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gamer_60

Recognizing the game is lost

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Just lost 3 games in a row in the donskoi. While GIT GUD obviously applies, it got me thinking. At what point do you recognize that all hope is lost and you switch to damage farming mode? I feel like I get too aggressive when I should have started kiting and farming.

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When you lose 2-3 ships, especially if they were your only DDs or BBs and the reds haven't lost a single one. The game is usually lost at that point.

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When we lose map control. Once they have a couple BBs covering the main area with enough support that our DDs can't take them, it's over except in rare circumstances. And while I never give up, if I see the enemy has the upper hand I usually try something a bit riskier to see if I can force something to happen. Often it does cause serious confusion, but rarely does the team follow up.

 

Fun fact, you can predict the outcome of most games 3-4 minutes in just by looking at team positioning. Your team might look good on paper, but those 5 guys are behind an island and unable to support, leaving the other flank exposed to the red push up the middle, which is safe because half of our team is behind an island. Positioning is what wins games.

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7 minutes ago, Tekina_ said:

When you lose 2-3 ships, especially if they were your only DDs or BBs and the reds haven't lost a single one. The game is usually lost at that point.

In the beginning it's when the DD all go straight to the flanks with no support. In the middle it's when you are 300 points down, have no caps and nobody sets up for any caps for at least another 5 minutes. At any point of the match when all your BB are still sailing sideways 15km in back. At any point of match when your cruisers are all "kiting" while steaming full speed directly away from caps.

Somebody said it earlier, map control is key.

Edited by thebigblue

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14 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

In the beginning it's when the DD all go straight to the flanks with no support. In the middle it's when you are 300 points down, have no caps and nobody sets up for any caps for at least another 5 minutes. At any point of the match when all your BB are still sailing sideways 15km in back. At any point of match when your cruisers are all "kiting" while steaming full speed directly away from caps.

Somebody said it earlier, map control is key.

Yeah I can agree with that. That's what usually leads to being several ships down. I just hold out hope we can somehow turn it around before then even if the writing is on the wall before that point.

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Too many campers, too many cruisers going backwards, too many cap-allergic players in general.

The team with the balls and initiative always wins.

Campers and hiders always lose.

I can see what is on my side within 60 seconds.

Pretty much given up on trying to win, game is not fun and the general player base is flat-out nasty.

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29 minutes ago, gamer_60 said:

Just lost 3 games in a row in the donskoi. While GIT GUD obviously applies, it got me thinking. At what point do you recognize that all hope is lost and you switch to damage farming mode? I feel like I get too aggressive when I should have started kiting and farming.

It ain't over 'til its over. Don't give up too soon.

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Nope..It's over when it's over and that can be before ever losing a ship the way most players are CAP-ALLERGIC these days.

Heck, most players wont even DEFEND a cap let alone take one.

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When you have all long range kiting cruisers who do not move forward at the beginning of the match, is usually a very bad sign. Many players do not understand that sniping at max range may be safer, but it seriously reduces the effective damage you can deal.

Farmed HE damage is a bit of a trick, because it can be 100% healed. Furthermore, long range HE spammers target BBs, because that is all they can hit at long range, and BBs have numerous heal charges available. Therefore, even though long range HE spammers may harvest a lot of damage, they actually do very little lasting harm to the enemy.

By contrast, consider a radar cruiser that gets in close to caps, and targets enemy DDs. Even though this player might do only 20k damage, his spotting with radar and the extra pressure on DDs may result in the enemy losing their DDs, and losing caps, and map control. Therefore, BBs may advance safely, pushing into caps and forcing the HE spammers to the edges of the map, where they will continue to harvest fire damage that can be repaired.

Cruisers face a stark choice of play style. They can advance and target enemy DDs, for the teams strategic advantage, or they can kite, and stay safe. The former is a highly dangerous occupation, bringing the player into range of enemy fire early. The latter is preferable for the gun shy.

When two groups of snipers engage, it is difficult to perceive how powerful cap control and DD supremacy can be. When you see an aggressive team push forward with focused intent, they will ROFL stomp a timid enemy. There is no substitute for having many guns, and radar, focused on enemy scouts in the early game.

Who dares, wins.

Edited by SidTheBlade

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The first five seconds when, as a DD you ask for support, and the BB's replies it is not their job to shoot at the DD.

I am like, fine, I will farm now and leave the caps, leave the BB to the mercy of the red DD, and go elsewhere on the map.

 

Or when in a CV, the BB and CA's are behind my position, this is when I start getting some practice runs in on my team.

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1 hour ago, Tekina_ said:

When you lose 2-3 ships, especially if they were your only DDs or BBs and the reds haven't lost a single one. The game is usually lost at that point.

