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Sinboto

A request from a CV to their BBs

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Dear battleships, lovely ladies with big guns and heavy armour. 

While I do ever so appreciate your dedication to realistic and immersive gameplay I must make a request of you. It has come to my attention that many of you have taken to escorting the aircraft carriers, for fear of enemy reinforcements coming from beyond the blue line on our side of the map. Rest assured that my scout planes are hard at work making sure to spot any and all threats that may be in pursuit of our battle group from an extended distance. They are very good at their jobs, being veterans from the last war, so do not fret for the safety of these ace squadrons. 

I hereby request that you fully focus your attention on the strategic objectives that we have come to accomplish and the destruction of other vessels belonging to our adversaries besides.  I assure you that should the fleet carrier be endangered, or about to be so, I will alert the battle group of the changing circumstances post haste. Until then I would urge you to support your smaller counterparts in the obtaining of particular critical points of interest. 

Thank you. 

TLDR: Battleships I do not need you to permanently escort me as an aircraft carrier, please help your cruisers and destroyers instead.

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     I think it's more a case of you involuntarily escorting them. CV has the best AA defense. Group up for defense, right? :Smile_teethhappy:

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Well if they are going to hide in the back with their BB they may as well do it next to a good AA platform....:Smile_trollface:

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Just imagine -- if you had played any other ship, that BB might have been where it needed to be.

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18 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Just imagine -- if you had played any other ship, that BB might have been where it needed to be.

We both know they don't hide in the back because of carriers, since they do it even in matches without carriers. Incidentally they also do it in matches without destroyers.

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As others have said, you chose to come in and ruin the game for 22 other players, so if they choose to use you as an AA bot so that they don't get bullied without counterplay, you have no room to complain or request anything at all of them. Playing like that is ineffective and crappy, but I 100% don't blame them for it. 

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come on, battleships!

Everyone knows its the destroyer's job to escort the carrier.  We can lend AA support, put down smoke screens for the carrier... we can even rescue downed pilots who may have missed the carrier on landing and return them (I assume this is what the plane replenishment mechanism is meant to simulate).  We can even scuttle your ship with our torpedoes should the worst come to pass.  Battleships, go do your real job... shore bombardment.

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1 hour ago, Sinboto said:

Dear battleships, lovely ladies with big guns and heavy armour. 

While I do ever so appreciate your dedication to realistic and immersive gameplay I must make a request of you. It has come to my attention that many of you have taken to escorting the aircraft carriers, for fear of enemy reinforcements coming from beyond the blue line on our side of the map. Rest assured that my scout planes are hard at work making sure to spot any and all threats that may be in pursuit of our battle group from an extended distance. They are very good at their jobs, being veterans from the last war, so do not fret for the safety of these ace squadrons. 

I hereby request that you fully focus your attention on the strategic objectives that we have come to accomplish and the destruction of other vessels belonging to our adversaries besides.  I assure you that should the fleet carrier be endangered, or about to be so, I will alert the battle group of the changing circumstances post haste. Until then I would urge you to support your smaller counterparts in the obtaining of particular critical points of interest. 

Thank you. 

TLDR: Battleships I do not need you to permanently escort me as an aircraft carrier, please help your cruisers and destroyers instead.

But this is what wg intended? Thats why they broke AA for all other classes and made cv AA broken OP.

So now entire team sits by the CV in the back. Carrier rework working as intended.

Dont forget to have ........ fun......

Edited by Oldschool_Gaming_YT
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1 hour ago, Sinboto said:

Dear battleships, lovely ladies with big guns and heavy armour. 

While I do ever so appreciate your dedication to realistic and immersive gameplay I must make a request of you. It has come to my attention that many of you have taken to escorting the aircraft carriers, for fear of enemy reinforcements coming from beyond the blue line on our side of the map. Rest assured that my scout planes are hard at work making sure to spot any and all threats that may be in pursuit of our battle group from an extended distance. They are very good at their jobs, being veterans from the last war, so do not fret for the safety of these ace squadrons. 

I hereby request that you fully focus your attention on the strategic objectives that we have come to accomplish and the destruction of other vessels belonging to our adversaries besides.  I assure you that should the fleet carrier be endangered, or about to be so, I will alert the battle group of the changing circumstances post haste. Until then I would urge you to support your smaller counterparts in the obtaining of particular critical points of interest. 

Thank you. 

TLDR: Battleships I do not need you to permanently escort me as an aircraft carrier, please help your cruisers and destroyers instead.

Sorry that was probably me.  I like to push my CVs to the edge of the map, to ease the pain they can inflict on the reds.  Since I can't actually ever see the enemy CV, I have to make the green one my enemy.

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17 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

As others have said, you chose to come in and ruin the game for 22 other players, so if they choose to use you as an AA bot so that they don't get bullied without counterplay, you have no room to complain or request anything at all of them. Playing like that is ineffective and crappy, but I 100% don't blame them for it. 

