Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Noworriesderpy1

What IF the BOT behavior was the same in Main COOP as it is in PTS

18 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

150
[BEA5T]
Members
482 posts
16,470 battles

As I was casually derpying along in COOP play on the PTS server I was rudely awaken with numerous rocket hits from the BOT CV even though I pointed my bow towards it and even popped smoke.  Next thing I know it hit me again.   Now being I been playing CV in COOP quite extensively ( in PTS as well)  at least for me it takes forever to turn the planes around for the second pass. 

So of course first thing I thought about was all so this is how the DD players in PVP feel when they are targeted by the CV planes.      

Anyway the other derpy moment was  I had forgotten that the BOTS act a good bit different in PTS then they do in COOP main.   

Which brings me to the thought of the moment...   WHAT if !  

WOWS devs migrated the BOT (AI) behavior from the PTS over to MAIN.  

1. It may lower the possibility of the so called "Mercy rule" when we have those over abundance of "human  chargers"

2. It may increase the difficulty a bit within COOP as the BOTS will not be on predictable path.  

Was this ever brought up before ( Bot AI in COOP being more difficult then it is currently) 

So was there an uproar or if there were not,  would there would be one if it occurred ?

  

 

 

 

Edited by Noworriesderpy1
none
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
707 posts
11,912 battles

I have had PTS CV's make darn near impossible cross drops of torps on me. I KNOW those planes can't turn and line up THAT fast (Felt like an old RTS game). I kinda like the PTS bots and hope they do migrate them to the live server. I can see where it would cause quite an uproar, but it would be a nice change of pace and after 1-2 weeks it would be considered normal.

 

They do need to fix the PTS bots getting stuck between islands constant back/fwd, don't know where to go thing however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
755
[KSC]
Members
836 posts
11,323 battles

I've heard they put the new bot AI into Co-Op and the reaction was very much against.

Co-Op is just a calmer, more forgiving experience on purpose.  They'd have to add a harder version of Co-Op as a different queue, and that's unlikely because splitting the playerbase increases queue times.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
150
[BEA5T]
Members
482 posts
16,470 battles
1 hour ago, Ahskance said:

I've heard they put the new bot AI into Co-Op and the reaction was very much against.

Co-Op is just a calmer, more forgiving experience on purpose.  They'd have to add a harder version of Co-Op as a different queue, and that's unlikely because splitting the playerbase increases queue times.

 I have been playing in COOP exclusively since around the middle of 2018 so if it was introduced it had to be before then.    Hopefully some of the older COOP mains or PVP players that played both back when it happened will chime in with what occurred and why ?

I do remember the BOT RTS CV planes were insane with cross drops torps and dive bombs.   Since the rework welp only on occasion have I received a scratch from the BOT planes.... now the accurate fire from the multiple BOT ships is another thing once you have been spotted to be always aware.

  

 

 

   

Edited by Noworriesderpy1
none

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,471
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
28,694 posts
24,985 battles

If it takes longer, the rewards should be better.

 

I didn't mind at all when we had the harder bots briefly on Live server.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
250
[VOP]
Members
588 posts
10,205 battles

They basically turned co-op into randoms with bots. You shell them once they turn and run from you kiting away while still at max speed. Being in a constant stern chase is not my idea of fun.

The other things like dd's using their smoke were improvements and the kiting were not that bad. But being caught in a stern chase in the same ship you are chasing and finding that it is pulling away from you while still kiting really should be looked into. At the time it was rolled out the smoking up and kiting were nice additions. The running away not really so much.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
363
[PVE]
Members
1,469 posts
41,246 battles
4 hours ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

As I was casually derpying along in COOP play on the PTS server I was rudely awaken with numerous rocket hits from the BOT CV even though I pointed my bow towards it and even popped smoke.  Next thing I know it hit me again.   Now being I been playing CV in COOP quite extensively ( in PTS as well)  at least for me it takes forever to turn the planes around for the second pass. 

So of course first thing I thought about was all so this is how the DD players in PVP feel when they are targeted by the CV planes.      

Anyway the other derpy moment was  I had forgotten that the BOTS act a good bit different in PTS then they do in COOP main.   

Which brings me to the thought of the moment...   WHAT if !  

WOWS devs migrated the BOT (AI) behavior from the PTS over to MAIN.  

1. It may lower the possibility of the so called "Mercy rule" when we have those over abundance of "human  chargers"

2. It may increase the difficulty a bit within COOP as the BOTS will not be on predictable path.  

Was this ever brought up before ( Bot AI in COOP being more difficult then it is currently) 

So was there an uproar or if there were not,  would there would be one if it occurred ?

