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Shrayes_Bhagavatula

World of Warships Proposal: German Battlecruisers ( THE REDUX)

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World of Warships Proposal

Researchable Tech Tree Imperial German Navy / Kriegsmarine 

Large Cruisers/Battlecruisers 

Re-Work

By Shrayes_Bhagavatula

 

Tech Tree Layout

German Battleship Tech Tree Split after Tier V Konig, into a Battlecruiser line and a Battleship line. 

 

German Battleship line

-VI Bayern (Baden-Class)

-VII Gneisenau (Scharnhorst class with 380mm refit)

-VIII Bismarck ( Bismarck-class )

-IX Friedrich der Grosse ( H-39 )

-X Grosser Kurfurst (H-42)

 

German Battlecruiser line

-VI Mackensen ( Mackensen-class)

-VII Allendorf ( Fictional Design, combines Scharnhorst with elements of Mackensen

-VIII Cuxhaven ( Fictional Design, combines Odin-Class with elements of Mackensen

-IX Stuttgart ( Fictional design, follow up to previous designs )

-X Kiel / Wolfram ( Fictional design, combines elements of O-Class BC with Friedrich Der Grosse Class )


 

Line characteristics

  • VII-X ships have torpedoes

  • VIII-X ships have Hydroacoustic search

  • VIII-X ships all do over 33 knots

  • Armor scheme is similar to that of German Battleships

  • Line is equipped with 3x3 350mm guns from Tier VII-X with shortened fuse timer, with exception of Wolfram, which is equipped with 3x2 406mm

  • Wolfram has access to American Surveillance Radar consumable

  • Ships are large and somewhat clumsy above Tier VIII

  • All ships above Tier VIII use KM40 instead of L/61 SK C/42 128mm secondary guns

  • Ships have unique dispersion formula from Tier VII, with 7R+55 instead of 8.4R+48 with standard BC

  • Tier VIII-X ships have a heal that recovers 0.66%HP/Sec instead of 0.5% HP/Sec

  • Wolfram has a supercharged heal that recovers 1.5%HP/Sec 

 

(Note, all numbers are for top configurations with no modules or commander skills)



 

Tier VI: Mackensen

HP: 51,500

Torpedo Damage Reduction: 18%

Armor: 21mm extremity plating, 38mm deck, 320mm armor belt, 350mm turret armor, 19mm superstructure, 21mm torpedo belt

Armaments

 Primary Armament: 4x2 350mm 

  • Maximum HE Damage: 4100 ( 30% fire chance )

  • Maximum AP Damage: 9900 ( Normal Angles and Fuse Timer )

  • Range : 17.0 km

  • Reload Time: 28 seconds

  • Maximum Dispersion: 230m

  • Shell Velocity: 815 m/s

  • Sigma: 1.8

  • Rotation speed: 4 deg/sec ( 45 second turret traverse )

 Secondary Armament: 8x2 105mm, 12x1 150mm

  • Maximum HE Damage: 1300/1700

  • Range : 5.5km

  • Maximum dispersion : 112m

  • Sigma: 1.0

AA Defense

 Long Range: 8x2 105mm 

  • DPS: 95

  • Number of Explosions per Salvo: 4

  • Damage caused by an explosion: 1,157

  • Range of Aura: 3.5-4.5km

Medium Range: 10x2 37mm

  • DPS: 121

  • Range of Aura: 2.0-3.5km

Short Range: 8x2 20mm

  • DPS:52

  • Range of Aura: 0.1-2.0km

Maneuverability

 Maximum speed: 26.5 knots

 Rudder shift time: 13.2 seconds

 Turning circle: 770m

 Rotation speed: 3.9 deg/sec

 

Concealment

  • By Sea: 13.7km

  • By Air:  9.8km

  • When on fire: 15.7km

  • After firing main guns: 16.9km

  • After firing main guns in smoke: 13.6km

4 Upgrade Slots, Standard German Options

Consumables

  • Damage Control Party ( 10 second action time, 90/60 second reset)

  • Repair Party ( 3 charges, 28 second action time, 0.5% Repair/sec, 120/80 reset)

