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Sinboto

Graf zeppelin black observations.

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Been a while since I made something like this so I hope I'm not too rusty.

So I've been taking out the GZblack a bit more often for a  week or so, determined to make her work for me. Most of her planes are really bad with the RNG, well besides the torp bombers but the damage they do is kind of low but she drops three of them per run so yeah.  (tip, you absolutely want the torpedo acceleration skill)

The rockets are slow but hit decently hard, not tiny tim hard but decent, kind of random with the aim but you have a lot of them in a squadron. They are also very slow compared to the other planes for some reason, while I am on the topic the fighters are also somewhat slow and can be outrun with faster planes. 

The dive bombers especially rely on RNG a lot, to the point that I started out not using them unless I had to. I've tried everything with these planes, and the most I can gather is that WG really hated this ship because they are god awful against everything except the largest of targets, expect to miss with these A LOT as you learn them and even a bit after even against battleships and other CVs. (Tip, start your attack run slightly after the grey attack icon passes your target, I don't know why it's like this but it's better to do it this way in my experience.)

But still, she can be really fun if you stick with her. (especially when people get in secondary range, which considering the range is often) 

So you've got 2/3 of your planes that are somewhat reliable, one that isn't, and they are all really easy to shoot down so don't stick around in AA bubbles.

Also, there are the secondary guns which are amazing and a lot of fun, are very accurate and should someone engage you at close range you can do a lot of damage to them very quickly. If you build her for a mix of planes and secondary guns (and you should) I recommend taking the Mike Yanki Soxisix flag for the buff to secondary guns.  Between them and the planes you can punish many ships that attempt to get close to drop torps/shoot you or DDs that get spotted a bit too close. 

Please note that the ship itself is not very stealthy compared to the other T8 CVS so using islands for cover to get closer may be needed depending on the target of your ire. 

She has good armour for a CV but unfortunately, unlike implacable, it's below 32mm on the deck so she's kind of easy for other CVs and surface ships to damage via HE the deck specifically is very susceptible to USN and RN bombers via her deck should they get through the fighters and AA.(which is OK but not as good as some other CVs so expect attacks to get through) I have yet to be bombed by AP bombers so I can't comment.

And through my matches, I have come to realize something: she is really bad at reliably damaging targets with anything but the torps/guns and I'm glad I got her from a box because I'm not sure I would have bought her otherwise. 

BUT BESIDES THAT, I have found a target that she often faces that her horrendously bad dive bombers are PERFECT for taking on one of the strongest ships that she sees often.

This ship is a T9 premium BB and is very powerful against pretty much everything she faces even at T10 and especially when she's top tier and faces T7s. 

Some of you may have caught on already that I am talking about Musashi. Now I have this ship because, by chance, I picked her up before they pulled her. (lucky right?)

But the combo of her low AA, thicc frame and sparse superstructure means that she is a gold mine of AP citadels.

I've never played shoukaku,  which was a mistake because it meant I had to take the T10 into coop to learn her, but I'm sure she would do well against her as well since her AP bombers I hear are even better or so I hear. 

Finally, I have found a reliable target for these absolutely crap dive bombers! And it's a ship that if left alone can rage amongst my team and do tons of damage so I'm helping out a lot by damaging her. 

I'm a pretty average player but I hope that this helps someone out there one day, hopefully, some of you who have many battles in her can point out anything that I missed or correct any mistakes. 

 

Edited by Sinboto
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Good text and very useful info in there. I have the Graf Zeppelin and I use the secondary build on her, yes, it's a tricky carrier to master it. But if you know well her strengths and weakness, she can be a powerful carrier on your hands.

Her Attack planes are more effective against cruisers (especially light cruisers). Two days ago I made an 8k damage with a single rocket drop on a Shchors. The AP bombs, you really need a lot of luck to score 2 citadel hits, but if you hit you'll deal 14k damage almost the same damage as a BB salvo.

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1 hour ago, Sinboto said:

Been a while since I made something like this so I hope I'm not too rusty.

So I've been taking out the GZblack a bit more often for a  week or so, determined to make her work for me. Most of her planes are really bad with the RNG, well besides the torp bombers but the damage they do is kind of low but she drops three of them per run so yeah.  (tip, you absolutely want the torpedo acceleration skill)

The rockets are slow but hit decently hard, not tiny tim hard but decent, kind of random with the aim but you have a lot of them in a squadron. They are also very slow compared to the other planes for some reason, while I am on the topic the fighters are also somewhat slow and can be outrun with faster planes. 

The dive bombers especially rely on RNG a lot, to the point that I started out not using them unless I had to. I've tried everything with these planes, and the most I can gather is that WG really hated this ship because they are god awful against everything except the largest of targets, expect to miss with these A LOT as you learn them and even a bit after even against battleships and other CVs. (Tip, start your attack run slightly after the grey attack icon passes your target, I don't know why it's like this but it's better to do it this way in my experience.)

But still, she can be really fun if you stick with her. (especially when people get in secondary range, which considering the range is often) 

So you've got 2/3 of your planes that are somewhat reliable, one that isn't, and they are all really easy to shoot down so don't stick around in AA bubbles.

Also, there are the secondary guns which are amazing and a lot of fun, are very accurate and should someone engage you at close range you can do a lot of damage to them very quickly. If you build her for a mix of planes and secondary guns (and you should) I recommend taking the Mike Yanki Soxisix flag for the buff to secondary guns.  Between them and the planes you can punish many ships that attempt to get close to drop torps/shoot you or DDs that get spotted a bit too close. 

