Ranked DD back to the bottom...

[Sou1forge]

We finally had it to a reasonable, but still painful level, but its back. The good ol' "I got 5 caps, spotted, didn't die, oh look I'm bottom of the team" is back.

 

This needs to change WG. DDs should not be second class citizens, and in ranked you treat them as such. 76k damage, a LARGE amount of caps, and over 100k spotting damage in a CV game is game defining, yet you treat it like I was twiddling my thumbs in a corner.

And yes, every one of those caps was a full alone cap. All but two were center point caps. 3 were heals.

[TheKrimzonDemon]

If you think there's more than 1 cap in Arms Race, you've been seriously misinformed. The reality is, you got out-damaged, and that's what put you at the bottom. Arms Race vastly increases the amount of damage that can be dealt. You don't get extra points just because there was a CV there, a CV, I might add, that spent pretty much all its time going after things that were, in point of fact, not you. Also, you got one, just one, spotted ribbon. I'd like to know how you got 100k off that, because I know that the second you spotted whatever it was, your team didn't do 100k to it. That doesn't even happen in Clan Battles, where the team is acting like it's, well, you know, a team. 

 

You got outplayed by your team. Live with it, it's just a game. A game, I should add, that YOU WON. Calm your ships, man.

 

Lord, save me.

[Snargfargle]

58 minutes ago, Sou1forge said:

We finally had it to a reasonable, but still painful level, but its back. The good ol' "I got 5 caps, spotted, didn't die, oh look I'm bottom of the team" is back.

 

This needs to change WG. DDs should not be second class citizens, and in ranked you treat them as such. 76k damage, a LARGE amount of caps, and over 100k spotting damage in a CV game is game defining, yet you treat it like I was twiddling my thumbs in a corner.

And yes, every one of those caps was a full alone cap. All but two were center point caps. 3 were heals.

Those were not caps they were just buffs. You don't get a lot of XP for taking them because you get the benefits instead. Also, it's not that you did poorly, your team just did great.

[legozer]

1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

Those were not caps they were just buffs. You don't get a lot of XP for taking them because you get the benefits instead. Also, it's not that you did poorly, your team just did great.

Getting 6 buffs gave his team the chance to do so well.

Those buffs don't get themselves....

[Commander_367]

2 hours ago, Sou1forge said:

We finally had it to a reasonable, but still painful level, but its back. The good ol' "I got 5 caps, spotted, didn't die, oh look I'm bottom of the team" is back.

 

This needs to change WG. DDs should not be second class citizens, and in ranked you treat them as such. 76k damage, a LARGE amount of caps, and over 100k spotting damage in a CV game is game defining, yet you treat it like I was twiddling my thumbs in a corner.

And yes, every one of those caps was a full alone cap. All but two were center point caps. 3 were heals.

Anybody who plays DDs knows … 

1) You're expendable 

2) You're a Gopher 

 

Gopher caps, Gopher spotting, Gopher Die :)

[Sou1forge]

1 hour ago, TheKrimzonD3mon said:

If you think there's more than 1 cap in Arms Race, you've been seriously misinformed. The reality is, you got out-damaged, and that's what put you at the bottom. Arms Race vastly increases the amount of damage that can be dealt. You don't get extra points just because there was a CV there, a CV, I might add, that spent pretty much all its time going after things that were, in point of fact, not you. Also, you got one, just one, spotted ribbon. I'd like to know how you got 100k off that, because I know that the second you spotted whatever it was, your team didn't do 100k to it. That doesn't even happen in Clan Battles, where the team is acting like it's, well, you know, a team. 

 

You got outplayed by your team. Live with it, it's just a game. A game, I should add, that YOU WON. Calm your ships, man.

 

Lord, save me.

I got 100k because I kept 2-3 BBs lit up, and a Smol most of the game. It was super-standoffish except for the DM on our side, who managed to roll their forces on the east. I did the correct DD thing, kept their BBs from making a move into the middle, and hoovered up the consumables. 