  • Fighter/Spotter ( 60/100 second action time. 120/80  or 360/240 reset)


 

Tier VII: Allendorf

HP: 56,600

Torpedo Damage Reduction: 21%

Armor: 26mm extremity plating, 45mm deck, 330mm armor belt, 360mm turret armor, 19mm superstructure

Armaments

  Primary Armament: 3x3 350mm L/52 SK C/41

  • Maximum HE Damage: 3900 ( 33% Fire Chance )

  • Maximum AP Damage: 10,100 ( Normal Angles, 0.025 second fuse timer)

  •  Range: 19.0 Km

  • Reload time : 26 seconds

  • Turret Traverse: 5.5 deg/sec ( 32.73 second turret traverse)

  • Maximum dispersion: 188m

  • Shell Velocity: 845 m/s

  • Sigma: 1.8

Secondary Armaments: 2x3 150mm, 6x2 128mm

  • Maximum HE Shell damage: 1800/1500

  • Maximum Range: 7.4KM

  • Maximum Dispersion: 102m

  • Sigma: 1.0

AA Defense

    Long Range: 6x2 128mm

  • DPS: 103

  • Number of Explosions in a salvo: 6

  • Damage caused by an explosion: 1,442

  • Range of Aura: 4.0-5.2KM

   Medium Range: 14 x 2 37mm

  • DPS: 259

  • Range of Aura: 2.5-4.0km

   Short Range: 10x2 20mm

  • DPS: 101

  • Range of Aura: 0.1-2.5km

Torpedo Armament:2x3 533mm Vierling

  • Torpedo: G7a T1 

  • 13,700 Damage 

  • 64 knots

  • 6 km range

  • 72 second reload

Maneuverability

  • Top speed: 30 knots

  • Rudder Shift time: 14.4 seconds

  • Turning circle: 850m

  • Rotation speed: 4.4 deg/sec

Concealment

  • By Sea: 15.6km

  • By Air : 9.9km

  • When on fire: 17.6km

  • After firing main guns: 20.4km

  • After firing main guns in smoke: 14.4km

5 upgrade slots, Standard German Options

Consumables

  • Damage Control Party ( 10 second action time, 90/60 reset )

  • Repair Party ( 3 Charges, 28 second action time, 0.55% Repair/sec, 120/80 reset)

  • Hydroacoustic Search ( 2 Charges, 120 second action time, 3.75km torpedo detection, 5km ship detection, 180/120 reset)

OR

  • Defensive Anti-Aircraft fire ( 2 Charges. 30 second action time, x3 damage booster, 120/80 reset )



 

Tier VIII: Cuxhaven

HP: 62,800

Torpedo Damage Reduction: 27%

Armor: 30mm extremity plating, 50mm deck, 350mm armor belt, 380mm turret armor, 19mm superstructure

Armaments

  Primary Armament: 3x3 350mm L/52 SK C/41

  • Maximum HE Damage: 3900 ( 33% Fire Chance )

  • Maximum AP Damage: 10100 ( Normal Angles, 0.025 second fuse timer)

  •  Range: 21.0 Km

  • Reload time : 26 seconds

  • Turret Traverse: 5.5 deg/sec ( 32.73 second turret traverse)

  • Maximum dispersion: 202m

  • Shell Velocity: 845 m/s

  • Sigma: 1.9

Secondary Armaments: 2x3 150mm, 6x2 128mm

  • Maximum HE Shell damage: 1800/1500

  • Maximum Range: 7.4KM

  • Maximum Dispersion: 102m

  • Sigma: 1.0

AA Defense

    Long Range: 6x2 128mm

  • DPS: 103

  • Number of Explosions in a salvo: 6

  • Damage caused by an explosion: 1,442

  • Range of Aura: 4.0-5.2KM

   Medium Range: 14 x 2 37mm

  • DPS: 259

  • Range of Aura: 2.5-4.0km

   Short Range: 10x2 20mm

  • DPS: 101

  • Range of Aura: 0.1-2.5km

Torpedo Armament:2x4 533mm Vierling

  • Torpedo: G7a T1 

  • 13,700 Damage 

  • 64 knots

  • 6 km range

Maneuverability

  • Top speed: 33.5 knots

  • Rudder Shift time: 15.1 seconds

  • Turning circle: 890m

  • Rotation speed: 4.4 deg/sec

Concealment

  • By Sea: 15.7km

  • By Air : 9.9km

  • When on fire: 17.6km

  • After firing main guns: 20.4km

  • After firing main guns in smoke: 14.4km

5 upgrade slots, Standard German Options

Consumables

  • Damage Control Party ( 10 second action time, 90/60 reset )