Please note that the ship itself is not very stealthy compared to the other T8 CVS so using islands for cover to get closer may be needed depending on the target of your ire. 

She has good armour for a CV but unfortunately, unlike implacable, it's below 32mm on the deck so she's kind of easy for other CVs and surface ships to damage via HE the deck specifically is very susceptible to USN and RN bombers via her deck should they get through the fighters and AA.(which is OK but not as good as some other CVs so expect attacks to get through) I have yet to be bombed by AP bombers so I can't comment.

And through my matches, I have come to realize something: she is really bad at reliably damaging targets with anything but the torps/guns and I'm glad I got her from a box because I'm not sure I would have bought her otherwise. 

BUT BESIDES THAT, I have found a target that she often faces that her horrendously bad dive bombers are PERFECT for taking on one of the strongest ships that she sees often.

This ship is a T9 premium BB and is very powerful against pretty much everything she faces even at T10 and especially when she's top tier and faces T7s. 

Some of you may have caught on already that I am talking about Musashi. Now I have this ship because, by chance, I picked her up before they pulled her. (lucky right?)

But the combo of her low AA, thicc frame and sparse superstructure means that she is a gold mine of AP citadels.

I've never played shoukaku,  which was a mistake because it meant I had to take the T10 into coop to learn her, but I'm sure she would do well against her as well since her AP bombers I hear are even. 

Finally, I have found a reliable target for these absolutely crap dive bombers! And it's a ship that if left alone can rage amongst my team and do tons of damage so I'm helping out a lot by damaging her. 

I'm a pretty average player but I hope that this helps someone out there one day, hopefully, some of you who have many battles in her can point out anything that I missed or correct any mistakes. 

 

It's like WG put Freddy's old dispersion and sigma and placed it on those AP bombers. You can make the perfect drop and almost like clockwork, you get 3 going left every time. You almost have to hold her absolutely still and yet, 1 in 3 is a citadel. 1 went in water, and the last one went slightly left.

I think most of the bomber pilots are cross-eyed like the bridge crew in space balls.

The bombers air speed is too fast for dive bomber or TB passes. You end up other side just on the edge of the flak. It's why planes die quick.

I tried no acceleration on the run and hitting breaks and banking to the side with less AA threat. If done tight z you stay under 4Kmz and can safely make a second pass. Otherwise, I accel away after a torp drop if AA is heavy. But again. Get your attack run early on TBs accel to close spread then let off align slowly, drop. No AA threat, stay on brakes and tighten turn or do a s turn to get back to target. The banking left and right slows you down faster than just brake alone.

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Here is another useful tip:
Use the dive bombers at the start of the game to do the initial scouting.

There are multiple good reasons for that:

  • They are fast and allow for quick spotting of which ship is where
  • At the start teams are close together so their is a lot of combined AA around and you will 100% lose planes. They are your weakest weapon and losing some of them isn't a big deal.
  • Not going rockets first allows the enenmy DDs to seperate themselves from their support making it easier for you to get them alone with your squshy rockets planes on the 2nd run
  • You might even get a lucky citadel hit or 2 into a Cruiser you find on your way.

You might also seriously consider using Lütjens commander. After next patch you only need 30 hits combined from all plane types to proc his talent.
This should be achieved pretty much every game and help with plane regenration.

Personally I do not like the hybrid build though. I'd go with this instead: https://wowsft.com/ship?index=PGSA518&modules=111111&upgrades=124310&commander=PGW103&skills=134899880&ar=100&flags=472&consumables=11


 

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Did anyone notice by chance that GZ secondaries have better accuracy than the Massa secondaries

I know they have a much shorter range ( 9.46km vs 11.3km), but still, 39m dispersion is pretty dang good, not gonna lie

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10 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Did anyone notice by chance that GZ secondaries have better accuracy than the Massa secondaries

I know they have a much shorter range ( 9.46km vs 11.3km), but still, 39m dispersion is pretty dang good, not gonna lie

CV secondary guns in general are very accurate. 

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Check you Toptier on you tube, GZ is his favorite CV and he does rather well in it.  He offers a lot of useful information regarding build and play.

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The AP bombers are quite deadly versus heavy and light cruisers. Both in angled approaches releasing with reticule alight with ship sides (vs Minotaur for example), or for a stern approach lining up reticule for turret tops to get a reasonable chance of a smokestack hit (versus Des Moines, for example). Obviously the chances of overpens are high, but the results can be quite magnificent. I actually find the AP bombs less reliable versus battleships.

The rocket fighters are supremely agile, and so excellent at launching an attack on enemy dds as soon as they spot, an attack window of 2.5 km is more than generous enough to land solid hits on dds. After one attack run your attack squadron can turn on a dime, and immediately recommence a fresh attack run. Not all CVs can boast this flexibility.

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Somewhat related to the OP. With the changes to IFHE, would it be an option to pickup if you’re running a secondary build on the GZ or is it not worth the four points? 

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10 hours ago, Mailman653 said:

Somewhat related to the OP. With the changes to IFHE, would it be an option to pickup if you’re running a secondary build on the GZ or is it not worth the four points? 

The secondary guns on the GZ already get a pen buff because she belongs to the German fleet (26 and 38 for the smaller and bigger guns respectively) personally I feel that this is enough to engage your main targets (cruisers and destroyers) with the secondary guns as well as pen the softer parts of battleships in a bind.  You also take a hit to the fire chance of the ship.

In short, I think it's best you spend your points elsewhere. 

 

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