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Shenanigans_Abound

Save a star... still

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When are you ever going to do take away save a star in ranked?? Why is this still a thing? 3 games in a row where 4 or more ships from the start go into save a star mode.. just lost 3 game’s in a row where at least 2 ships had taken ZERO damage.. zero.. in a full length game.. but hey they contributed the least so why shouldn’t they be rewarded the most right? I mean that’s the only logical thing to do.. reward those who do the least in typical care for the snowflakes fashion.. this is why you’ll always get people saying “why even bother with ranked” why bother.. a lot of people try their best to play the objectives, die in the process while the save a star ships camp the back line do zero to help and they don’t lose anything for it.. everyone goes into save a star mode and you still lose but because I’m in a cruiser and can’t put out as much damage as the full HP BB he gets to save his star.. ranked is broken.. beyond broken and has been for years.. 

the argument of “why should someone who did so much suffer for a poor team” is so invalid it’s hilarious. Because the person who does the most, caps, spots, kills people.. just wasn’t enough to beat out the guy who didn’t spot, didn’t get any kills and didn’t support but ya know.. he got a few lucky hits in so he had a few thousand more dmg so he’s the one that doesn’t have to suffer, the useless one, he’s the one who gets rewarded.  
If I  remember correctly, after seeing the numbers for ranked last year and something like 95 percent of the players stopped playing at rank ten and I’m sure of that 95 percent, 94 percent out of the 95 just stopped because they got tired of just dealing with your ridiculous philosophy of save a star. 
WG constantly preaches “teamwork wins games” “you have to work as a team to win” except ranked.. ranked that goes out the window and becomes “ teamwork doesn’t get rewarded those useless ships in the back do” there is no reason it shouldn’t be like a random battle.. the team loses as a team.. not 6 people lose but one person gets a free draw.

I mean if that’s what we want to go with then let’s go ahead and change randoms too. Let’s make that the top base xp earner gets rewarded as if it were a win.. I don’t know how many games I’ve played in random where I just get absolutely useless teams, I hit 1500 plus base Xp on a loss and get nothing for my effort.. and ships on the winning team have ships that earned less base xp than me on a win but they get rewarded more. 
 

I think it’s time wg takes a long, hard look at ranked and their rewarding system for wins/ losses as a whole, not just ranked but ranked should be first on that list starting with no more save a star. Think of how quickly teamwork would become an actual factor in ranked again if everyone knows that if they lose, they lose a star regardless of how much they sat in the back and dmg farmed.. basically, look at the way xp is given because right now is seems to be that 99.99 percent of all xp earned is earned off of damage done while capping, spotting, killing ships, shooting down planes and anything else rounds out the last 0.01 percent of the earnable xp  

Edited by Shenanigans_Abound
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Why scores/base exp are broken and don't encourage team play:

  1. spotting means nothing for a score, only helps win, but when you lose, your score is crap
  2. giving smoke for cruisers/battleships won't help you get a better score, actually the opposite
  3. it's better for the score to farm damage and be selfish rather than play to win

To sum up, saving a star is a nice concept and helps not lose your rank when your teams are total potatoes but it is also unfair and encourages selfish gameplay. 

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I played a couple of ranked battles today received 200 k- 250k damage while doing 150 - 180k damage to enemy and my BBs had almost full health at the end of battle.

This had everything to do with the multiple repair buffs my team managed to activate. I wasn't hiding. In fact, I scored the best and second best stats for those battles.  You can't judge by looking at someone's lack of damage in this new game mode.

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hopefully save a star doesn't go anywhere .   the question is why isnt everyone playing to save a star if everyone on the team played to save a star you shouldn't lose. Blame the people doing dumb stuff not trying to save a star.   Damage , kills, decaps save stars also all things that will get you wins   Play to win the game and hope to save star. 

just cause a conquerors on the back line farming damage doesnt gaurentee it saving a star specially in arms race .  