  • Repair Party ( 3 Charges, 28 second action time, 0.66% Repair/sec, 120/80 reset)

  • Hydroacoustic Search ( 2 Charges, 120 second action time, 3.75km torpedo detection, 5km ship detection, 180/120 reset)





 

Tier IX: Stuttgart

HP: 68,400

Torpedo Damage Reduction: 33%

Armor: 32mm extremity plating, 60mm extended belt, 350mm Armor belt, 380mm turret armor, 50mm deck

Armaments

Primary Armament: 3x3 350mm L/55 SK C/43

  • Maximum HE Damage: 4000 ( 35% Fire Chance )

  • Maximum AP Damage: 10200 (Normal angles, 0.025 second fuse timer)

  • Maximum Firing Range: 21.5KM

  • Reload: 24 seconds

  • Turret Traverse: 7.0 deg/sec ( 25.71 second traverse)

  • Maximum Dispersion: 205m

  • Shell Velocity: 855 m/s

  • Sigma: 1.9

Secondary Armaments: 8x2 128mm

  • Maximum HE Shell damage:/1500

  • Maximum Range: 7.5KM

  • Maximum Dispersion: 100m

  • Sigma: 1.0

AA Defense

    Long Range: 8x2 128mm

  • DPS: 159

  • Number of Explosions in a salvo: 8

  • Damage caused by an explosion: 1,442

  • Range of Aura: 4.0-5.2KM

   Medium Range: 16 x 2 37mm

  • DPS: 292

  • Range of Aura: 2.5-4.0km

   Short Range: 12x2 20mm

  • DPS: 134

  • Range of Aura: 0.1-2.5km

Torpedo Armament:4x3 533mm Vierling

  • Torpedo: G7a T1 

  • 13,700 Damage 

  • 64 knots

  • 6 km range

Maneuverability

  • Top speed: 33 knots

  • Rudder Shift time: 12.4 seconds

  • Turning circle:920m

  • Rotation speed: 4.5 deg/sec

Concealment

  • By Sea: 16.1km

  • By Air : 10.9km

  • When on fire: 18.1km

  • After firing main guns: 21.5km

  • After firing main guns in smoke: 15.4km

6 upgrade slots, Standard German Options

Consumables

  • Damage Control Party ( 10 second action time, 90/60 reset )

  • Repair Party ( 3 Charges , 28 second action time, 0.66% Repair/sec, 120/80 reset)

  • Hydroacoustic Search ( 2 Charges, 120 second action time, 3.75km torpedo detection, 5km ship detection, 180/120 reset)




 

Tier X: Kiel

HP: 78,400

Torpedo Damage Reduction: 26%

Armor: 32mm extremity plating, 60mm extended belt, 350mm Armor belt, 380mm turret armor, 50mm deck

Armaments

Primary Armament: 3x3 350mm L/55 SK C/43 Mod.1

  • Maximum HE Damage: 4200 ( 38% Fire Chance )

  • Maximum AP Damage: 10500 (Normal angles, 0.025 second fuse timer)

  • Maximum Firing Range: 21.5KM

  • Reload: 24 seconds

  • Turret Traverse: 6.5 deg/sec ( 27.69 second traverse)

  • Maximum Dispersion: 205m

  • Shell Velocity: 855 m/s

  • Sigma: 2.1

Secondary Armaments: 11x2 128mm (KM40)

