Might have picked the wrong line to Grind? IJN DDs

[Col_Nasty]

Had my eyes on the Shima for quite a while.  On the way up it's been ok.  A couple of the DDs were actually pretty good.  Now I'm at T-9 Yugumo it's gotten absolutely PAINFUL!

I love My Gearing and My Fletch and was looking for a couple of new 9-10 DDs to round out my fleet.  Now I'm reading about so many nerfs to IJN DDs that happened a long time back that I didn't read about ( before I read the news regularly )  and I was really let down when I got the only Unique IJN Commanders to find out that there is nothing unique about him except his name. ( that was a while ago )  

Any suggestions?

[Fast_Battleship_Iowa]

15 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Any suggestions?

Don't bother with the Shimakaze.

It's the most handicapped & forgotten tier 10 destroyer you could possibly get. DDs already suffer by being situationally powerful ships, but the Shimakaze line especially takes that to a whole new level. You could go 1 game with 250,000 damage from floods & torpedoes to 15 in a row below 30k with maybe 1 or 2 torpedo hits. And with a class that can be as game-to-game variable as a destroyer, you want all the consistency you can get, something Shimakaze won't give you.

I'd backtrack for the Akizuki - Harugumo line if you still want something Japanese. Otherwise you have the Gearing and Fletcher, both of which are probably the best torpedo boats in the game (Gearing torpedo build is actually fun & viable, do recommend). British DDs are also good if you haven't tried them out yet.

[Col_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, Fast_Battleship_Iowa said:

Don't bother with the Shimakaze.

It's the most handicapped & forgotten tier 10 destroyer you could possibly get. DDs already suffer by being situationally powerful ships, but the Shimakaze line especially takes that to a whole new level. You could go 1 game with 250,000 damage from floods & torpedoes to 15 in a row below 30k with maybe 1 or 2 torpedo hits. And with a class that can be as game-to-game variable as a destroyer, you want all the consistency you can get, something Shimakaze won't give you.

I'd backtrack for the Akizuki - Harugumo line if you still want something Japanese. Otherwise you have the Gearing and Fletcher, both of which are probably the best torpedo boats in the game (Gearing torpedo build is actually fun & viable, do recommend). British DDs are also good if you haven't tried them out yet.

Haven't done much with  the British lines. I have a few CVs and Cruisers but I got them through events etc.  I know the Daring is a GUDBOTE so I would be starting off at t2 to get it.  May just do that.   I guess I'll move that 17 pnter that I was working for the Shima back down the line. 

Thnx for the input.

Col Out

[Taichunger]

The IJN torp boats are in a really bad spot. With the CV-heavy meta, they lose their one big advantage, stealth. I'd set them aside until either the devs come to their senses or people stop playing CVs...

[macktkau2]

The IJN and US DD lines are extremely power crept. With the amount of radar and CV's, they become a liability to their teams.

[Karstodes]

37 minutes ago, Fast_Battleship_Iowa said:

It's the most handicapped & forgotten tier 10 destroyer you could possibly get.

Z52 says hello.

[Karstodes]

Just now, macktkau2 said:

The IJN and US DD lines are extremely power crept. With the amount of radar and CV's, they become a liability to their teams.

US DD line is quite solid. They are still a great jack of all trade master of none with great torpedo and gun that will not shy in face of almost any other DD in close range.

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

1 hour ago, Fast_Battleship_Iowa said:

Don't bother with the Shimakaze.

It's the most handicapped & forgotten tier 10 destroyer you could possibly get. DDs already suffer by being situationally powerful ships, but the Shimakaze line especially takes that to a whole new level. You could go 1 game with 250,000 damage from floods & torpedoes to 15 in a row below 30k with maybe 1 or 2 torpedo hits. And with a class that can be as game-to-game variable as a destroyer, you want all the consistency you can get, something Shimakaze won't give you.

I'd backtrack for the Akizuki - Harugumo line if you still want something Japanese. Otherwise you have the Gearing and Fletcher, both of which are probably the best torpedo boats in the game (Gearing torpedo build is actually fun & viable, do recommend). British DDs are also good if you haven't tried them out yet.

For being “Forgotten and Handicapped” there certainly are a ton of Shimakaze in battles and they can do well enough....

[SidTheBlade]

Ok, here is the thing.

The insane reload time means that, even though you have 15 torps, you torp DPM is actually about the same as a Gearing. But you gun DPM is half that of a gearing. And your smoke is WAY worse than a Gearing.

The clincher, however, is that the Gearing Torps have much better detection range. The Shima will really struggle to land torps on anything that is vaguely aware there is a Shima sending torps in the area.

The Asashio is probably a better DD than the Shima, because it has torp reload booster, meaning it can send 4 volleys at once. So it can out torp the Shima, in a single attack. These torps have much lower detection. They can only hit BBs and CVs, but guess what? With the Shima torp detection range, you wont be hitting anything except BBs with the Shima, too. 