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44 minutes ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

When are you ever going to do take away save a star in ranked?? 

I actually figured this out on my own. But it is necessary. It's forced progression to keep the ranks full. Ranked would stagnate without it.

Imagine the top 100 players in the game all playing ranked. Without saving a star, they would never advance, they would beat the heck out of each other for 500 games and they would all have two stars.

The same with irrevocable. Without some sort of trap/celling implemented... to force players to better ranks aka... feed the lions, aka, fresh meat, aka Noobs, aka tackling dummies.... no one would progress. To be honest its quite ingenious and more so that I figured it out.

 

The argument should be who keeps their star or who gets rewards but without a +7/-6 arrangement no one would advance or rank out.

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32 minutes ago, Banished_Privateer said:

To sum up, saving a star is a nice concept and helps not lose your rank when your teams are total potatoes but it is also unfair and encourages selfish gameplay

This is assuming that the person who saved his star is the best player on the team and the other 6 are all potatoes . Which I Don't think happens very often it's a flawed system but it makes some people happy .

The nature of ranked is what makes people crazy enough to just try and save there star 3 min into the game .  That and they have MMM which tells them there going to lose so as soon as 1 ship is sunk there in star saving mode .

I cant blame them you get all the way to rank 4 and in one losing streak your back to 8 . Maybe just one more save your rank like rank 5 and then make it 5 stars to get to the next rank till your done  . 

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8 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Which I Don't think happens very often it's a flawed system but it makes some people happy.

Yes it’s a flawed system, but that’s only because the base xp system it uses is a flawed system that encourages selfish gameplay rather than playing for the win. If the base xp system were reworked away from only favoring damage above all else and instead rewarding you for doing what your ship is supposed to be doing (spotting and cap contesting for destroyers, tanking and blapping for battleships, fire support and team support for cruisers, etc), the save a star mechanic would be more viable in ranked and not reward the back line HE spammers that are the typical causes of save a star complaints. 

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Saving star statistically very sound and good rule. Because in average (and this is important for big sets - not the extreme cases) it rules out bad players who doesn't care about preserving their ship during match. Usually it is over-extension: DD trying to get first heal buff in the center, radar CA chasing after DD into enemy area, BB ignoring focused fire while trying to finish somebody or get "better" position. All those cases are high-risk high reward situation where players make wrong judgement call. And they are punished by never saving their star.

 

This is good mechanics. Yes it's flawed and farming ships (BB sitting behind front lines whole game and careful Smolensk players, who never close in) will abuse it, but if they are bad players they won't be able to abuse it often and if they are good players, - they will understand that it is more profitable to help team in more effective ways rather than safe farming. It is natural progression of players quality - learning to mitigate your risk with your skills and experience.

 

XP system is far from ideal because it cannot calculate tactical combination (for example if I bait superior ship into chasing me and lead her into ambush) and this poorly reflects on "save star" mechanics, but in average this (mechanics) works. Just an observation - you won't hear much complains about this mechanics from good players - they live with it and it does not bother them. There's reason why.

 

Update 03/03 after evening of ranking.

Yes, sometimes constant save star by Smolensk can really piss off. I just checked - last 5 games in a raw losing team had Smolensk saving star. 

Quality of player here have nothing to do with giant enema created by WG, so yeah, - in case of screw-the-balance-ship this rule becomes a joke.

Edited by SlartiBartFastE2
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30 minutes ago, SlartiBartFastE2 said:

Saving star statistically very sound and good rule. Because in average (and this is important for big sets - not the extreme cases) it rules out bad players who doesn't care about preserving their ship during match. Usually it is over-extension: DD trying to get first heal buff in the center, radar CA chasing after DD into enemy area, BB ignoring focused fire while trying to finish somebody or get "better" position. All those cases are high-risk high reward situation where players make wrong judgement call. And they are punished by never saving their star.

