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Positive post / Devblog : Stalingrad 38 mm buff incoming

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image.png.1a2e7c77e8c4bf4ba43aeb03680fa824.png

Quote

 

The "Inertia fuse for HE shells" skill is changed as follows

  • With the skill, The boost to HE shell armor penetration will be reduced from 30% to 25% for Tier VIII - X ships

Due to the fact that the rule of 1/5 of the caliber was applied when calculating HE shell armor penetration on Tier VIII - X ships with 152-155 mm caliber guns, cruisers with 152 mm guns could penetrate the 38mm plating with the 30% bonus applied, which was extremely powerful. With this change, cruisers with 152 mm guns will not be able to penetrate 38mm plating. 

 

source

Spoiler

 

Obviously title is clickbait, the 38 mm nerf to IFHE at tiers 8-10 will benefit any ship whose 38mm is currently overmatched by light cruiser 152/155 mm equipped with IFHE.

is this nerf needed? Is it fair to bottom tier MM light cruisers such as Bayard? 

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1 hour ago, Battlecruiser_Repulse said:

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Well I wonder, I mean how many high tier ships have 38 mm armour?

image.thumb.png.6b4a6bce09430adfa464b4e99a181ccf.png

image.thumb.png.2729c2f5372e6b7c69e1cd55efb0f76f.png

anyone have a list?

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Just now, LoveBote said:

is this nerf needed? Is it fair to bottom tier MM light cruisers such as Bayard? 

How is this a nerf?  The whines are getting really out of hand.

Changes on test server are neither buffs nor nerfs.  Only once they hit live do they become buffs or nerfs and the ships in question cannot pen 38mm using IFHE on live and so, should the current test version go live they will have neither been buffed nor nerfed in terms of penetrating 38mm of plating.  The fact that a prior test version had them penetrating 38mm of plating is irrelevant in considering whether this is a buff or a nerf.

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3 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

How is this a nerf?  The whines are getting really out of hand.

Changes on test server are neither buffs nor nerfs.  Only once they hit live do they become buffs or nerfs and the ships in question cannot pen 38mm using IFHE on live and so, should the current test version go live they will have neither been buffed nor nerfed in terms of penetrating 38mm of plating.  The fact that a prior test version had them penetrating 38mm of plating is irrelevant in considering whether this is a buff or a nerf.

don't be so negative!

Weak and defenceless Supercruisers such as Puerto Rico will have improved survivability.

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Just now, LoveBote said:

don't be so negative!

Weak and defenceless Supercruisers such as Puerto Rico will have improved survivability.

Again, you called it a nerf when it is not, it is simply the status quo.  38mm of plating cannot be penetrated on live and if this test version is final 38mm of plating still won't be penetrated.

Also, the biggest issue with 38mm plating is high tier US battleship decks.  That is where the outcry came from when the prior test version allowed 152mm IFHE to penetrate 38mm plating.

Edited by Helstrem

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35 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

Well I wonder, I mean how many high tier ships have 38 mm armour?

image.thumb.png.6b4a6bce09430adfa464b4e99a181ccf.png

image.thumb.png.2729c2f5372e6b7c69e1cd55efb0f76f.png

anyone have a list?

USN BBs I believe.

31 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

The entire HE pen ratio / armor thickness change is ill-advised, and will produce multiple bad "unintended" effects.

 

This. If it has to be made this complicated to work, something is wrong with the fundamental idea.

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56 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

image.png.1a2e7c77e8c4bf4ba43aeb03680fa824.png

source

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Obviously title is clickbait, the 38 mm nerf to IFHE at tiers 8-10 will benefit any ship whose 38mm is currently overmatched by light cruiser 152/155 mm equipped with IFHE.

is this nerf needed? Is it fair to bottom tier MM light cruisers such as Bayard? 

 

7 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

How is this a nerf?  The whines are getting really out of hand.