Best of all, the Asashio is tier 8, so the match making is insanely preferable. Far less radar, and less powerful CVs. Sometimes you are top tier to teir 6 ships, which you can ROFL stomp all day long.

The Shima is simply a weak IJN ship, unfit for her tier. Like the Zao, it's whole gimmick is stealth and ambush, and at tier X, this is no longer a thing. Radar and CVs have completely destroyed stealth, as a game mechanic.

Lastly, the Legendary Upgrade Module for the Shima is a straight up nerf. So, enjoy that one, on top of the slow reload, the weak guns, and the highly visible torps.

I regret grinding the whole Shima line. The USN DDs are better in every way, and much more fun to play.

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

1 hour ago, Col_Nasty said:

Had my eyes on the Shima for quite a while.  On the way up it's been ok.  A couple of the DDs were actually pretty good.  Now I'm at T-9 Yugumo it's gotten absolutely PAINFUL!

I love My Gearing and My Fletch and was looking for a couple of new 9-10 DDs to round out my fleet.  Now I'm reading about so many nerfs to IJN DDs that happened a long time back that I didn't read about ( before I read the news regularly )  and I was really let down when I got the only Unique IJN Commanders to find out that there is nothing unique about him except his name. ( that was a while ago )  

Any suggestions?

Are you using the Torpedo Reload Booster or Smoke?

[Fast_Battleship_Iowa]

18 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

For being “Forgotten and Handicapped” there certainly are a ton of Shimakaze in battles and they can do well enough....

For me it's all about consistency. I just can't find torpedo-based ships that consistent with my playstyle, so I typically tend to stay away from them.

[SidTheBlade]

17 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Are you using the Torpedo Reload Booster or Smoke?

This choice is revealing, for the Yugamo. Do you choose torp reload booster, and become a French DD with no speed and no guns, or do you choose smoke, and become a USN DD with bad smoke, weak guns, and meh torps?

It's nasty. the Shima line is nasty. Their big thing is ambush and low detection, but now we have CVs, radar, and ultra high detection on their torps.

The Shima line has been smashed very hard with the nerf bat. It ain't right.

[Noworriesderpy1]

I can only address playing Shimakaze  in COOP and it requires an extreme build and use of the torp launchers wisely....meaning use each of the 3 torp launchers independently which will lessen the impact of that long reloads  (by the time you unloaded the 3rd launcher your 1st should be available).   reload is down to 100secs with the use of  F3 torp launcher.  ( 3rd option) and Torp Armament Expertise Capt skill  

I also utilize the torp accelerator but you will be handicapped by a shorter range (6.4KM) but increase the speed of the torps to 81KM ( 85KM) with the torpedo tubes modification 1   (when your within the 6.4 KM  and with the speed of the torps I have found the BOTs ability to dodge is significantly reduced.)

To me at least this type of build places the Shimakaze like the other 3 launcher Japanese DDs such as the tier VI Fubuki and Tier VII Akatsuki    you utilizing the DD as an 3 torp launcher and less as gunboat         

 That being said though for me at least actually I have just as much fun if not more with the Harugumo  

 

[IfYouSeeKhaos]

1 hour ago, SidTheBlade said:

The Asashio...has torp reload booster, meaning it can send 4 volleys at once.

Actually it has an 8 second delay (I do believe...but not sure exactly how much...just that there is a delay) for the TRB to activate...which means there is the standard 2 racks & time to prepare for maneuvering for the other 2 racks whereas the Wall of Skill is a 3rd rack right on top of the 1st 2 racks.

CVs can be a pain at the start but an IJN DD should be able to stay quite stealthy even w/a CV (not charging straight for a cap m2ay be required though)...I can in my Gearing most of the time & IJN has better detection & maneuverability so they should be able to.

[Commander_367]

4 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Had my eyes on the Shima for quite a while.  On the way up it's been ok.  A couple of the DDs were actually pretty good.  Now I'm at T-9 Yugumo it's gotten absolutely PAINFUL!

I love My Gearing and My Fletch and was looking for a couple of new 9-10 DDs to round out my fleet.  Now I'm reading about so many nerfs to IJN DDs that happened a long time back that I didn't read about ( before I read the news regularly )  and I was really let down when I got the only Unique IJN Commanders to find out that there is nothing unique about him except his name. ( that was a while ago )  

Any suggestions?

Yeah, don't buy Hayate … 

And wait for Subs! You'll get to screw everyone over including the developers :)

[dEsTurbed1]

5 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Had my eyes on the Shima for quite a while.  On the way up it's been ok.  A couple of the DDs were actually pretty good.  Now I'm at T-9 Yugumo it's gotten absolutely PAINFUL!

I love My Gearing and My Fletch and was looking for a couple of new 9-10 DDs to round out my fleet.  Now I'm reading about so many nerfs to IJN DDs that happened a long time back that I didn't read about ( before I read the news regularly )  and I was really let down when I got the only Unique IJN Commanders to find out that there is nothing unique about him except his name. ( that was a while ago )  

Any suggestions?

Yugo has great detection range.

Very useful torps.

More a late game line.

