So many of you DD players commit suicide at start.

[USMC2145]

When you DD know there is CV in the game why do you run right into a cap alone with no help then complain the CV took you out. Either the CV is going to take you out or their spotting you will let their team do it. I will never understand why you DD are not willing to play the long game and stay alive to where you can have help doing what you need to do. There is no point to rushing right into a cap at the start just to be dead 2 min later. All that does is put your team in a bad spot. This applies when there is radar at that cap also. 

[MN_Nice]

I agree with the OP’s general sentiment.

I would say that, based on my limited experience and speaking not for myself and what I have observed, determining the proper degree of aggression and the timing of that aggressiveness is a key to this game.

A DDs job is to spot and contest caps, IMO, and that requires being out in front.  However, one needs an escape plan...

Skirting a cap to let the situation develop...backing into the cap so you can charge out if necessary, all these sorts of things are good approaches...and understanding when you have potential support and when you are definitely alone..these are also good things to keep in mind.

And all of these are easier said than done...

[GrayPanther2018]

Maybe the DD doesn't want to play with a CV and is just looking for a quick way back to port.

I have not played random for quite a while so don't have personal experience with it. 

[enderland07]

Players in all classes suicide at start.

It happens faster with destroyers though. Sometimes, you can see a BB/CA player positioning in a way which is nearly guaranteed to lead to their death a minute or two later. That's no less silly than when a DD does it.

The big difference is people don't understand why they get wrecked in BB/CAs because the suicide is a drawn out suicide vs the nearly instant death destroyers receive.

[Primal__Fear]

2 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Players in all classes suicide at start.

It happens faster with destroyers though. Sometimes, you can see a BB/CA player positioning in a way which is nearly guaranteed to lead to their death a minute or two later. That's no less silly than when a DD does it.

The big difference is people don't understand why they get wrecked in BB/CAs because the suicide is a drawn out suicide vs the nearly instant death destroyers receive.

Agree and it truly sucks watching players do this.... UNLESS they are on the other team!!!

[Karstodes]

Well, the game is more hostile for DD player than ever before. Radar ships are everywhere, CV are common, deadly CL are at every corner (looking at you Smolensk) and the Baguette DD can shred any Destroyer that go caught. It require a level of skill far higher than 2 years ago imo.

[SeaborneSumo]

With CV planes in enemy spawn within 45 seconds of a match starting, it doesn't matter where the DD is at.  He will be spotted and targeted early if there is a CV.  This is one of the many fundamental problems with CVs in WOWS that WG will not address because:

1. Gives them another class of ship to sell.

2. Shortens match time by allowing spotting so early.  A stated goal by WG.

With the spotting, perma-spotting and rockets,,, CVs have made DD play miserable.  Yes, some people still play DDs, even I still do occasionally.  But if there are 2-3 CVs in the match,,,, I will usually opt out and go to another match.  

[Commander_367]

1 hour ago, USMC2145 said:

When you DD know there is CV in the game why do you run right into a cap alone with no help then complain the CV took you out. Either the CV is going to take you out or their spotting you will let their team do it. I will never understand why you DD are not willing to play the long game and stay alive to where you can have help doing what you need to do. There is no point to rushing right into a cap at the start just to be dead 2 min later. All that does is put your team in a bad spot. This applies when there is radar at that cap also. 

I don't play DD often … 

But when I do, I like to get it over with as soon as possible :)

[Legio_X_]

I have seen CVs target DDs at start of match while the dd player is sailing close to other friendly ships. I think it’s stupid how planes are able to get atleast 1 strike off before the squad goes.

[CrazyHorse_Denver]

You made a good point... now what about the opposite side. Do you advocate abandoning the caps to the red team so they can build up such a lead in points that the only way to win is the elimination of all red ships.

The tactics change from CV to non-CV games but the principles are the same. Someone has to approach the cap to know what the red team has sent there... if anything. Sometimes the DD lucks out and there will be no opposition and other times they'll run into half the red team. Obviously in those "other times" they usually die early. Sometimes before dying if a DD can get off a spread of torps or put a few shells into a red DD the reds will abandon the push on that cap.

I will find no fault in a DD player that is where a DD should be... out in front scouting for the team. To do so requires them to go into harms way and as often times as not they do get harmed by doing their jobs. Any DD that is sailing behind the CL/CAs or even the BBs...I see this all the time... are not doing their jobs.

[eviltane]

1 hour ago, USMC2145 said:

When you DD know there is CV in the game why do you run right into a cap alone with no help then complain the CV took you out. Either the CV is going to take you out or their spotting you will let their team do it. I will never understand why you DD are not willing to play the long game and stay alive to where you can have help doing what you need to do. There is no point to rushing right into a cap at the start just to be dead 2 min later. All that does is put your team in a bad spot. This applies when there is radar at that cap also. 

You are mostly correct that there is no point in rushing to a cap  early ( on some maps with some caps it still is just fine) when a CV is present.  There is a problem in that you are making bad DD play as the cause of the problem DDs have with CVs.  Certainly there are a group of potatoes who will get themselves killed like this then complain about CVs. Those guys are on the same level as the BBs that eat full torpedo volleys then complain about torps.