Changes on test server are neither buffs nor nerfs.  Only once they hit live do they become buffs or nerfs and the ships in question cannot pen 38mm using IFHE on live and so, should the current test version go live they will have neither been buffed nor nerfed in terms of penetrating 38mm of plating.  The fact that a prior test version had them penetrating 38mm of plating is irrelevant in considering whether this is a buff or a nerf.

This ^^^^ in spades 

 

3 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

don't be so negative!

Weak and defenceless Supercruisers such as Puerto Rico will have improved survivability.

Bovine excrement

Currently T8+ 152 / 6 = 25.3333 rounded to 25mm, so pens 24mm. IFHE 25 * 1.3 = 32.5, so pens 32mm.

 

PTS part 1 T8+ 152 / 5 = 30.4 rounded to 30mm, so pens 30mm. IFHE 30 * 1.3 = 39, so pens 39mm.

 

PTS 2 T8+ 152 / 5 = 30.4 rounded to 30mm, so pens 30mm. IFHE 30 * 1.25 = 37.5, so pens 37mm.

 

The new rules are clearly a buff to T8+ 152-155mm guns, so your premise that PTS2 is a nerf is laughable and without merit.

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Are they freaking trolling! 0.1 second??? What the frack is that? That's not even noticeable on most computers...

Atlanta needs 1 second off her reload, and an additional 1km on her range: Flint too. The Atlanta cousins isn't Kremlin. Kremlin is power creeping the power creep...

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2 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

Are they freaking trolling! 0.1 second??? What the frack is that? That's not even noticeable on most computers...

Atlanta needs 1 second off her reload, and an additional 1km on her range: Flint too. The Atlanta cousins isn't Kremlin. Kremlin is power creeping the power creep...

Over a 20min battle, without BFT & AR, you go from 240 to 244 salvos with a 4.9s reload on Atlanta/Flint. So yeah, it's mostly for show.

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A fun part is that IJN 100mm is getting another HE Pen Buff.  They have better Pen than larger 127mm guns.

The armor penetration of some Japanese ships' shells is changed as follows:

  • Armor penetration of 100mm main caliber HE shells of Akizuki, Kitakaze, Harugumo, HSF Harekaze changed from 25 to 30 mm;

  • Armor penetration of 100mm secondary armament HE shells of Ibuki, Zao, Yoshino, Azuma, Kii, Shikishima, Hakuryu changed from 25 to 30 mm.

Now the armor penetration of these shells is aligned with the new HE shell penetration of Tier VIII - X ships with 152-155 mm caliber guns, the same as before the changes.

Source

All these different rules for Penetration by tier bracket is silly.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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5 minutes ago, Crokodone said:

Are they freaking trolling! 0.1 second??? What the frack is that? That's not even noticeable on most computers...

Atlanta needs 1 second off her reload, and an additional 1km on her range: Flint too. The Atlanta cousins isn't Kremlin. Kremlin is power creeping the power creep...

The problem with making changes is you have to look at the possibly effects.  In this case, the Atlanta/Flint are hands down the best DD killers out there.  Overbuff the reload and its a nerf to DDs.  What should be looked is changes to give these ships the same armor buffs as the other cruisers.  That would be a very easy place to start.

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4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A fun part is that IJN 100mm is getting another HE Pen Buff.  They have better Pen than larger 127mm guns.

The armor penetration of some Japanese ships' shells is changed as follows:

  • Armor penetration of 100mm main caliber HE shells of Akizuki, Kitakaze, Harugumo, HSF Harekaze changed from 25 to 30 mm;

  • Armor penetration of 100mm secondary armament HE shells of Ibuki, Zao, Yoshino, Azuma, Kii, Shikishima, Hakuryu changed from 25 to 30 mm.

Now the armor penetration of these shells is aligned with the new HE shell penetration of Tier VIII - X ships with 152-155 mm caliber guns, the same as before the changes.

Source

All these different rules for Penetration by tier bracket is silly.

Very silly.

And giving a select set of 100mm guns better HE pen than 127mm guns is a perfect example of how these sorts of things spiral downward.