 

This is good mechanics. Yes it's flawed and farming ships (BB sitting behind front lines whole game and careful Smolensk players, who never close in) will abuse it, but if they are bad players they won't be able to abuse it often and if they are good players, - they will understand that it is more profitable to help team in more effective ways rather than safe farming. It is natural progression of players quality - learning to mitigate your risk with your skills and experience.

 

XP system is far from ideal because it cannot calculate tactical combination (for example if I bait superior ship into chasing me and lead her into ambush) and this poorly reflects on "save star" mechanics, but in average this (mechanics) works. Just an observation - you won't hear much complains about this mechanics from good players - they live with it and it does not bother them. There's reason why.


In all fairness you make it sound like the best and smartest players are the ones who always save there star . I don't see this I see selfish people saving there star almost as much as the talented player  . I'm no where near as good or have half the experience you have but its not really working the way its supposed to a lot of times . Its rewarding the wrong people enough to make it annoying .

Also in a lot of games there's at least 3 good players on your team . So as soon as they see its going to be a loss in there minds they start competing for whos going to get that star and then it becomes even harder to win .

 

 

Edited by clammboy

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35 minutes ago, clammboy said:

In all fairness you make it sound like the best and smartest players are the ones who always save there star

I do not operate with term always. The whole point of my post was to defend save star mechanics by pointing out it's positive side it usually punishes over-extending players and awards good players in bad teams.

 

35 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Its rewarding the wrong people enough to make it annoying

This might be very subjective. I'm not stellar player and sometimes while observing other guys I'm pissed off or simply don't understand their motives and plans. But it does not invalidate their success. So in your words I'm getting annoyed for not saving star as well (honestly I rarely check score outcome on loss to see who specifically saved the star), but I understand that maybe I don't understand what would have been proper steps for our team to win and maybe those guys did just that.

 

35 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Also in a lot of games there's at least 3 good players on your team . So as soon as they see its going to be a loss in there minds they start competing for whos going to get that star and then it becomes hard to win .

I disagree. It is not the mentality of good players - to compete for crumbs. The mentality is to fight for win to the end. It's worth it. Because while giving you (in some cases) saved star it won't give you (in most cases) chance of hard-fought win.

 

Always stick to sour-cream fabula ;)

 

in layman terms: 3 good players will rather fight to the end trying to win, than competing who keeps the star.

Edited by SlartiBartFastE2

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2 hours ago, SlartiBartFastE2 said:

I do not operate with term always. The whole point of my post was to defend save star mechanics by pointing out it's positive side it punishes over-extending players and awards good players in bad teams.

  

This might be very subjective. I'm not stellar player and sometimes while observing other guys I'm pissed off or simply don't understand their motives and plans. But it does not invalidate their success. So in your words I'm getting annoyed for not saving star as well (honestly I rarely check score outcome on loss to see who specifically saved the star), but I understand that maybe I don't understand what would have been proper steps for our team to win and maybe those guys did just that.

 

I disagree. It is not the mentality of good players - to compete for crumbs. The mentality is to fight for win to the end. It's worth it. Because while giving you (in some cases) saved star it won't give you (in most cases) chance of hard-fought win.

 

Always stick to sour-cream fabula ;)

 

in layman terms: 3 good players will rather fight to the end trying to win, than competing who keeps the star.

Yes you are correct "always" was not the right word . I'm not really against the star system it has its merits and its draw backs . I just find ranked as a whole rather frustrating but also challenging and kind of addictive . 

Some times it get the best of you and you come on the forums and vent .