There were two differences between our teams. Our DM who carried east flank, and the fact their Shima was a Shima and I wasn't. So they got few consumables, no ground, and lost. The issue is, absolutely nothing I did right counts for anything because it doesn't go into the XP formula. With old ranked you could at least get a free cap or two maybe. In this one you get suck at the bottom because Torps, little guns, and fires scale horribly when BBs heal back an obscene amount of damage from friendly heal zones. Then you add the CV dance and the radar spam, and it's kinda not worth trying. If they gave you porportional XP for consumables? Maybe. But this game was an example. 6 100% consumable caps. Last on XP.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Looks to me the Des Moines did the real heavy lifting.

The team did very well overall, especially considering 1415 BaseXP was the lowest.  The entire green team survived and the reds got butchered.

[Taichunger]

Looks like a typical DD game which most DVD players would be quite satisfied with. It's your job to do your job and support the others to get the win. You seem to have done that.  Congratulations on a well-deserved win!

[Final8ty]

1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Looks to me the Des Moines did the real heavy lifting.

The team did very well overall, especially considering 1415 BaseXP was the lowest.  The entire green team survived and the reds got butchered.

But how well would the team do overall if the DD was not risking his neck spotting and getting the buffs.

 

[Final8ty]

13 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Looks like a typical DD game which most DVD players would be quite satisfied with. It's your job to do your job and support the others to get the win. You seem to have done that.  Congratulations on a well-deserved win!

A typical DD game would be a dead DD. 

[SidTheBlade]

You got rolled, son. Submit a complaint with the Complaints Supervisor of the Complaints department.

I had a weird one yesterday. I got a high calibre achievement and did 147 k of damage, in a loss. Nobody else got any award at all. Yet, I came second behind a Smolensk who sat and farmed two BBs all game. He got the star.

Broke-en, mah bru.

Broke-en.

[Shoggoth_pinup]

5 hours ago, TheKrimzonD3mon said:

If you think there's more than 1 cap in Arms Race, you've been seriously misinformed. The reality is, you got out-damaged, and that's what put you at the bottom. Arms Race vastly increases the amount of damage that can be dealt. You don't get extra points just because there was a CV there, a CV, I might add, that spent pretty much all its time going after things that were, in point of fact, not you. Also, you got one, just one, spotted ribbon. I'd like to know how you got 100k off that, because I know that the second you spotted whatever it was, your team didn't do 100k to it. That doesn't even happen in Clan Battles, where the team is acting like it's, well, you know, a team. 

 

You got outplayed by your team. Live with it, it's just a game. A game, I should add, that YOU WON. Calm your ships, man.

 

Lord, save me.

...And? Spotting ribbon has nothing to do with spotting, just first/after 90 seconds spottings. Not only that, but multiple people can get credit for spotting damage. His spotting could have been redundant with the CV or more, reducing the credit.

[bob_ninja]

OP has a valid point, albeit he didn't explain it properly.

Correct, seems XP for getting buffs is much less (or zero) than for caps. He did get 3 heals, which actually demonstrates the problem very well.

Bigger ships with more HP (BB and CA) benefit from heal buffs far more than a tiny DD. OP basically increased their survivability by a huge factor. That allows his BB/CA mates to do even more damage and more XP causing him to be left behind at the bottom.

Concordantly as long as damage yields the most XP, any support role will be at a great disadvantage, especially when heal buffs increase ship endurance. Since DDs by definition are support role ships they are pretty much screwed. I played couple of Daring matches and for the rest of the season I am not playing DDs.

I am primarily DD player but in this format it just doesn't work. I do prefer this arms race format MUCH MORE, but sadly you might as well ban DDs altogether from it. They only help bigger ships and are left with scraps from the table.

[rutilius83]

i get it sir. XP should be weighted for the ship class. DD should get more XP for doing DD things just as a BB should get more XP for doing BB things. 

this would be both the job of the ship in life and the job in game. they are not the same thing mores the pitty. 

[TheKrimzonDemon]

3 hours ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

...And? Spotting ribbon has nothing to do with spotting, just first/after 90 seconds spottings. Not only that, but multiple people can get credit for spotting damage. His spotting could have been redundant with the CV or more, reducing the credit.

100% incorrect, that ribbon has everything to do with it, because it means he was only one time the closest of his team when a ship popped into view. This means he wasn't actually doing, you know, the DD things he claims so strongly he was doing. I can guarantee you the DM did far more spotting than he did. The fact is, the game wasn't rigged against him, he just didn't stay in front and do enough damage, and that's on him. I've gotten over 100k spotting damage in a GK, and I assure you, I wasn't getting it from 15km back, I got it because I was actually closer to the reds than my DDs were.