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A fun part is that IJN 100mm is getting another HE Pen Buff.  They have better Pen than larger 127mm guns.

The armor penetration of some Japanese ships' shells is changed as follows:

  • Armor penetration of 100mm main caliber HE shells of Akizuki, Kitakaze, Harugumo, HSF Harekaze changed from 25 to 30 mm;

  • Armor penetration of 100mm secondary armament HE shells of Ibuki, Zao, Yoshino, Azuma, Kii, Shikishima, Hakuryu changed from 25 to 30 mm.

Now the armor penetration of these shells is aligned with the new HE shell penetration of Tier VIII - X ships with 152-155 mm caliber guns, the same as before the changes.

Source

All these different rules for Penetration by tier bracket is silly.

Yeah. 100mm IJN guns will now pen like 180mm guns. Because 2.1lb of explosive breaks armor like 15+lb of explosive. :Smile_facepalm:

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15 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

The problem with making changes is you have to look at the possibly effects.  In this case, the Atlanta/Flint are hands down the best DD killers out there.  Overbuff the reload and its a nerf to DDs. 

And that's how the downward spiral starts. 

Changes to HE pen and armor thickness, and tier-based effects from IFHE, all to "fix" IFHE -- instead of just changing IFHE. 

Specific ships given special buffs in a misguided attempt to counter-balance those changes... which makes thing worse for OTHER ships.

Those ships in turn messed with to deal with it, messing up some other balance. 

Etc.

 

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12 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Very silly.

And giving a select set of 100mm guns better HE pen than 127mm guns is a perfect example of how these sorts of things spiral downward.

 

This has been this way for a long time. It's not a new thing, so if it's part of a spiral, it's an old segment.

The 1/4th pen they currently have, matching them to 1/6th pen 152 mm cannons, is being upgraded to 3/10th pen to match 1/5th pen 152 mm cannons.

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The only thing that needed to happen was WG's 50% Fire Chance Reduction with IFHE taken.

That's it.

All this other stuff doesn't need to happen.  The Fire Chance reduction should fix what was the core problem with the trait since it was introduced.  All the other changes is making a bigger mess.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The only thing that needed to happen was WG's 50% Fire Chance Reduction with IFHE taken.

That's it.

All this other stuff doesn't need to happen.  The Fire Chance reduction should fix what was the core problem with the trait since it was introduced.  All the other changes is making a bigger mess.

    I don't totally disagree with this, they could even make it ~60-75% reduction. I don't think some armor changes are bad but those could be done totally separate of all of this too and maybe on a nation per nation basis. The fact 18in guns litter the T8-T10 MM means 30mm is not really all that special now anyway. Maybe that's why the new Soviet cruisers are wearing more 50mm armor.

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7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The only thing that needed to happen was WG's 50% Fire Chance Reduction with IFHE taken.

That's it.

All this other stuff doesn't need to happen.  The Fire Chance reduction should fix what was the core problem with the trait since it was introduced.  All the other changes is making a bigger mess.

I agree

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37 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

Yeah. 100mm IJN guns will now pen like 180mm guns. Because 2.1lb of explosive breaks armor like 15+lb of explosive. :Smile_facepalm:

They'll be citadelling broadside Kremlins.

(Ok, Sovieitski Soyuz's)

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35 minutes ago, Enpra said:

This has been this way for a long time. It's not a new thing, so if it's part of a spiral, it's an old segment.

The 1/4th pen they currently have, matching them to 1/6th pen 152 mm cannons, is being upgraded to 3/10th pen to match 1/5th pen 152 mm cannons.

Shouldn't have been "special pen" on those guns to begin with.

 

23 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The only thing that needed to happen was WG's 50% Fire Chance Reduction with IFHE taken.

That's it.

All this other stuff doesn't need to happen.  The Fire Chance reduction should fix what was the core problem with the trait since it was introduced.  All the other changes is making a bigger mess.

Agreed, 100%.

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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