Firstly, no one has said that I chose to come in and ruined the game for 22 other players when you made that post, not sure where that came from.

As far as your reasoning goes:

The idea behind it is cute and everything but as has been pointed out by a few others in this thread the presence of the CV isn't truly the reason for them being at the back of the map they were going to do it anyway. 

I could jump into a DD, I would see the exact same thing, (and I have seen this happening just today in my Jutland) know why? 

Because people who play in this way are not interested in helping the team or playing the objective, simple as that. 

They may use the presence of the CV's AA as an excuse for being at the back of the map but that's all it is: an excuse. They were always intending to stay at the back of the map and camp. With clusters of cruisers around along with their own AA they may not be able to fully stop the carrier from dropping a payload but they surely can mitigate the about of damage they can do. So to say that there is no room for counterplay is biased at best and false at worse, else CVs would just bomb anything without any thought about the target at any point. Which is certainly not the case. 

I know I consider what would be a good target when I am playing anyway.

Well to use your own words in regards to the original topic of staying in the back, playing like that is ineffective and crappy. 

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42 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

As others have said, you chose to come in and ruin the game for 22 other players, so if they choose to use you as an AA bot so that they don't get bullied without counterplay, you have no room to complain or request anything at all of them. Playing like that is ineffective and crappy, but I 100% don't blame them for it. 

It's not very fair to accuse a player of "ruining the game" for using something the developers put in the game. It's like accusing someone in Doom deathmatch of "ruining the game for everyone else" because they used the rocket launcher.

Are you "ruining the game" by lolpenning cruiser citadels and sinking them with little to no effort, their only mistake being "was briefly spotted"? I'm sure the cruiser feels that way. But no, you're playing the game in accordance to the mechanics and items put into it by the developers.

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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why are we blaming CVs? BB have been hugging the border like there are 4 DDs in a match focusing that BB. they do this in every game with or without CV and DDs.

Edited by Skyspartan
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1 hour ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Are you "ruining the game" by lolpenning cruiser citadels and sinking them with little to no effort, their only mistake being "was briefly spotted"? I'm sure the cruiser feels that way. But no, you're playing the game in accordance to the mechanics and items put into it by the developers.

Yes the bulk of the blame is on the devs for releasing the rework and new AA system and doing little to nothing to fix it because the numbers work for them, despite the affect on gameplay. And you can't compare overmatch and ship v ship fights to carriers vs ships. You have counterplay as a cruiser in that there is, depending on range, plenty of shell flight time and speed juking/rudder use that can dodge incoming shots. You don't "justdodge" rockets, and your AA is ineffective against all planes aside from fighters. So sure, I can't 100% blame people for playing CV, but I know I personally rarely play DD as a result, and when I do the enemy often gets caps for free because I am not walking out alone to a cap knowing I have no way to counter the CV if it comes for me once my smoke has been used. In a cruiser I play behind juicier targets because I can't defend myself from the CV instead of playing to support caps. As a BB I huddle with allies or again, keep an ally between me and incoming planes because, again, I have no counterplay to it. That is the one factor. So no, I will not let a CV tell me where to be. Even if I were in J10 with a spotter plane Montana shooting 35km away, I'm not going to let the CV tell me what to do.

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25 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Yes the bulk of the blame is on the devs for releasing the rework and new AA system and doing little to nothing to fix it because the numbers work for them, despite the affect on gameplay. And you can't compare overmatch and ship v ship fights to carriers vs ships. You have counterplay as a cruiser in that there is, depending on range, plenty of shell flight time and speed juking/rudder use that can dodge incoming shots. You don't "justdodge" rockets, and your AA is ineffective against all planes aside from fighters. So sure, I can't 100% blame people for playing CV, but I know I personally rarely play DD as a result, and when I do the enemy often gets caps for free because I am not walking out alone to a cap knowing I have no way to counter the CV if it comes for me once my smoke has been used. In a cruiser I play behind juicier targets because I can't defend myself from the CV instead of playing to support caps. As a BB I huddle with allies or again, keep an ally between me and incoming planes because, again, I have no counterplay to it. That is the one factor. So no, I will not let a CV tell me where to be. Even if I were in J10 with a spotter plane Montana shooting 35km away, I'm not going to let the CV tell me what to do.

I disagree, they are absolutely comparable situations. Any claim otherwise is just making excuses to justify blaming players for using features of the game the developers put in place.

And with the mentality demonstrated in this post, I am absolutely certain that if it wasn't carriers, you'd be saying the same "But no counterplay!" garbage in relation to something else- most likely either "shooting HE from behind islands" or "stealth-launched torpedoes".

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Funny, BBs (and other ships) are often forced to sit in the back because of (guess what?????) CVs!!!! Yay... 

 

One of the few ways to stay safe from CVs is to join a  blob big enough that the enemy CV dont want to get close. 