  • Maximum HE Shell damage: 1500

  • Maximum Range: 7.6KM

  • Maximum Dispersion: 100m

  • Sigma: 1.0

AA Defense

    Long Range: 11x2 128mm

  • DPS: 229

  • Number of Explosions in a salvo: 8

  • Damage caused by an explosion: 1,442

  • Range of Aura: 4.5-6.0KM

   Medium Range: 12 x 2 37mm, 8x2 57mm

  • DPS: 404

  • Range of Aura: 2.5-4.5km

   Short Range: 10x2 20mm, 6x4 20mm

  • DPS: 201

  • Range of Aura: 0.1-2.5km

Torpedo Armament:4x4 533mm Vierling

  • Torpedo: G7a T1  

  • 14,400 Damage 

  • 64 knots

  • 6km range

Maneuverability

  • Top speed: 34.5 knots

  • Rudder Shift time: 13.7 seconds

  • Turning circle: 990m

  • Rotation speed: 4.7 deg/sec

Concealment

  • By Sea: 16.7km

  • By Air : 11.8km

  • When on fire: 18.7km

  • After firing main guns: 21.9km

  • After firing main guns in smoke: 15.9km

6 upgrade slots, Standard German Options

Consumables

  • Damage Control Party ( 10 second action time, 90/60 reset )

  • Repair Party ( 3 Charges, 28 second action time, 0.66% Repair/sec, 120/80 reset)

  • Hydroacoustic Search ( 2 Charges, 120 second action time, 4.0km torpedo detection, 6km ship detection, 180/120 reset)

 

Tier X: Wolfram (Premium, 240,000 Coal)

HP: 77,500

Torpedo Damage Reduction: 30

Armor: 32mm extremity plating, 60mm extended belt, 350mm Armor belt, 380mm turret armor, 50mm deck

Armaments

Primary Armament: 3x2 406mm

  • Maximum HE Damage: 4800 ( 38% Fire Chance )

  • Maximum AP Damage: 12700 (Normal angles, Normal fuse timer)

  • Maximum Firing Range: 22km

  • Reload: 26 seconds

  • Turret Traverse: 6.5 deg/sec ( 27.69 second traverse)

  • Maximum Dispersion: 209m

  • Shell Velocity: 810 m/s

  • Sigma: 2.2

Secondary Armaments: 10 x 2 128mm

  • Maximum HE Shell damage: 1500

  • Maximum Range: 7.7KM

  • Maximum Dispersion: 100m

  • Sigma: 1.0

AA Defense

    Long Range: 10x2 128mm

  • DPS: 204

  • Number of Explosions in a salvo: 8

  • Damage caused by an explosion: 1,442

  • Range of Aura: 4.5-6.0KM

   Medium Range: 14 x 2 37mm, 8x2 57mm

  • DPS: 471

  • Range of Aura: 2.5-4.5km

   Short Range: 12x2 20mm, 6x4 20mm

  • DPS: 225

  • Range of Aura: 0.1-2.5km

Torpedo Armament: 4x3 533mm Drilling

  • Torpedo: G7 Steinbutt

  • 13,700 Damage 

  • 65 knots

  • 8km range

Maneuverability

  • Top speed: 35 knots

  • Rudder Shift time: 15.1 seconds

  • Turning circle: 1010m

  • Rotation speed: 4.9 deg/sec

Concealment

  • By Sea: 16.6km

  • By Air : 11.5km

  • When on fire: 18.5km

  • After firing main guns: 21.7km

  • After firing main guns in smoke: 15.6km

6 upgrade slots, Standard German Options

Consumables

  • Damage Control Party ( 10 second action time, 90/60 reset )

  • Repair Party ( 2 Charges, 28 second action time, 1.5% Repair/sec, 120/80 reset)

  • Hydroacoustic Search ( 2 Charges, 120 second action time, 4.0km torpedo detection, 6km ship detection, 180/120 reset) 

  • Surveillance Radar ( 2 Charges, 40 second action time, 10km range, 180/120 reset )




 

The German Battlecruisers were designed to provide a counter to the American, Japanese, and Russian large cruisers. They combine powerful, fast firing and hard hitting armaments with excellent armor and high speed, while adding a useful AA defense and great versatility on top of that. As the cherry on the cake, their concealment is on par with or exceeds their Russian and American counterparts, though behind their Japanese counterparts. They have an equal or lesser number of guns compared to their counterparts, and they reinforce that  by having the ability to overmatch armor up to 24mm thick, longer firing range and greater accuracy, and  turret traverse speeds that are quicker than their counterparts. Also, unlike their American and Russian counterparts, they wield a set of back-up weapons in the form of long range secondaries and knife-fighting torpedo armament. Unfortunately, they are also extremely large targets, very clumsy while turning, and will take citadel-penetrating hits from 14 inch and larger guns when showing full broadside.