 

[daikujin]

The reason I feel for a lot of these “bad DD player” threads is because as a DD driver you’re [edited] no matter what you do. Go into the cap: you’re dead. Don’t go into the cap: team screams at you and reports you. And heaven forbid you try to get your own damage in, that’s not allowed unless you’re a cruiser or BB. A lot of people complain about it, but realize a lot of you are why it’s become like this. Just look at ranked and the idiots that demand the DD grabs the middle buff right off the bat. Majority of the times it’s suicidal to do that, yet someone always demands it ( it’s always a camping BB at the back) bad DD play gets punished faster than bad BB or CA play because you have heals, way higher HP pools and better armor, does this mean bad BB or CA players are still better than bad DD players? 

[Soshi_Sone]

1 hour ago, USMC2145 said:

When you DD know there is CV in the game why do you run right into a cap alone with no help then complain the CV took you out. Either the CV is going to take you out or their spotting you will let their team do it. I will never understand why you DD are not willing to play the long game and stay alive to where you can have help doing what you need to do. There is no point to rushing right into a cap at the start just to be dead 2 min later. All that does is put your team in a bad spot. This applies when there is radar at that cap also. 

There is a fine line here. The long game when you're cap down can be a loss.  I don't yolo die in my DD, but I'm going to try to cap early if the opportunity exists.  Not too worried about CVs as I know how to handle them when I run DDs.  So this isn't a cut and dry situation.  Gotta look at the map.  Look at the line up.  Play smart. 

While dying early is bad for the team.  Going a couple of caps down can be  just as bad if the reds know how to do it without loss.  Then all they gotta do is play the long game FTW.

[KaptainKaybe]

Do DDs sometimes suicide themselves rushing a cap? Yes.

Do capital ships often tend to sit back and refuse to support their DDs and let the enemy cap everything at the start? Also yes.

[Tachnechdorus]

1 hour ago, USMC2145 said:

When you DD know there is CV in the game why do you run right into a cap alone with no help then complain the CV took you out. Either the CV is going to take you out or their spotting you will let their team do it. I will never understand why you DD are not willing to play the long game and stay alive to where you can have help doing what you need to do. There is no point to rushing right into a cap at the start just to be dead 2 min later. All that does is put your team in a bad spot. This applies when there is radar at that cap also. 

The reason is one word.    POTATOS  ! ! !

[Commander_367]

47 minutes ago, daikujin said:

The reason I feel for a lot of these “bad DD player” threads is because as a DD driver you’re [edited] no matter what you do. Go into the cap: you’re dead. Don’t go into the cap: team screams at you and reports you. And heaven forbid you try to get your own damage in, that’s not allowed unless you’re a cruiser or BB. A lot of people complain about it, but realize a lot of you are why it’s become like this. Just look at ranked and the idiots that demand the DD grabs the middle buff right off the bat. Majority of the times it’s suicidal to do that, yet someone always demands it ( it’s always a camping BB at the back) bad DD play gets punished faster than bad BB or CA play because you have heals, way higher HP pools and better armor, does this mean bad BB or CA players are still better than bad DD players? 

The rewards are meager and few … 

The risk is high and death is all but certain if you follow orders

You will get no credit and regardless of outcome, your team will disown you

 

Should you choose to accept this mission, your pension and benefits will be clawed back retroactively by the IRS

Good Luck Soldier :)

[Skpstr]

54 minutes ago, SeaborneSumo said:

With CV planes in enemy spawn within 45 seconds of a match starting, it doesn't matter where the DD is at.  He will be spotted and targeted early if there is a CV. 

If the CV player goes to the right spawn. If he goes to A, and a DD spawns at C, (and doesn't beeline for the cap) then the CV player will take longer to find him. And as time needed increases, fewer CV players are willing to fly around not doing any damage.

And with fewer DDs playing, the chance of the CV winning the initial "shell game" decreases.

54 minutes ago, SeaborneSumo said:

Shortens match time by allowing spotting so early.  A stated goal by WG.

When did WG state they wanted to shorten matches?

If that's the case, they failed miserably, because average match length has increased slightly since the CV rework.

[Skpstr]

35 minutes ago, daikujin said:

Don’t go into the cap: team screams at you and reports you. And heaven forbid you try to get your own damage in, that’s not allowed unless you’re a cruiser or BB. A lot of people complain about it, but realize a lot of you are why it’s become like this. Just look at ranked and the idiots that demand the DD grabs the middle buff right off the bat. Majority of the times it’s suicidal to do that, yet someone always demands it....

No offense, but I think you are too concerned with what others think....

[Nachoo31]

46 minutes ago, CrazyHorse_Denver said:

You made a good point... now what about the opposite side. Do you advocate abandoning the caps to the red team so they can build up such a lead in points that the only way to win is the elimination of all red ships.

The tactics change from CV to non-CV games but the principles are the same. Someone has to approach the cap to know what the red team has sent there... if anything. Sometimes the DD lucks out and there will be no opposition and other times they'll run into half the red team. Obviously in those "other times" they usually die early. Sometimes before dying if a DD can get off a spread of torps or put a few shells into a red DD the reds will abandon the push on that cap.