 

Not to mention that if a CV is striking, if you want to "just dodge", you are often giving a brodside to enemy ships, and this is not something that you want to do. So its better to stay at range and even if you "just dodge", you are far enough from enemy ships that giving a broadside is not that dangerous.

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2 minutes ago, Xlap said:

Funny, BBs (and other ships) are often forced to sit in the back because of (guess what?????) CVs!!!! Yay... 

Except that's wrong, they do that even in games without CVs in them.

Because CVs are not what causes that behavior.

Neither are destroyers, for the record.

Can you guess what is the actual root cause for this behavior, and always has been, since...I want to say January 2016?

Edited by KiyoSenkan
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18 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

And with the mentality demonstrated in this post, I am absolutely certain that if it wasn't carriers, you'd be saying the same "But no counterplay!" garbage in relation to something else- most likely either "shooting HE from behind islands" or "stealth-launched torpedoes".

Not at all. I have played just about every ship in the game, and well. I understand the game and different strengths, weaknesses, how to maximize a ship and minimize the impact of other ships on myself. That is because the counterplay to something torping me is using map awareness, my detection, and priority target to know when I am being torped. If I get stealth torped it is likely my own lack of awareness or just well played by that DD to counter what I was doing, oblivious to him. If something is shooting HE over a rock and I am in a BB I could either get out of his area of effect, judge it worthwhile to tank that while doing something else, or potentially shoot back despite him not being lit. Against an attack from a CV I can set a sector, shoot down 0-2 planes, then see what RNG rolls for alpha and DOTs. The difference is I can fight back against things even when they aren't lit sometimes, and I have the ability to counterplay things like what you mentioned through skill, game knowledge, and awareness. Against planes you don't have that counterplay. It is entirely different, anyone suggesting it is comparable either lacks some basic understanding or has too little experience in other ship types.

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3 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Except that's wrong, they do that even in games without CVs in them.

Because CVs are not what causes that behavior.

Neither are destroyers, for the record.

Can you guess what is the actual root cause for this behavior, and always has been, since...I want to say January 2016?

I play far more passively in CV games than any other. This is because as a good player I can use my ability to control map area and counter enemies, but when there is a CV I can't afford to make plays or play aggressively because my skill means nothing since AA is AI and that is all that I have against CVs.

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1 minute ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Except that's wrong, they do that even in games without CVs in them.

Some players do, others dont. But when a CV is nearby they are all forced to play passive or risk being sunk by CVs... 

 

There are many players that like to play agressive, but CVs just make that much harder and often frustrating. 

 

Hell, my favorite ship used to be Tirpitz, since the CV rework i have barely played that ship, most battles have a CV, and pushing into secundaries range is really hard now. Most of the times the CV just strikes you to death. If you are pushing you are often out of AA blob, and if you try to dodge strikes you are giving broadside to enemy ships, if you dotn dodge you take full stikes... I mena, shy push and have a bad game if i can sit in the back and have a better one...

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1 minute ago, Kebobstuzov said:

I play far more passively in CV games than any other. This is because as a good player I can use my ability to control map area and counter enemies, but when there is a CV I can't afford to make plays or play aggressively because my skill means nothing since AA is AI and that is all that I have against CVs.

So you didn't actually address anything contained in the post you quoted, here. All I'm seeing is excuses and a rather arrogant claim that you somehow represent the majority of players.

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OP: will not comment on BB behavior in random battles... Just would like to point out that in the Naval War in the Pacific, many cruisers and DD (and occasionally BB when available) were assigned to CV escort, env screening and AA duties. CV were at the very center of the battle plan...and on many battles CV were 500 miles or so from their foes...

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Just now, KiyoSenkan said:

So you didn't actually address anything contained in the post you quoted, here. All I'm seeing is excuses and a rather arrogant claim that you somehow represent the majority of players.

You said the root cause of the problem always has been that basically the playerbase sucks. They do, you're right on that, but you are ignoring another one of the absolute biggest factors why even good players, in addition to the average player, play super passive in CV games. That is what I was adding.

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2 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

You said the root cause of the problem always has been that basically the playerbase sucks. They do, you're right on that, but you are ignoring another one of the absolute biggest factors why even good players, in addition to the average player, play super passive in CV games. That is what I was adding.

That's not what I said, actually.

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This whole debate is turning into another one of those us vs. them, things. I sometimes wonder if people are throwing out these same topics just to get views. The bottom line is that WG will continue to do as it pleases until their revenue stream is negatively affected, once that happens changes start happening, "quick smart".

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2 hours ago, Oldschool_Gaming_YT said:

But this is what wg intended? Thats why they broke AA for all other classes and made cv AA broken OP.

So now entire team sits by the CV in the back. Carrier rework working as intended.

Dont forget to have ........ fun......

If you take away the auto fighters from the CV, their AA is around that of same tier BBs.

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