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Charon2018

Salem or Yoshino first for coal?

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Do you like or have either the IJN or USN CA lines? Salem is a DM with the zombie heal, no LM, and t7 radar, so the general consensus I’ve seen is that it’s not really worth as much if you have or will be getting DM. Yoshino, from what I’ve seen, tries to be a Zao on steroids but most of the Zao things it does, Zao does better. Out of the two, I’d probably say to get Yoshino just because it’s different from the tech tree equivalent whereas Salem is more or less a copy of DM. 

Do you have JB and Smolensk is another question. With the fact that they’re getting removed in a little more than a month, it might make sense to get them first since there’s no guarantee we’ll ever see them again outside of santa crates or the rare ship supercontainer. 

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I'd go for the Smolensk for the same reasons given above, plus it is fun to play.   Why pay for a clone of a Des Moines (the Salem) as it really doesn't have all that much different and the Des Moines is a Tech Tree ship.   OR wait and keep building up your Coal and see what else is coming.

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Yes get the Smolensk or the Jean bart, you get a ship that will be gone for good. There's no guarantee it will come back either . I have had the opportunity to get most of the coal ships and I've not gotten either yoshino or Salem.

Never said that either of them are no good . Just saying the ships will be gone from the Arsenal and the others will stay do you have time.

Edited by Versili
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2 hours ago, Charon2018 said:

I have the coal, which first would you recommend?  Thanks.

so..people who dont have the ships..tell you their no good.....ok...well have both..Salem will take a beating better than the DM,,,Yoshino is fine...what your play style...in close...then the Salem ..Yoshino need distance and her reload is 20 seconds

 

Edited by dadeoo
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I've got both the Des Moines and the Salem. They are very similar with some noticeable differences. The Salem is like a Unique Upgrade'ish clone of the DM. In so much like the other UU's not really a advantage, but a alternative. You either get radar or hydro not both at the same time. You get as mentioned zombie Royal Navy heal, with probably one of the better paying perma camo's. If you ever venture into coop, it can actually make a little coin (emphasis on little). The Salem is my favourite coop ship. Fun to hop in if short on time and have main battery reload ship upgrade and blast away at bots.

Don't have the Yoshino so can't really comment on that one.

 

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Edited by Capt_Ahab1776
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I have both. Depends on your play style. If you like the Des then you will like the Salem. Someone mentioned your radar is T7 radar, that’s false, it’s only 8.5km, but has the T10 duration.  Plus with the heal you have quite a bit more staying power.

With the Yoshino, you have 21+km range on your guns and 20km range on your torps. Trust me, you want to use every bit of that range. She can be very very strong when played correctly or sent quickly back to port when not. With your size and Citadel you are a dev strike magnet. If you know how to Kite then this is a good pick.

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Thanks all for your perspectives.  I have the IJN CA line to T10 and USA CA/CL lines to T7.  I've earned JB and Smol with coal and ground Zao, but no DM yet.  I enjoy playing them all in both Coop and Random.  Zao can be very hot and cold and indeed get sunk fast if not kited.

Maybe I'll hold off and see what shows up.  

Edited by Charon2018
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1 minute ago, Charon2018 said:

but no DM yet.

The other night after a abysmal string of losses in ranked I finally just loaded my DM and banzai charged up the middle next to a island. (nothing else was working) one of the super powers of the DM/Salem are those rapid auto reloading 8" rifles. 3 X 3 turret / gun config, two in front one in the back. In close with the main battery reload ship upgrade. Those 8" AP rounds can really hurt broadside ships. I absolutely shredded a Minotaur and Smolensk who both backed from behind a island to see what one of their radio direction skill showed coming. It was *Bam Bam* citadels/devestating strike followed by *Bam Bam* citadels devestating strike/double strike. There was a red DM who was broadside to me with both it's front turrets blocked by a island as it seen what was happening and was accelerating away to avoid the same thing. Then a red BB blapped me taking me out quick too. We won the game, and yes that was a stupid move that miraculously paid off.

Long story short. In close the DM and Salem can be as brutal as pit bull dogs with the speed and power of the 8" AP. 