 

Edited by clammboy
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Keep the achieved rank and add stars to progress to the next rank. No saved stars, full team loss or win. Ex: Make rank 10, stay rank 10, but now you have 6(?) stars to the next progression, and those stars are win/lose. Going from say rank 10 back to 12, due to team dynamics. Just makes folks want to stop at the first irrevocable rank.  See/sawing within the Rank stars, may be less aggravating?  Going back whole ranks, in my opinion, just makes me say **** this crap.   This may not work out for some, but, I will not waste my time on looping frustration due to outside variables. (Carrot and the stick). :etc_swear:

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While I appreciate everyone’s response and the fact that people didn’t come in with the normal “you just suck” “learn how to play blah blah blah garbage” 

the biggest issue the seemed to be not brought up, is people going into a game with save a star in mind. 
 

while yes, it does serve some purpose I don’t think that purpose is outweighing the negative effects of it. Sure it keeps people from throwing away their ships or from someone getting screwed just because they got stuck with a bad team or whatever.. 

may the end of the day though, when almost every game you have ships making a b line for the edges of the maps and load HE, 99 percent of the time, they’re the ones who save their star. How is this even remotely right for the people who are actually attempting to win? As I pointed out where I had 3 games in a row where 4 ships ran for the border and each game had at least two ships full HP and it wasn’t because of heals.. it was because they took zero damage the entire game while back line camping firing HE.. they saved their stars.. not the people who capped and killed but the ones that did nothing. That’s where the save a star fails because as numerous of you pointed out it just encourages selfish play to the point where it’s making ranked unplayable. 
 

I honestly think that removing save a star will make ranked what it’s meant to be, more competitive. Sure there is competition now.. but now for a win, it’s for a star. I think having it in place is hurting ranked more than helping any one player. 
 

the whole idea of it would just be teams slugging it out for five hundred games doesn’t seem right at all.. players would still progress, just at a slower pace. It’s not like it’s constantly win one, loss one and back and forth. Sometimes you win for 4 or 5 games and then maybe lose one or two.. or sometimes you lost 4 or 5 and then win 1 or 2 but smart players on a losing streak don’t play at that time and wait for players to cycle out. So progression will still occur, rank outs will still occur.
 

If players are ranking out every season in 4 or 5 days then WG should take a look at their stats and see how many stars they saved during that time.. more than likely it’ll end up only being a few which kinda negates the argument that save a star allows people to still progress. 

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3 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

When are you ever going to do take away save a star in ranked?? Why is this still a thing?

It is a thing because "good players" didn't think they should lose a star because of a bad team so they complained until WG gave them what they wanted.  WG can't win.  If they don't listen to the community people complain, if they give them what they want others like you  complain that the change they did was bad.

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33 minutes ago, Admiral_Andy said:

It is a thing because "good players" didn't think they should lose a star because of a bad team so they complained until WG gave them what they wanted.  WG can't win.  If they don't listen to the community people complain, if they give them what they want others like you  complain that the change they did was bad.

And I guess it back fired didn’t it? Because what you call “good players” are now instantly in save a star mode.. just like everyone else. You call it complaining I call it what it is.. stupid.. because when you have 3,4,5 and I’ve seen as many as 6 ships run for the border and start firing he. Seems to be a little outta hand at this point. Sorry you don’t want to have save a star taken away because you’d have to participate more than clicking a the left button on your mouse?  It’s not even a game anymore.. it’s all about what team had less ships run for the border.. fun game. 

 

I’m sure “good players” such as yourself would be devastated to have participate... bahahahahaha good players.. bahahahahaha 

Edited by Shenanigans_Abound

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I think save a star should go too because it's so obviously skewed towards capital ships and the fantasy ships like Smolensk saving their star based on damage.

WG should compare apples to apples if they're going to have save a star.

With saving so obviously tied to damage output it's very hard for a DD to save his star. We're talking 5% of the time.

Since capital ships know damage is paramount in saving stars that's what they do.

Why not disclose how XP is calculated so DDs can at least know what needs to be done to save a star. How much is spotting worth? Capping? Defending caps? Why not disclose this, as we know damage is worth the most.

DDs will have a hard time keeping up with damage done by the Smolensks of the world. So why calculate XP based mostly on damage? It's patently out of whack.

Why not calculate based on benchmarks according to ship and make things relative? Kind of like handicaps on golf or something.

Pfff. Just spitting into the wind. This will never change...