[bob_ninja]

To be fair to WG, trying to measure indirect contribution from a DD to other team ships is very difficult. If not done right it could probably be abused.

As an example in WOT they were thinking awarding XP to heavy tanks for blocked damage since that is their role, to use armor to push and block damage. However, you can easily take a Maus to a strong position with solid cover and simply peek and bounce shots all day long for no tactical purpose whatsoever. So they dropped that idea, never implemented.

I think this is their fear for DD XP that it could be abused. Nevertheless the problem remains. In randoms I don't care as much since few less XP is not a big deal. In super competitive modes like ranked it does matter very much.

[BarneyStyle]

I think I did similar damage, got 4 kills and probably 8 caps and was only 200 xp above the next ship.  I saved the star, but I’ve since switched to a cruiser to play Ranked, it’s far easier to save a star.

I agree, it takes massive effort to top the list in a DD, but...  you have to realize you helped your team win.  In ranked, all that matters is winning the game.  

[bob_ninja]

6 minutes ago, TheKrimzonD3mon said:

... This means he wasn't actually doing, you know, the DD things he claims so strongly he was doing. ... he just didn't stay in front and do enough damage, and that's on him ...

DD can stay in front and push forward only based on own team support and opposition faced. If enemy CV keeps him spotted, if Smolensk keeps focusing him, if Salem keeps showing his location with radar then he cannot be too far in front - he is dead. In ranked players generally know what to focus, so any DD caught too far forward is deleted. We cannot say if he was "doing DD things" and "in front" deep enough. This is frequent DD criticism including BBs who are 5-10 klicks behind a DD. I lost count how many times NCals are cruising 5-10 klicks behind me asking for intel.

[Ramsalot]

You got outplayed by your team.  There is rather high reward for taking down planes, and most of your teammates got decent number of planes down.  You don’t get rewarded as much for “capping” buff zones, because it really does not take much to drive by and snatch one on the go.  As far as spotting damage, it was never awarded as much as the actual damage, and your team seems to have done ample amount of raw damage.

[TheKrimzonDemon]

30 minutes ago, bob_ninja said:

DD can stay in front and push forward only based on own team support and opposition faced. If enemy CV keeps him spotted, if Smolensk keeps focusing him, if Salem keeps showing his location with radar then he cannot be too far in front - he is dead. In ranked players generally know what to focus, so any DD caught too far forward is deleted. We cannot say if he was "doing DD things" and "in front" deep enough. This is frequent DD criticism including BBs who are 5-10 klicks behind a DD. I lost count how many times NCals are cruising 5-10 klicks behind me asking for intel.

I play DD a lot, and based on my experience, and the scoring on his team, he had more than enough support, they shot down enough planes to keep him clear. He simply got outplayed by his team, which we've said repeatedly now.

 

We now whine about wins in this game, I mean, this guy is literally whining about his team actually being GOOD.

[Xlap]

Unfortunately this happens a lot. WG rewards dmg farmed and not objective control. Im seeing this a lot, the DD sets up the team but dont get enough rewards. The DD kill or pushes the enemy DD away, get buffs, spot enemy ships and pushes them away with torps, but allied ships deal the dmg and get the rewards. 

 

[Xlap]

7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Looks to me the Des Moines did the real heavy lifting.

The team did very well overall, especially considering 1415 BaseXP was the lowest.  The entire green team survived and the reds got butchered.

But this is the point, quite often the DD sets the team to do the "heavy lifting" and doesnt get the rewards. Quite often its the DD that spots the target so that other ships can deal dmg (like the DM), if it wasnt the DD, there would be no dmg, yet he is not rewarded. 

 

Sadly, this game rewards dmg farmed and not objective control. But you usually needs the "objective play" to deal the dmg. 

[Simers72]

DD in other ranked seasons benefits from caps and fighting other dds.. but because there is the only cap at the end and buffs don't seem to reward much xp and because of constant cv spotting.. it seems much harder to save star as a dd.  I generally will DD in ranked because by outplaying red dds you give your team a large advantage.  However in this ranked.. cv seems to be the one that provides that advantage.