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Now that Femennenly has left WG..

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I attended Anchors Away on USS Iowa last November.      

Of the WoWs staff present, Fem was by far the most engaging with the audience, and brought the most energy.  

She'll be hard to replace.   :cap_yes:

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I won't lie, I miss the RTS CVs, but they had to be changed. I think WG overdid it a bit, because they were thinking about porting the controls to console at the time. I am actually working on a suggestion for bringing them back that could be a win for everyone, although I am sure the Anti-CVers will still attack me over it.

Here's a hint: imagine both CV types in the game at the same time, and an interplay of the mechanics.

As far as the topic of Fem leaving, I am fairly certain she was the best player in the office. Before she joined, the bad gameplay of the employees was kind of a running joke, so they proceeded to get one of the best RTS era CV players in the world on the staff, which stopped that joke dead in it's tracks, although to be fair, she is actually pretty good at the other ships too. Now that she is gone, I am not sure who the title passes to now, although it is likely @Hapa_Fodder.  For those who don't know, Fem is the all time leader in battles played in Hakuryu, and most of those were before the rework. She played over 3000 battles in it and boasted a near 70% win rate.

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Just now, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I won't lie, I miss the RTS CVs, but they had to be changed. I think WG overdid it a bit, because they were thinking about porting the controls to console at the time. I am actually working on a suggestion for bringing them back that could be a win for everyone, although I am sure the Anti-CVers will still attack me over it.

Here's a hint: imagine both CV types in the game at the same time, and an interplay of the mechanics.

As far as the topic of Fem leaving, I am fairly certain she was the best player in the office. Before she joined, the bad gameplay of the employees was kind of a running joke, so they proceeded to get one of the best RTS era CV players in the world on the staff, which stopped that joke dead in it's tracks, although to be fair, she is actually pretty good at the other ships too. Now that she is gone, I am not sure who the title passes to now, although it is likely @Hapa_Fodder.  For those who don't know, Fem is the all time leader in battles played in Hakuryu, and most of those were before the rework. She played over 3000 battles in it and boasted a near 70% win rate.

I remember playing in CVs versus Fem, an honestly exceptional player at the time, one of the top ten in the world of RTS cv gameplay. I only found myself opposing fem a few times, I think when she dropped a few tiers to muck about at t7 or 8, but by god those battles felt epic, even as I was crushed!

Good games require not only gitting gud, not only having  a good team, but the best battles have awesome (purply) enemies too/

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2 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I won't lie, I miss the RTS CVs, but they had to be changed.

Eliminate the manual attacks (especially strafing) and tighten up the auto-attacks a bit. There. That closes the skill gap to just depending on positioning and target selection.

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20 minutes ago, ThumperD702 said:

She'll be hard to replace.   :cap_yes:


Not so difficult as you might think: there’s a certain Corgi who got laid off a couple days ago, and would come back in a heartbeat if the arrangements could be worked out...

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2 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

Eliminate the manual attacks (especially strafing) and tighten up the auto-attacks a bit. There. That closes the skill gap to just depending on positioning and target selection.

For sure I felt powerful and competent when my Bogue was top tier and I didn't have to deal with Independences, T7 Rangers and such strafing my aircraft out of the sky (I never had time to master the trick at T6 before the rework came in). I thought your solution was the right one at first, but on reflection I am no longer so sure it would have solved all the issues.

There were things like juggling multiple different air groups at once as you rose up the tiers (advantage to gifted multitaskers), and simultaneous cross drops (even on automatic), and being able to hover spent air groups permanently over DD smoke, and so on and so on. There were more issues than just the manual strikes and strafing that were widening the skill gap.

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9 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

Eliminate the manual attacks (especially strafing) and tighten up the auto-attacks a bit. There. That closes the skill gap to just depending on positioning and target selection.

all CV players would be bad then, because the good ones wouldn't enjoy playing such a heavily kneecapped playstyle of all autodrops. They really just needed that flooding nerf and lowered alpha damage from strikes.