I will find no fault in a DD player that is where a DD should be... out in front scouting for the team. To do so requires them to go into harms way and as often times as not they do get harmed by doing their jobs. Any DD that is sailing behind the CL/CAs or even the BBs...I see this all the time... are not doing their jobs.

Hmm.. the dd hate is real.  Go play one... not just one game.  I have been targeted at the get-go.  Fall back and worked to be finally killed at the 3 min mark left in the match.  It's hard to do and its a pain in the rear because you can't play the roles completely without getting spotted.  10x harder when there are planes.

[Xlap]

2 hours ago, USMC2145 said:

When you DD know there is CV in the game why do you run right into a cap alone with no help then complain the CV took you out. Either the CV is going to take you out or their spotting you will let their team do it. I will never understand why you DD are not willing to play the long game and stay alive to where you can have help doing what you need to do. There is no point to rushing right into a cap at the start just to be dead 2 min later. All that does is put your team in a bad spot. This applies when there is radar at that cap also. 

This is true, but this alo aplies to cruisers and BBs too. So many players in general just suicide at the start. Probably one of the reasons we are seing so many blowouts. Most players have no clue of what they are doing, thye either suicide or hide all game. 

 

Back to DDs, there is also a major issue with CV interaction. If the DD sits in the back, he is safe from the CV but he is being useles to the team. If the DD moves foward he becomes a easy target. BBs and cruisers cna sit in the back, safe from CVs, but still be shooting at enemy ships, most DDs dont have this option. 

[SidTheBlade]

If a DD doesn't advance to cap, he can't spot. Then the same back line damage farmers who act like know it alls and accuse him of suicide blame him for not spotting, and "doing his job".

If the OP was for real, he would be encouraging the DD into the cap, as this provides an excellent opportunity to close with the enemy, and show enemy DDs the business end of naval ordinance.

Of course, the long range damage farmer is not waiting to assault the enemy DDs, as the DDs meet in the caps. He is sitting back, in the rear with the gear, waiting to see which large, slow BB he can farm for HE damage.

DDs should enter caps. They should enter them, and contest them, and fight, and win.

Other players should support them with fortitude, not cowering behind rocks, but also advancing with guns at the ready, eager to take the hard shot at the fast moving enemy DD.

The aim is not be the last to die, with the most farmed damage.

The aim is to close with the enemy, to sink him, and to seize the territory, regardless of season, weather or sea conditions.

[Skpstr]

8 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

The rewards are meager and few … 

The risk is high and death is all but certain if you follow orders

That's why I play my own game, and pay little attention to chat.

Many people here (myself included) are of the opinion that the vast majority of the playerbase has little clue about what they are doing. (also myself included lol)

Yet, I see some of the same people complain about being "yelled at" by their teammates.

Who cares what they say, when you know that it's unlikely that they know any better than you?

[whyme69]

I think WG said get good or die guss they died.

[Commander_367]

8 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

That's why I play my own game, and pay little attention to chat.

Many people here (myself included) are of the opinion that the vast majority of the playerbase has little clue about what they are doing. (also myself included lol)

Yet, I see some of the same people complain about being "yelled at" by their teammates.

Who cares what they say, when you know that it's unlikely that they know any better than you?

I actually start out with the view that my own team is more hostile and dangerous than the reds … 

It's a challenge, but it's very exciting :)

[Skpstr]

19 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

If a DD doesn't advance to cap, he can't spot.

Why is that? Is your vision obscured if you aren't in that circle? I was under the impression that spotting rules were the same over the entire map.

Quote

Then the same back line damage farmers who act like know it alls and accuse him of suicide blame him for not spotting, and "doing his job".

So? Why would you care about the opinions of players you don't sound like you respect anyway? This is certainly a case where I would advocate "growing a thicker skin".

Quote

If the OP was for real, he would be encouraging the DD into the cap, as this provides an excellent opportunity to close with the enemy, and show enemy DDs the business end of naval ordinance.

As well as showing the friendly DD the business end of several ships' worth of naval ordnance.

Rushing the cap is often suicidal without CVs present.

Quote

DDs should enter caps. They should enter them, and contest them, and fight, and win.

 

Quote

Other players should support them with fortitude, not cowering behind rocks, but also advancing with guns at the ready, eager to take the hard shot at the fast moving enemy DD.

How are DDs supposed to enter caps, contest them and fight, when their teams are supporting "with fortitude".

Are you under the misconception that supporting ships would shoot at each other, and not the DDs?

Quote

The aim is not be the last to die, with the most farmed damage.

The aim is to close with the enemy, to sink him, and to seize the territory, regardless of season, weather or sea conditions.

Why do you necessarily need to close with them? If you can lay down effective fire from 20km, and your opponent can't, why would you want to get closer?

Now, that's not to say that many players can't lay down effective fire at longer ranges, and should get closer, but you can't really generalise it.

The idea is to sink the enemy, while denying him the opportunity to do the same. You can't do that if you're dead.

Powered ships with rotating turrets require more finesse than sailing ships and cannon broadsides.