  

 

 

 

No keep the chicken bots in the PTS.

 Go play random if you like that kind of playing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
653
[CO-OP]
Members
1,837 posts
26,546 battles

The major frustration was that it was all the ship types that turned tail and ran, seeing a full health Yamato kiting away from a low health DD was fairly laughable. TBH from what I can remember that was the major irritation and what the player reaction was largely about, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
707 posts
11,912 battles
1 minute ago, Efros said:

The major frustration was that it was all the ship types that turned tail and ran, seeing a full health Yamato kiting away from a low health DD was fairly laughable. TBH from what I can remember that was the major irritation and what the player reaction was largely about, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Are you sure you didn't go in to Randoms by mistake?

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
653
[CO-OP]
Members
1,837 posts
26,546 battles

Nope, although I have done that, usually doesn't go too badly although my aggression tends to mean that although I do a fair amount of damage I rarely see the end of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,677
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
16,923 posts

The PTS bots aren't harder, or better, they just take longer to kill. 

They wouldn't make Co-op more challenging, just turn it into a boring slog of chasing down red ships.

The ONE thing they'd accomplish is making Co-op less attractive to the people who use it to speed-grind certain missions while thinking they're "too good" for PVE.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
150
[BEA5T]
Members
482 posts
16,470 battles
39 minutes ago, cecill611 said:

No keep the chicken bots in the PTS.

 Go play random if you like that kind of playing.

LOL only time I will ever will be in Random if I have fallen in due to an accidental push of button due to an DIV mate.   Knowing I do not play PVP the button for RANDOM on my Client is NEVER clicked on.  

COOP goes... then it will be the end of the road here for me   

5 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

The PTS bots aren't harder, or better, they just take longer to kill. 

They wouldn't make Co-op more challenging, just turn it into a boring slog of chasing down red ships.

The ONE thing they'd accomplish is making Co-op less attractive to the people who use it to speed-grind certain missions while thinking they're "too good" for PVE.

 

The PTS Bots may not seem harder to you but the BOT planes are 110% more accurate then they are on the Main.   And I do have build the DDs for longer range torp runs then on the main as they will not just charge on in and tend to bunch up outside of the cap areas.   Other than that like indicated there isn't much of an improvement of the AI "data" on the PTS. 

 

Again this was just to see if COOP had ever had a time when the BOTS was introduced into play what would be considered on the "Difficult side"  

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
817
[WOLF9]
Members
4,667 posts
10 hours ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

As I was casually derpying along in COOP play on the PTS server I was rudely awaken with numerous rocket hits from the BOT CV even though I pointed my bow towards it and even popped smoke.  Next thing I know it hit me again.   Now being I been playing CV in COOP quite extensively ( in PTS as well)  at least for me it takes forever to turn the planes around for the second pass. 

So of course first thing I thought about was all so this is how the DD players in PVP feel when they are targeted by the CV planes.      

Anyway the other derpy moment was  I had forgotten that the BOTS act a good bit different in PTS then they do in COOP main.   

Which brings me to the thought of the moment...   WHAT if !  

WOWS devs migrated the BOT (AI) behavior from the PTS over to MAIN.  

1. It may lower the possibility of the so called "Mercy rule" when we have those over abundance of "human  chargers"

2. It may increase the difficulty a bit within COOP as the BOTS will not be on predictable path.  

Was this ever brought up before ( Bot AI in COOP being more difficult then it is currently) 

So was there an uproar or if there were not,  would there would be one if it occurred ?

  

 

 

 

  HA!!!  I'm NOT alone!  I thought I was doing something wrong, with my planes taking so long to get turned around...  I've not seen anyone else mentioning it before now.   

  Tbh, before the rework, the difference between facing CV's in pvp and then in Co-op was about the same.   Bot CV's would derp around with 1 squadron at a time, and obsess over 1 ship until it was dead- or they ran out of planes.   They weren't particular about what ship, either- they'd attempt to troll an AA powerhouse with the same liklihood of going after something with junk AA.   Didn't matter if it made strategic sense or not.    If you were in a North Carolina or Buffalo, for example- you could simply sail about your business with a fireworks show going over your head most of the game, lol.    They did have an obnoxious habit of blasting you for massive damage now and then, though.

  Pvp, it depended entirely on WHO was playing that CV.   Usually, the player is at least somewhat smarter about who he attacks, but, like you said- if they are halfway competent, it could get painful.

  But back on topic...

  I think it would help a little, if the bots would actually pimp slap those yoloing players now and then, instead of just laying down and dying with nary a whimper.    We know they CAN- we've all been crushed like it was nothing by the bots before- it's just that for whatever reason, they don't.