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I was leaning that way because I don't have the DM; was wondering if either Salem or Yoshino may get sent to reserve soon...

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8 minutes ago, Charon2018 said:

I was leaning that way because I don't have the DM; was wondering if either Salem or Yoshino may get sent to reserve soon...

If you’re not planning on getting DM, Salem could be a viable choice. But if you’re planning on finishing that line, Salem might be too similar to DM for you to feel like you’re getting your coal’s worth. 

Salem has been out a very long time, and has outlasted now three coal ships (Musashi, JB, and Smolensk). There’s still a chance it will be removed at some point, but seeing how it performs stat wise I don’t see it going anywhere any time soon. Yoshino has been around a while too but I could see it going before Salem does. 

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5 hours ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

Don't have the Yoshino so can't really comment on that one.

Yo Cpt_Ahab. The Yoshino is a good boat, both for medium long and short distance. She can brawl good with the right build. Torpedo load time is pathetic at 270secs, and she catches fire usually on the 1st round, of any type and from any ship.  

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I have Salem and JB but not Yoshino. I love the Salem and actually do pretty well with it. JB is recent (1 wk old) and it is a blast in coop so far. The guns on Salem can absolutely shred a broadside anything, or just burn them down otherwise. With JB going away, I would say grab it while you can, Salem has been there forever & doesn't look like it's going anywhere fast.

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15 hours ago, Charon2018 said:

Thanks all for your perspectives.  I have the IJN CA line to T10 and USA CA/CL lines to T7.  I've earned JB and Smol with coal and ground Zao, but no DM yet.  I enjoy playing them all in both Coop and Random.  Zao can be very hot and cold and indeed get sunk fast if not kited.

Maybe I'll hold off and see what shows up.  

While Zao is good at kiting, it can also be good at hit and fade tactics or if the map and situations allow for it the Zao can be great at close in DD support / taking out the enemy DDs much like Mogami can be good at.

Des Moines and Salem may be similar in many ways, but the Salem can survive far more than Des Moines and has done so several times in 1 on 1 fights with Des Moines. Main advantage between them that Des Moines has is the Radar.

 

Yoshino I acquired on December 26th 2019 and has quickly become one of my favorite ships. ( I should point out that she is using my 19 point Zao captain that is Admiral Yamamoto. And have enjoyed having that skill where if you get first blood achievement you get an extra charge to each consumable. So have fought battles having 6 HP heals instead of 5. And I have to say having Yamamoto on Zao and a Yoshino has proven very effective just as I had predicted and very carefully deciding on which ship to assign Admiral Yamamoto.

Yoshino despite at first glance having poor armor actually proves to have very trollish armor that if angled has bounced some very heavy AP shells sometimes although I try to dodge most of the oncoming heavy shells. Gun range allows you with spotter plane to engage BBs at BB ranges which tends to be nice as you are typically more accurate than they will be if your on the move and maneuvering. AA guns if you have included BFT skill and use the “O” key to focus the AA guns at the right moments will prove adequate which more easily allows you to use hydro and spotter planes instead of Def AA and Cat Fighters. And the 20km torpedoes are very nice once you get some practice using them effectively as 20km torpedoes can be trickier to use than normal torpedoes, but they are long reaching and hit very very hard. Lol have sunk some unsuspecting enemy ships with well launched 20km torpedoes even after a I had been sunk for a couple minutes.

Downside to Yoshino is it will eat citadel hits if you carelessly sit broadside to heavy AP shells. And being much like a Battlecruiser you do have to be mindful of your speed and armor effectiveness at ranges. But with practice these drawbacks are minimized and you feel they become more like strengths than liabilities. Battlecruiser style gameplay can be seen in ships like HMS Hood, PE Friedrich, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Alaska, Puerto Rico, Stalingrad, Moskava, Azuma, Yoshino, Kongo, Amagi, Kii, Guilin Caesar, Roma, and Kronstadt. Where they can have some decent armor, firepower, and speed, but can get into trouble at certain distances with their armor profiles, traveling too far too quickly without realizing, or even the weapons acting up at certain ranges. But once you figure them out like I said they become strong as long as you are mindful of the weaknesses Unique to each of them and play accordingly. 