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18 hours ago, Filthy_Pelican said:

[edited]

First off I wasn't whining secondly I said I was below average and third I played 4  games with her in ranked and your using that  . I have an over 50% win rate in that ship in random and its still not good  . Thanks for the update though but it's nothing everybody didn't know already I have posted numerous times I only have a 47% win rate . I wrote nothing toxic by the way .

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Just give us no lost stars. The 1v1 season was less toxic than even random. It was practically co-op levels.

I literally landed 5 cits in one drop, and the guy more or less only got annoyed because I wouldn't shut up about it, and even then it was pretty cordial. I had never managed 5 cits in Enterprise, so I was happy. Didn't mean to brag, though I imagine it came off that way. I even apologized while gutting that Tirpitz like a fish!

Gods do I miss that... Hate Arms Race.

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11 hours ago, Shenanigans_Abound said:

basically, look at the way xp is given because right now is seems to be that 99.99 percent of all xp earned is earned off of damage done while capping, spotting, killing ships, shooting down planes and anything else rounds out the last 0.01 percent of the earnable xp  

and this is the elephant in the room.  Damage is the way WG determin if you contributed to the win but, damage alone, is not always enough.  I have seen a DD take caps while spotting and result in a win on time while the rest of the team just melts leaving a red team on a decent number of ships but not enough time to take the caps and catch up the score deficit and the dd ends bottom of the scorecard while being the reason for winning.    You can argue that the green team was enough of a distraction that the DD could capture but with half the red team still alive, how much of a distraction were they really?

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OP, if save a star was removed, I think you would find a much for frustrating situation. Instead of the selfish "save a star mode" you accuse people of playing, you would see people just give up and die when things look bad. Save a star keeps people playing and actually trying. There have been plenty of matches where one or two of my teammates die early and I think: "eff, okay I better start doing everything I can to rack up damage, kills, and stay alive as long as possible to continue doing so, so I can hopefully at least save my star." My other teammates have the same plan for themselves. And we end up pulling it back and winning. If not, I would probably just yolo in and die to start a new match and not waste time on a failed match. Saving a star is the only thing that makes ranked playable when you get potato teams. I would just stop playing ranked all together if they got rid of it. The grind is already painful enough with it. Trust me, you wouldn't see better play and more wins from you teammates. If you got teamed with [BR-PR0]Renajocevador and [BOOMER]RetNavyNimitz54, you would lose and not even have the hope of maintaining your current rank.

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Probably going to get flak for this comment... But what if there was say up to three save a star for the losing side? Would that promote better matches or just make it worse?

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12 hours ago, Lt_Newcastle said:

I think save a star should go too because it's so obviously skewed towards capital ships and the fantasy ships like Smolensk saving their star based on damage.

WG should compare apples to apples if they're going to have save a star.

With saving so obviously tied to damage output it's very hard for a DD to save his star. We're talking 5% of the time.

Since capital ships know damage is paramount in saving stars that's what they do.

Why not disclose how XP is calculated so DDs can at least know what needs to be done to save a star. How much is spotting worth? Capping? Defending caps? Why not disclose this, as we know damage is worth the most.

DDs will have a hard time keeping up with damage done by the Smolensks of the world. So why calculate XP based mostly on damage? It's patently out of whack.

Why not calculate based on benchmarks according to ship and make things relative? Kind of like handicaps on golf or something.

Pfff. Just spitting into the wind. This will never change...

The further up the ranks i went the  DDs were in each match and a lot of the time it was one per side and the team expects you to spot for them no matter what until you're dead because it it keep them safe and it's far easy for them to farm damaged while being safe.

besides that they don't give a damn about you.

So i'm stopping at rank 5  because the damage farmers are even more demanding of the DD because i never see more than one per side at rank 5.

And they carry on as if you are only there for there benefit.

Edited by Final8ty

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Each time I see a 90thb player on my team, I try my best to save my star.  Your ranked thunderer stats that someone else posted here proved my point exactly.

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