 

The Tech Tree starts with the Tier VI Mackensen, progresses through the torpedo-equipped Allendorf, and on to the Tier VIII Cuxhaven, where the line gains access to Hydroacoustic Search and the improved repair party consumable. At the Tier 9 Stuttgart, the line gains access to improved guns with higher shell velocity and better penetration, culminating with the monstrous Kiel. Boasting massive artillery firepower and torpedo banks, Kiel can rival actual battleships in terms of sheer destructive power and prowess. A premium ship also makes herself known here, the Wolfram. Wolfram is unique, thanks to her setup of 3 dual 406mm guns, as opposed to the standard 3x3 350mm guns, as well as a lower number of longer ranged torpedoes, as well as the Surveillance radar consumable

 

For these ships, we would recommend going with a survivability setup, to maximize the longevity of these battlecruisers,especially given the massive HP pools they possess. 

 

Recommended build

Main Armaments Modification 1

Damage Control System Modification 1

Aiming Systems Modification 1

Damage Control System Modification 2

Concealment Systems Modification 1 (Above Tier VIII)

Main Battery Modification 3 (Above Tier IX)

 

Commander Build

1.Preventative Maintenance

2.Adrenaline Rush

3.Superintendent

4.Concealment Expert

5. Priority Target

6.High Alert

7.Basics of Survivability

8.Vigilance

 

Flags

-India Delta

-November Foxtrot

-November Echo Setteseven

-India Yankee

-Juliet Yankee Bissotwo

Economic Flags recommended, but not advised for all the time

 

NOTES

- The 350mm L/52 SK C/41 and L/55 SK C/43 ( or mod.1 as found on the Kiel ) are fictional weapon designs that I based off of the Mackensen-class 350mm L/42 SK C/14, rifles so these are not real. I went with these designs in order to keep consistency throughout the line with the 350mm guns from Tier 6 to Tier 10

- When I say these ships will not take citadel damage from guns smaller than 14 inches in caliber, what I meant was that these ships have a very, very low probability of taking citadel damage from any ship with guns less than 14 inches in caliber  ( Stalingrad, Alaska, Yoshino ). However, any guns larger than 14 inches in caliber ( i.e  Fuso, King George V, Bismarck, Alsace, Kremlin) will be capable of reliably landing citadel hits when showing an uncomfortable amount of broadside

- Wolfram will use American Surveillance Radar instead of a unique radar consumable. The heal on Wolfram will also have fewer base charges, but will be the same as the heal found on the Soviet DD (IX) Neustrashimy


 

As an ending note, I would like to extend thanks to LittleWhiteMouse for inspiring me to write this, as well as Flambass, Flamu, Jingles, Yuro, and all the others that keep posting their content ( don’t worry Denarmo, I didn't forget you), for keeping my spirits up in these dark times of Russian bias, the PR fiasco, and many other things that threatened the integrity of the game. You guys genuinely helped a bunch with that, and even made me a better player at the same time ( a lot of the tactics that I make use of are adopted from Flambass and Flamu’s tactics and techniques (And Yuro and Jingles give me a good laugh as well))

There's also the reason why I chose to re-write this. Rather than constantly edit the previous article that I wrote, I decided to make a clean slate copy, using the previous version as a template to create unique ships that would fill this line perfectly. I'd like to hear your guys' comments about balancing, salt mines, and many more things.

Also, the ship that will be in the next edition of Ship Opinions will be Sinop ( SinOP, more like ), by virtue of popular vote ( yeet fleet intensifies)

 

Peace!