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7 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

While Zao is good at kiting, it can also be good at hit and fade tactics or if the map and situations allow for it the Zao can be great at close in DD support / taking out the enemy DDs much like Mogami can be good at.

Des Moines and Salem may be similar in many ways, but the Salem can survive far more than Des Moines and has done so several times in 1 on 1 fights with Des Moines. Main advantage between them that Des Moines has is the Radar.

 

Yoshino I acquired on December 26th 2019 and has quickly become one of my favorite ships. ( I should point out that she is using my 19 point Zao captain that is Admiral Yamamoto. And have enjoyed having that skill where if you get first blood achievement you get an extra charge to each consumable. So have fought battles having 6 HP heals instead of 5. And I have to say having Yamamoto on Zao and a Yoshino has proven very effective just as I had predicted and very carefully deciding on which ship to assign Admiral Yamamoto.

Yoshino despite at first glance having poor armor actually proves to have very trollish armor that if angled has bounced some very heavy AP shells sometimes although I try to dodge most of the oncoming heavy shells. Gun range allows you with spotter plane to engage BBs at BB ranges which tends to be nice as you are typically more accurate than they will be if your on the move and maneuvering. AA guns if you have included BFT skill and use the “O” key to focus the AA guns at the right moments will prove adequate which more easily allows you to use hydro and spotter planes instead of Def AA and Cat Fighters. And the 20km torpedoes are very nice once you get some practice using them effectively as 20km torpedoes can be trickier to use than normal torpedoes, but they are long reaching and hit very very hard. Lol have sunk some unsuspecting enemy ships with well launched 20km torpedoes even after a I had been sunk for a couple minutes.

Downside to Yoshino is it will eat citadel hits if you carelessly sit broadside to heavy AP shells. And being much like a Battlecruiser you do have to be mindful of your speed and armor effectiveness at ranges. But with practice these drawbacks are minimized and you feel they become more like strengths than liabilities. Battlecruiser style gameplay can be seen in ships like HMS Hood, PE Friedrich, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Alaska, Puerto Rico, Stalingrad, Moskava, Azuma, Yoshino, Kongo, Amagi, Kii, Guilin Caesar, Roma, and Kronstadt. Where they can have some decent armor, firepower, and speed, but can get into trouble at certain distances with their armor profiles, traveling too far too quickly without realizing, or even the weapons acting up at certain ranges. But once you figure them out like I said they become strong as long as you are mindful of the weaknesses Unique to each of them and play accordingly. 

side note...love your name...my top star wars guy..for those that can read a book..that a story that should be a movie

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23 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Des Moines and Salem may be similar in many ways, but the Salem can survive far more than Des Moines and has done so several times in 1 on 1 fights with Des Moines. Main advantage between them that Des Moines has is the Radar.


According to WOWS stats, both ships are subpar however DM is a bit ahead of Salem. The better radar helps the team win more than the Salems heal. Stats aside, the DM is common in Clan battles while the Salem is not.

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31 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:


According to WOWS stats, both ships are subpar however DM is a bit ahead of Salem. The better radar helps the team win more than the Salems heal. Stats aside, the DM is common in Clan battles while the Salem is not.

Yeah their combat abilities are getting a bit power-crept. But before more powerful CAs arrived the Salem could be more effective in gun / armor / HP brawls. And it may not just be the fact Salem has worse Radar, but also the fact it’s technically possible to get Salem without any high tier experience needed or no CA experience needed thanks to being able to get coal easily enough over time.

Will say my Salem still holds the record time in my port for taking down Stalingrad and Moskava in 30 seconds or less from full HP to sunk. Granted  I was close range and sailing along their broadsides.

These days though it’s the longer ranged CAs that are the primary choices as they can engage even on the weekend teams that like to stay far apart from each other where as Des Moines and Salem even with maxed upgrades can’t have enough reach far too often.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1
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Two fine ships but ...  The next 6 months might have some nice surprises for the CA player.  Coupons for "Ships for Resources" happen 6 months after you use it and if you've saved a little steel that and your coal stockpile might net you both ships. But if coal is burning a hole in your pocket go with the one that fits how you play. 

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