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3 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

all CV players would be bad then, because the good ones wouldn't enjoy playing such a heavily kneecapped playstyle of all autodrops. They really just needed that flooding nerf and lowered alpha damage from strikes.

also an end to stacking torp bombers, which because of the number guaranteed torp hits, greatly increased the number of dev strikes. On the other hand cross drops required concentration, planning and some keyboard finger twisting to set up, stacked drops required none of that, stacking was the sledgehammer approach to watch repair.

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16 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

I remember playing in CVs versus Fem, an honestly exceptional player at the time, one of the top ten in the world of RTS cv gameplay. I only found myself opposing fem a few times, I think when she dropped a few tiers to muck about at t7 or 8, but by god those battles felt epic, even as I was crushed!

Good games require not only gitting gud, not only having  a good team, but the best battles have awesome (purply) enemies too/

As great as she was in Hakuryu, she was even better in Graf Zeppelin. I saw her get 8+ kills in it on 3 separate occasions.

15 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

Eliminate the manual attacks (especially strafing) and tighten up the auto-attacks a bit. There. That closes the skill gap to just depending on positioning and target selection.

Yeah, strafes and manual drops can never come back, PERIOD!

6 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

For sure I felt powerful and competent when my Bogue was top tier and I didn't have to deal with Independences, T7 Rangers and such strafing my aircraft out of the sky (I never had time to master the trick at T6 before the rework came in). I thought your solution was the right one at first, but on reflection I am no longer so sure it would have solved all the issues.

There were things like juggling multiple different air groups at once as you rose up the tiers (advantage to gifted multitaskers), and simultaneous cross drops (even on automatic), and being able to hover spent air groups permanently over DD smoke, and so on and so on. There were more issues than just the manual strikes and strafing that were widening the skill gap.

Another thing that could not come back is any type or cross dropping torpedoes. Even non-manual cross drops were deadly for DDs.

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey

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10 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

For sure I felt powerful and competent when my Bogue was top tier and I didn't have to deal with Independences, T7 Rangers and such strafing my aircraft out of the sky (I never had time to master the trick at T6 before the rework came in). I thought your solution was the right one at first, but on reflection I am no longer so sure it would have solved all the issues.

There were things like juggling multiple different air groups at once as you rose up the tiers (advantage to gifted multitaskers), and simultaneous cross drops (even on automatic), and being able to hover spent air groups permanently over DD smoke, and so on and so on. There were more issues than just the manual strikes and strafing that were widening the skill gap.

The days of watching old Tier VII Saipan wipe the skies clear of both enemy Tier VI & VII CVs, and then proceed to go rip into the surface ships of your team :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Anyways, do people want to know why the CV Rework came about?  A major reason was the disparity in skill between average CV player and the good ones.  Case in point is this very old thread.  This guy made it to Tier X Hakuryu and did not know what a Strafe was when an enemy Hakuryu made his entire strike group disappear.

 

A lot of people were p*ssed in that thread, including myself.  Even the Anti-CV guys were upset, because it's a fundamental thing even THEY knew about.  Strafing was a basic mechanic that CVs had to deal with even in lower tiers.  I remember playing Tier V Bogue after the USN CV changes in those days, and had games like my Bogue wiping the skies clear of an enemy V Zuiho and a Tier IV CV... I almost deplaned them both BEFORE I had to reload that fighter squad for the first time.  A lot of my opponents didn't know what a strafe was.  And when you had a bad CV player on your team in those days, your team was f--ked.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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5 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

Another thing that could not come back is any type or cross dropping torpedoes. Even non-manual cross drops were deadly for DDs.

I am always surprised by those who are so anti cross dropping, which were the most technically challenging sort of RTS era CV attacks to pull off successfully, yet nobody complains about stacking attacks, (grouping multiple squadrons for one single attack) which were far more common, and far more devastating, because the concentration of bombs and rockets, were not only unavoidable, but almost guaranteed dev strikes. Those who called for manual drops to be removed, I think misunderstood why manual drops were needed, which was to reduce the ease with which CVs could sink enemy ships, and to require greater CV effort than an auto dropped AP bomb down the funnels!

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4 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

Even non-manual cross drops were deadly for DDs.