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51 minutes ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Large Cruisers

Love the idea of a authentic Battlecruiser  line but please please do not mention the words large cruiser, what could have been a terrific O-class Battlecruiser is now a abomination, don't feed the children any more candy thank you.  

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Ok ... I applaud your effort, a lot of work went in here and from a quick glance it looks workable. But I have to wonder, why start at tier 6? Where are historical, built-in-steel, have-served battlecruisers like Von der Tann, Moltke, Seydlitz and Derfflinger?

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I gave an upvote for all the writing, but to me they look more like super cruiser with BB armour.

 

 

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Lots of time and effort went Into this write up . I’m already setting aside coal for the tier 10 Wolfram sounds like a fun premium . Good job +1.

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Well, to be fair those ships that @Lert mentioned all have performance and age similar to Tier 4 or Tier 5 ships, and I didn't want to start from that low on because that would seriously give newer players a headache ( remember, these things will eat citadel hits from actual BBs for days if showing broadside, and giving them that choice of low on unforgivingness would certainly drive the playerbase away ). The only real Tier 6 ship out of all the ones that the Imperial German navy would have built or did build would have been the Mackensen, which is why I had to make fictional ships for the Tier 7-10 ships ( Then again, almost the entire RU BB line, except the Suvorov and Gangut, is made of paper ships, and no, the Soyuz doesn't count because it was never actually finished )

Besides, it's not like WeeGee ever listens to their playerbases outside of Russia. it would be an utter miracle if  they did implement these ships, or something similar to them ( and it will probably be Soviet instead )

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula

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8 hours ago, tm63au said:

Love the idea of a authentic Battlecruiser  line but please please do not mention the words large cruiser, what could have been a terrific O-class Battlecruiser is now a abomination, don't feed the children any more candy thank you.  

And I don't suppose you meant Siegfried/Agir, which Wargaming botched up because "reasons of game balance". I totally agree with you on this one.

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     I agree with Lert about the early battle cruisers. Wouldn't it be lovely to have Invincible and Lion going up against Von der Tann and Seydlitz? Of course it would.

     Problem is, the guns and armor would wedge them into tiers where their virtually absent AA would just make them more flying monkey food, or else they would get some stupid WG "modernization" treatment like PEF or that God-forsaken "Where's me other stack?" Iron Duke.

     The age of dreadnoughts really needs it's own game, but we'll never see it unless marketing determines there's enough demand to be economically viable.

Edited by So_lt_Goes
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8 hours ago, kishan99 said:

I got a brain aneurysm with all the words

It’s worth a read-through. It’s got more thought and consideration than the upcoming Soviet cruiser line split. 

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Branch the line at III or IV and  use battlecruisers that were built; Mackensen might be able to be shoehorned into VII instead of VI and, if desired, use a study (Ersatz Yorck) for VII or VIII. 

Overall, a KM battlecruiser sidebranch is an excellent idea. 

Edited by Pugilistic
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looks awesome but personaly i would not make easy to hit citadel their major  weakness, quite the oposite make them hard to citadel with the main drawback being shorter range than its counterparts.

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5 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Well, to be fair those ships that @Lert mentioned all have performance and age similar to Tier 4 or Tier 5 ships, and I didn't want to start from that low on because that would seriously give newer players a headache ( remember, these things will eat citadel hits from actual BBs for days if showing broadside, and giving them that choice of low on unforgivingness would certainly drive the playerbase away ). The only real Tier 6 ship out of all the ones that the Imperial German navy would have built or did build would have been the Mackensen, which is why I had to make fictional ships for the Tier 7-10 ships ( Then again, almost the entire RU BB line, except the Suvorov and Gangut, is made of paper ships, and no, the Soyuz doesn't count because it was never actually finished )

Besides, it's not like WeeGee ever listens to their playerbases outside of Russia. it would be an utter miracle if  they did implement these ships, or something similar to them ( and it will probably be Soviet instead )

We got Thunderer so never say never

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16 hours ago, RagingxMarmoset said:

It’s got more thought and consideration than the upcoming Soviet cruiser line split. 

hahah

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