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
653
[CO-OP]
Members
1,837 posts
26,546 battles

There does seem to be the occasional superbot who runs rampant during the course of a game and racks up numerous kills, hardly ever is said bot a friendly, although I have seen it.

Edited by Efros

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,655
[PVE]
Members
12,852 posts
26,810 battles
16 hours ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

Again this was just to see if COOP had ever had a time when the BOTS was introduced into play what would be considered on the "Difficult side"  

Yes they were. It was in the Mid 7.# update range when WG announced new and improved bots were being added that were "better". They lied. From what I read of the bots on PTS (never done PTS - don't care to) the bots we got that were "better" were about the same as those on PTS. FWIW...

  • Only at the lowest tiers did this result in "better" bots. New players had a hard time with them. Co-op mains such as myself pointed out they were too much for the new players at low tier and they should be tuned down a bit THERE; at mid to high tier it was fine and no real difference. This may be where the false claims that Co-op players complained the new bots were too hard came from? That would be typical of today's world = taking something totally out of context and twisting it to further an agenda (ie; anti Co-op). Enough people repeat something that is complete :etc_swear: and soon enough it turns into "fact". So Co-op players complain new bots are too much for new players becomes...Co-op players complain new bots are too hard. :Smile_facepalm: 
  • The "improved" bots did have some good features that Co-op mains wanted WG to keep. They would actually use their smoke (somewhat), WASD a LOT more (hitting a DD at times was almost impossible :Smile_veryhappy:), they didn't all yolo to one cap after one ship and instead they would spread out, take random routes to caps/bases vs the usual ones we all know and expected, and pick more appropriate targets at least a good portion of the time, and they didn't immediately leave a cap/base if you became detected or were taking theirs. When you add those things to their insane RNG, fire chance, torpedo dodging prowess, all knowing ESP so you can never hide from them even if undetected, etc... it actually  "could have" made them better IF they retained their aggressive hard charging nature. But they didn't. Seeing these improvements was limited because of...
  • The "improved" bots earned the nickname of "chicken bots" because of how they turned and ran away at the 1st sign of aggression from the humans once a certain range was reached or condition met. I can remember multiple times I was alone or had a teammate with me pushing a cap vs 3,4,5+ bots, who normally would force us back and/or wipe us out, only to see them turn and run away when we started shooting back :Smile_facepalm:. Thought it was in my mind the first few times but after seeing it over and over I realized it was programmed. At some point in the game the remaining bots would go into "run and hide mode" even if they were down and you had to spend 5 minutes +/- trying to find them ad kill them as they ran from you non stop. It was the most boring and dull thing ever. You would actually prefer the Mercy Rule to it because it was THAT bad. Imagine trying to run down 2 full HP BB's that kite away from you for the remainder of the game and imagine doing it where even if you were in the EXACT same ship they would outrun you somehow. :Smile_sceptic: Sometimes while running away they stopped and would start circling like bot CV's do as well. It was ridiculous.
  • Co-op mains complained loud and often about the chicken bot problem NOT the other "improvements" but somehow history says we just complained it was ALL of it making it too "hard" which is complete and utter :etc_swear:. No one ever said it was too "hard" (nothing harder about it actually); we said it made every games too LONG (for the same poor rewards) and that we preferred the bots that wanted to fight (that is the one thing above all I think attracts people to Co-op to begin with). We also CLEARLY said we wanted them to KEEP ALL the other stuff (using smoke, WASD, etc...) but WG took it all away instead and people started the false narrative that we said it was ALL too hard.

I have no issue with WG bringing back the new and "improved" bots if they remove the "chicken bot" part. It makes the games too much like PVP (ie; peek-a-boo and hide-n-seek). Co-op needs to remain the brawl oriented mode it is not get turned into a passive snore fest like that update did to it. 

EDIT - almost forgot another falsehood I read a lot. Besides the myth that Co-op players complained it was "too hard" I see another total piece of :etc_swear: put forth to make Co-op players look bad. Many say the improved bots were pulled because Co-op player win rates all fell. WHAT???? Again, those bots were NOT harder to deal with (at least for people mid tier + - again new players had some issues). Despite some actual improvement to their play it did NOT result in massive losses and drops in WR. That is trash. The improvements let them fight longer but the end result was the same which was 95%+ WR. Just a totally garbage claim.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
150
[BEA5T]
Members
482 posts
16,470 battles
15 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Yes they were. It was in the Mid 7.# update range when WG announced new and improved bots were being added that were "better". They lied. From what I read of the bots on PTS (never done PTS - don't care to) the bots we got that were "better" were about the same as those on PTS. FWIW...