Bot DD's are tricky to torpedo in a surface ship, but in the dying days of RTS I found I could drop with regularity on them in Hosho, Langley and Bogue, and in the US carriers there was no cross dropping. For some reason they did not "sense" air torpedoes in the same way.

5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A major reason was the disparity in skill between average CV player and the good ones.  Case in point is this very old thread.  This guy made it to Tier X Hakuryu and did not know what a Strafe was when an enemy Hakuryu made his entire strike group disappear.

You have to be careful about the difference between a CV player who was poor because they were inexperienced/bad at multitasking and one who was poor because they were straight-out ignorant/incompetent. I could feel sorry for the inexperienced ones because that's what I was. Anyone who managed to get into the Hakuryu without knowing what a Strafe was needs to be beaten senseless with a wet ramen noodle. :Smile-_tongue:

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6 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

yet nobody complains about stacking attacks, (grouping multiple squadrons for one single attack) which were far more common, and far more devastating, because the concentration of bombs and rockets,

I think you mean bombs and torpedoes, as RTS carriers never had rockets. 

My experience of manual drops is that they were more difficult to do, more lethal when done well. That second bit was the one I had problems with, but even manual attacks had a degree of automaticity to them. What we have now is the ultimate in manual attacks. 

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8 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I think you mean bombs and torpedoes, as RTS carriers never had rockets. 

My experience of manual drops is that they were more difficult to do, more lethal when done well. That second bit was the one I had problems with, but even manual attacks had a degree of automaticity to them. What we have now is the ultimate in manual attacks. 

I never mentioned rockets. I should know what sort of munitions RTS cvs carried, Ensign. 

An attack could be conducted with torpedo bombers, HE and/or AP dive bombers.

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25 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

all CV players would be bad then, because the good ones wouldn't enjoy playing such a heavily kneecapped playstyle of all autodrops. They really just needed that flooding nerf and lowered alpha damage from strikes.

Boo frickin hoo.

I'd suggest removing ALL manual attacks.  ALL OF THEM.  Automatic attacks only.  If the "good" players can't handle that, screw'em.  The idea would be to be to level the playing field.  Good CV players would still be better than bad CV players. They just wouldn't be allowed to r@pe non-unicum CV mains like they used to in RTS.  It seems to me that your defense above is nothing more and nothing less than a defense of unicum  CV mains abusing the rest of the player base.  And that's EXACTLY why the rework was needed in the first place!!!

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

CV mains abusing the rest of the player base.  And that's EXACTLY why the rework was needed in the first place!!!

 

and also why it has failed, because basing the CV Rework on a fallacy, has left the element essential to all pvp gaming intact, skill (still) matters.

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27 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The days of watching old Tier VII Saipan wipe the skies clear of both enemy Tier VI & VII CVs, and then proceed to go rip into the surface ships of your team :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Anyways, do people want to know why the CV Rework came about?  A major reason was the disparity in skill between average CV player and the good ones.  Case in point is this very old thread.  This guy made it to Tier X Hakuryu and did not know what a Strafe was when an enemy Hakuryu made his entire strike group disappear

A lot of people were p*ssed in that thread, including myself.  Even the Anti-CV guys were upset, because it's a fundamental thing even THEY knew about.  Strafing was a basic mechanic that CVs had to deal with even in lower tiers.  I remember playing Tier V Bogue after the USN CV changes in those days, and had games like my Bogue wiping the skies clear of an enemy V Zuiho and a Tier IV CV... I almost deplaned them both BEFORE I had to reload that fighter squad for the first time.  A lot of my opponents didn't know what a strafe was.  And when you had a bad CV player on your team in those days, your team was f--ked.

To be fair, Haze, I think that it's very possible that that player who had no idea that strafe even existed may have never visited the forums before.  And exactly why are people blaming him for not knowing that strafing existed?  It'd be one thing to blame a guy for knowing that it existed but being bad at it and not  adjusting his tactics to deal with it.  But I have to wonder how many regular CV players who never visited the forums or watched CC videos actually knew about strafing or manual attacks?  The reality is that there are a lot of players who play the game but never visit the forums or watch CC videos and know nothing about the more advanced tactics that you and I take for granted.

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