm sorry I can't hear you over the AA fire.

[Rickstag]

God_Of_Death_EX, on 17 August 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

what happen if 28 CVs enters one battle...FART!!

that seems unlikely, as unlikely as seeing 28 arties in one battle in WOT.

[Torqued]

I really just want to hear about some of the basic mechanics of aircraft carriers.  It seems to me there will need to be alot of AI built into this game to make it work, and that in general is a totally new mechanic/concept when compared to WoT.  I personally dont want to see the game deteriorate into command and conquer.  This game should require some twitch skill to play each and every unit, not simply telling some aircraf to launch and attack something.  That would be goofy as hell and not fun at all.  As it is, I fear this game will devolve into a game which mechanics more mimic the artiliary from WoT, which IMO is NOT very fun.  Certainly I think we need some long range artillary type ships, but I am very much hoping they wont be able to easily hit a fast moving ship over the horizon, like is easily done in WoT.  HItting a slow moving battleship is a different story.

 

That being said I will reserve any and all judgment until the mechanics of all the units are revealed.

[Tanz]

Will be interesting to see what comes up when it comes to AA. I would think they would make it difficult for a single ship to shoot down many planes. Fast moving targets vs semi-fast moving guns. Yet, can see it being more difficult for the aircraft when attacking more then one ship due to coordinated AA fire.

 

Give the CV drive the ability to pick between different attack runs for their Torp & Dive bombers. Non of this.."hey attack that target, fly in a straight line & same altitude all the way"

[Goldeneye54]

When it  comes to AA and planes it will come down to balance for sure. Low tier ships won't have much AA but then again the planes coming at them will be biplanes.  But fire the comparison of carriers verse Arty the one thing I have to say shot they is I can kill planes, I can't kill the arty shells.

[Peristeronicify]

Goldeneye55, on 17 August 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

When it  comes to AA and planes it will come down to balance for sure. Low tier ships won't have much AA but then again the planes coming at them will be biplanes.  But fire the comparison of carriers verse Arty the one thing I have to say shot they is I can kill planes, I can't kill the arty shells.

Yeah, but arty onl fires one shell. A sortie will carry multiple planes.

[Windhover118]

Peristeronicify, on 17 August 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Yeah, but arty onl fires one shell. A sortie will carry multiple planes.

But at the same time it takes multiple bombs to sink a ship unless they hit a magazine or something. We also dont know how many planes a carrier will be able to launch at any given time or how long the planes can stay in the air.

[Peristeronicify]

Windhover118, on 17 August 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

But at the same time it takes multiple bombs to sink a ship unless they hit a magazine or something. We also dont know how many planes a carrier will be able to launch at any given time or how long the planes can stay in the air.

The Bismark was crippled with one torpedo, in in that it was unable to navigate properly. (Correct me if I'm wrong but there are otherr such examples.)
Also flight groups of aircraft were completely wiped out by AA before attacking a target. It kind of goes both ways.

I guess e'll have to see how the devs balance it. :)

[Windhover118]

Peristeronicify, on 17 August 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

The Bismark was crippled with one torpedo, in in that it was unable to navigate properly. (Correct me if I'm wrong but there are otherr such examples.)
Also flight groups of aircraft were completely wiped out by AA before attacking a target. It kind of goes both ways.

I guess e'll have to see how the devs balance it. :)

I can see it now in game.

"Our rudders hit! We can still steer but not very well!"

This now leads me to wonder if a carrier will have to choose between torpedo and dive bombers or if they will be bale to launch both. The more I think about it the more excited I get.

[Peristeronicify]

Windhover118, on 17 August 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

I can see it now in game.

"Our rudders hit! We can still steer but not very well!"

This now leads me to wonder if a carrier will have to choose between torpedo and dive bombers or if they will be bale to launch both. The more I think about it the more excited I get.

I think you can even create mixed groups, sending both Dive bombers and Torpedo bombers in one sortie.

Ithink it will be interesting to find out how carriers take part inthe end game. They could frustrate the enemy by hiding in the expance of the map or send out their planes for recon finish the last boat etc. They seam like a realy fastenating playstyle, I wonder if the can send fighters to take out enemy attack groups and scouts.

[Crag_r]

alphakaynine, on 16 August 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

ims sure the planes and AA guns will be modules like in WOT and WOWP.

Modules in WoWP... what are you talking about? remember we still have that NDA here

[Drakenred]

Crag_r, on 17 August 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Modules in WoWP... what are you talking about? remember we still have that NDA here

then you need to get the developers to stop violating the NDA when they give interviews on the subject.

[Tanz]

this came from an interview, shermantanker found..so its some info on AA :rolleyes:

 

"It is known that the ships were equipped with (and still equipped) with plenty of all kinds of tools - from machine guns and anti-aircraft guns to various caliber. Players will be able to manage a number of them, or it will be possible to switch between the various trunks during a naval battle?

Any ship has a main gauge auxiliary caliber antiaircraft caliber and MSA (small anti-aircraft artillery). In addition, there is also the torpedo tubes, and seaplanes, and carrier-based fighters / dive bombers / torpedo. Players, of course, can not shoot from each instrument separately, since they perform the duties of the captain, and he does not run to each gun. Players will fire - that is, to direct and shoot - just the main fire and torpedo tubes. Auxiliary gauge, universal caliber antiaircraft caliber, MSA - they will be managed by AI, while the player is only able to give them priority targets and give the command to fire or to the ceasefire."

[Cathulhu]

Rickstag, on 17 August 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

that seems unlikely, as unlikely as seeing 28 arties in one battle in WOT.

http://4put.ru/pictu...384/1179653.jpg
Unlikely maybe. Impossible? Sadly not.

[CaptnAndy]

Cruisers and above should have scout plane options.

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

Is this an attack or heavy fighter?

 

[Super_Dreadnought]

Cathulhu, on 20 August 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

http://4put.ru/pictu...384/1179653.jpg
Unlikely maybe. Impossible? Sadly not.

http://www.thezooom....oo-Squirrel.jpg

My motivation to reach T10 on WoT has just died. God I hate arty.

I've read somewhere that the number of capital ships in a match are capped, and I hope Wargaming are good to their word.

[Carrier_Enterprise]

Cathulhu, on 20 August 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

http://4put.ru/pictu...384/1179653.jpg
Unlikely maybe. Impossible? Sadly not.

How on god's green earth is that even possible?

[NagatoroHayase]

If I was that e100 or IS7 I would just go back to the garage before the game started and act like that never happened.