[Tekina_]

I loved the Yuugumo, it was probably the easiest grind I have ever had to do. The combination of TRB, that concealment, and 12km torpedos was a pleasure to play(This was during the height of the CV rework by the way). If you are running smoke you are doing it wrong. The guns aren't that bad either.

[Alabamastan]

    Yugumo is probably one of the stronger DDs at tier once you learn its potentials. There is nothing wrong with playing other things then coming back to ships once you have new understandings of the game as well. The detection radius of the ship makes it extremely dangerous because it is able to out spot most of its would be hunters, if you build it appropriately it is one of the more able cap contesting/vision control DDs in game. It has high great detection, alpha HE for ambush and opportunity shots … and it has very capable torps on top of that.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

7 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Any suggestions?

I summon @Destroyer_KuroshioKai to your aid. Until he arrives, I suggest you go have a look at his YouTube. There's a lot of helpful stuff to be found there, and if you are floundering and don't know how he will do a replay analysis for you and help you get better. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-CVV_QxU4CesZL5pvdJw4A and enjoy.

[PIGARD]

IJN DDs are most fun to play at Tier IV and V, Isokaze and Minekaze.

 

Minekaze ruled the first six months of WoW, it was the best ship afloat.

It needed to be nerfed back then but they've gone too far now.

[Brhinosaurus]

Guess I'm the weirdo that likes Shimakaze.

Yugumo and Kagero are good too, although to really play them right you have to take TRB instead of smoke which is ballsy in this meta.

[Skpstr]

10 minutes ago, PIGARD said:

IJN DDs are most fun to play at Tier IV and V, Isokaze and Minekaze.

I found that, once past Fubuki, Akatsuki was an absolute gem. 

Kagero, not so much. I feel naked without smoke. And without TRB, all I'm getting is a bit more concealment, playing against more radar, and gaining the ability to be run down by ctuisers lol.

Never mind that I prefer 3x3 to 2x4 launchers that load 50% slower. (I'm ok with the slower torps)

[Aetius05]

IJN DDs are very difficult to play in today's game. They have concealment and the hardest hitting torpedos, that's it. You either make them work for you, or you die and do nothing. Sometimes the best thing you can do is spot and just sit there not shooting while reloading your torps. Your guns will never prevail over another DD in a fair fight, solution; never fight fair, be an opportunist and hit your enemy while they're not actively fighting you. Start fires on larger ships when their guns are not facing you, but don't open water gunboat after they shoot back. Don't sit in smoke and farm, you will get torps sent your way if the other DDs are still alive, not to mention your DPM sucks and you're actively sacrificing your strength of concealment. IJN smoke isn't the best but it's great for covering friendly cruisers. IJN DDs, while difficult, can be very rewarding if you play to your strengths.

As for the Shimakaze, I was not impressed with her when I unlocked her. Yugumo seemed more maneuverable, had better gun range and torp reload. Shima is the ultimate torpedo specialist, but you cannot take your 15 torp salvo for granted; they take over 2 minutes to reload and are some of the most visible ones in the game. The 20km torps only punish foes camping at range where they don't expect torps regardless or at knife fighting range where detection doesn't matter. 12km torps are your bread and butter, the best all around but they can't do everything. The best way to use them is to deploy them in an area you KNOW the enemy will be. Sometimes you can line them on unaware BBs sailing straight, but don't count on it. If you see an enemy push coming through a cap or narrow area, this is your golden opportunity to throw them in one area and you will get hits not only on your intended target but very often others too. Watch your target's and learn to predict their behavior. In T10 you have many cruisers who bow tank next to islands. Get to a position where they have the island behind them, to where you aren't directly in front of them. Let loose all 15 torps on them accounting for a little reversing here and there and you will make them pay. All in all, Shimakaze is very capable but only with a plan.

EDIT: I'm still learning how to play mine even with 72 games but I'm enjoying her more now than ever. My PR is almost 1600 with 54k avg damage and 64% WR. I perform way above average in her compared to my overall stats.

[Destroyer_KuroshioKai]

22 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Had my eyes on the Shima for quite a while.  On the way up it's been ok.  A couple of the DDs were actually pretty good.  Now I'm at T-9 Yugumo it's gotten absolutely PAINFUL!

I love My Gearing and My Fletch and was looking for a couple of new 9-10 DDs to round out my fleet.  Now I'm reading about so many nerfs to IJN DDs that happened a long time back that I didn't read about ( before I read the news regularly )  and I was really let down when I got the only Unique IJN Commanders to find out that there is nothing unique about him except his name. ( that was a while ago )  

Any suggestions?

A lot going on in this thread.  I'm not going to waste time rebutting it, everyone most likely knows my position.  I'll just say I'll agree to disagree.

The quickest way to sort you out is to invite you to my Discord, and send me a replay from a recent Yugumo/Shima game.  I'll send back a private YT video with my coaching commentary to your game.  Discord is free, and you wont need a mic on my server unless you wanted to go in the voice channels.

https://discord.gg/3Mm85HN