  • Only at the lowest tiers did this result in "better" bots. New players had a hard time with them. Co-op mains such as myself pointed out they were too much for the new players at low tier and they should be tuned down a bit THERE; at mid to high tier it was fine and no real difference. This may be where the false claims that Co-op players complained the new bots were too hard came from? That would be typical of today's world = taking something totally out of context and twisting it to further an agenda (ie; anti Co-op). Enough people repeat something that is complete :etc_swear: and soon enough it turns into "fact". So Co-op players complain new bots are too much for new players becomes...Co-op players complain new bots are too hard. :Smile_facepalm: 
  • The "improved" bots did have some good features that Co-op mains wanted WG to keep. They would actually use their smoke (somewhat), WASD a LOT more (hitting a DD at times was almost impossible :Smile_veryhappy:), they didn't all yolo to one cap after one ship and instead they would spread out, take random routes to caps/bases vs the usual ones we all know and expected, and pick more appropriate targets at least a good portion of the time, and they didn't immediately leave a cap/base if you became detected or were taking theirs. When you add those things to their insane RNG, fire chance, torpedo dodging prowess, all knowing ESP so you can never hide from them even if undetected, etc... it actually  "could have" made them better IF they retained their aggressive hard charging nature. But they didn't. Seeing these improvements was limited because of...
  • The "improved" bots earned the nickname of "chicken bots" because of how they turned and ran away at the 1st sign of aggression from the humans once a certain range was reached or condition met. I can remember multiple times I was alone or had a teammate with me pushing a cap vs 3,4,5+ bots, who normally would force us back and/or wipe us out, only to see them turn and run away when we started shooting back :Smile_facepalm:. Thought it was in my mind the first few times but after seeing it over and over I realized it was programmed. At some point in the game the remaining bots would go into "run and hide mode" even if they were down and you had to spend 5 minutes +/- trying to find them ad kill them as they ran from you non stop. It was the most boring and dull thing ever. You would actually prefer the Mercy Rule to it because it was THAT bad. Imagine trying to run down 2 full HP BB's that kite away from you for the remainder of the game and imagine doing it where even if you were in the EXACT same ship they would outrun you somehow. :Smile_sceptic: Sometimes while running away they stopped and would start circling like bot CV's do as well. It was ridiculous.
  • Co-op mains complained loud and often about the chicken bot problem NOT the other "improvements" but somehow history says we just complained it was ALL of it making it too "hard" which is complete and utter :etc_swear:. No one ever said it was too "hard" (nothing harder about it actually); we said it made every games too LONG (for the same poor rewards) and that we preferred the bots that wanted to fight (that is the one thing above all I think attracts people to Co-op to begin with). We also CLEARLY said we wanted them to KEEP ALL the other stuff (using smoke, WASD, etc...) but WG took it all away instead and people started the false narrative that we said it was ALL too hard.

I have no issue with WG bringing back the new and "improved" bots if they remove the "chicken bot" part. It makes the games too much like PVP (ie; peek-a-boo and hide-n-seek). Co-op needs to remain the brawl oriented mode it is not get turned into a passive snore fest like that update did to it. 

EDIT - almost forgot another falsehood I read a lot. Besides the myth that Co-op players complained it was "too hard" I see another total piece of :etc_swear: put forth to make Co-op players look bad. Many say the improved bots were pulled because Co-op player win rates all fell. WHAT???? Again, those bots were NOT harder to deal with (at least for people mid tier + - again new players had some issues). Despite some actual improvement to their play it did NOT result in massive losses and drops in WR. That is trash. The improvements let them fight longer but the end result was the same which was 95%+ WR. Just a totally garbage claim.

Thank you for detailing the events that occurred "back then" within the Co-op environment  which many of us hold as keeping us in this game.

 

  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,610
[WOLF8]
Members
7,624 posts
6,371 battles

Yeah, what @AdmiralThunder said. :Smile_great:

Please don't believe anyone spewing any fake news nonsense that Coop players complained about the changed bots because they were too difficult. They were not difficult at all, nor any smarter/better... but just darn annoying and tedious to fight.

The Coop mode already comes with a reduced pay out, compared to the Random mode, and nobody would want to spend extra time chasing those chicken bots, while earning less. One of the caveats of the Coop mode is that more aggressive play allows shorter matches, which then allows more matches per session, thereby somewhat offsetting the reduced cost. The chicken bots completely ruined it, by running away all the dang time.

Good thing that WG quickly saw their errors, and removed them shortly after. Good riddance.

Anyone still calling those chicken bots as "smarter bots" are most likely chicken-ish players themselves, who probably can't handle brawling... lol. :Smile_trollface::cap_haloween:

Edited by Blorgh2017
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×