Probably the worst advice I've ever seen.

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When you take out all 3 of the Othinik DD in a DIV, and you STILL manage to lose the game...

Mainly BBs who cant sink cruisers and they score 9 kills against us...

That is when you know... BREAK Time!

Edited by Navalpride33

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

When we lose map control. Once they have a couple BBs covering the main area with enough support that our DDs can't take them, it's over except in rare circumstances. And while I never give up, if I see the enemy has the upper hand I usually try something a bit riskier to see if I can force something to happen. Often it does cause serious confusion, but rarely does the team follow up.

 

Fun fact, you can predict the outcome of most games 3-4 minutes in just by looking at team positioning. Your team might look good on paper, but those 5 guys are behind an island and unable to support, leaving the other flank exposed to the red push up the middle, which is safe because half of our team is behind an island. Positioning is what wins games.

Came here to say pretty much this. 

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1 hour ago, gamer_60 said:

At what point do you recognize that all hope is lost and you switch to damage farming mode?

"Never give-up, never surrender" Jason Nesmith 1999

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1 hour ago, SidTheBlade said:

When you have all long range kiting cruisers who do not move forward at the beginning of the match, is usually a very bad sign. Many players do not understand that sniping at max range may be safer, but it seriously reduces the effective damage you can deal.

Farmed HE damage is a bit of a trick, because it can be 100% healed. Furthermore, long range HE spammers target BBs, because that is all they can hit at long range, and BBs have numerous heal charges available. Therefore, even though long range HE spammers may harvest a lot of damage, they actually do very little lasting harm to the enemy.

By contrast, consider a radar cruiser that gets in close to caps, and targets enemy DDs. Even though this player might do only 20k damage, his spotting with radar and the extra pressure on DDs may result in the enemy losing their DDs, and losing caps, and map control. Therefore, BBs may advance safely, pushing into caps and forcing the HE spammers to the edges of the map, where they will continue to harvest fire damage that can be repaired.

Cruisers face a stark choice of play style. They can advance and target enemy DDs, for the teams strategic advantage, or they can kite, and stay safe. The former is a highly dangerous occupation, bringing the player into range of enemy fire early. The latter is preferable for the gun shy.

When two groups of snipers engage, it is difficult to perceive how powerful cap control and DD supremacy can be. When you see an aggressive team push forward with focused intent, they will ROFL stomp a timid enemy. There is no substitute for having many guns, and radar, focused on enemy scouts in the early game.

Who dares, wins.

I agree

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practice enough and one day you will ascend to purple levels and master being able to farm damage and win games.

i say purple loosely because 99% of purple players are actually quite bad

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Good question OP. But that is a conundrum isn't it?

The only problem with that is that one hopes that the philosophy of going farm mode does not bleed in to the real world.

Because once you make the decision to farm z it is basically saying you gave up.

Over time, that eats away at you as a mindset, because you yourself are asking when is a good time to concede defeat. But you wouldn't want to just give up because if it didn't bother you, then you would not be asking here.

It sounds to me that you are grappling with this moral conundrum. And you want people to tell you it's okay to quit.

But in my opinion, it is more important to me to leave it all out there and fight to the bitter end. It brings respect to you, your opponents, and your team.

It makes the match more memorable because we often remember our struggles z our triumphs and our defeats.

But at the end of the game, you did your best despite the odds.

That is a character trait befitting a captain. And any crew or group of people will stand behind such a person for never giving up.

We all lose games, and we take it hard. Because it goes against our own upbringing to fail. We all want to succeed.

But you will never know how great it is your triumph unless you had a fair share of failures. It's how we grow. How we change over time in game and life.

With all due respect

<O

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3 hours ago, gamer_60 said:

Just lost 3 games in a row in the donskoi. While GIT GUD obviously applies, it got me thinking. At what point do you recognize that all hope is lost and you switch to damage farming mode? I feel like I get too aggressive when I should have started kiting and farming.

I never switch, I fight tooth and nail and i have pulled many 'losses' back into wins. 

However that is not every potential loss. Sometimes you just cannot pull it back. 

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16 hours ago, gamer_60 said:

Just lost 3 games in a row in the donskoi. While GIT GUD obviously applies, it got me thinking. At what point do you recognize that all hope is lost and you switch to damage farming mode? I feel like I get too aggressive when I should have started kiting and farming.

I just got through my Donkey grind.

I actually came at it from the other way, as in, trying to recognise when we were likely going to win, and then switching from kiting/farming to aggressive mode.

If I end up keeping Donskoi, and/or whatever its successor turns out to be, I'll put more effort into learning the right playstyle.

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When we're down on caps, ships, and points, and Azuma is all like, "It seems the battle isn't going well, but I believe in you commander!"

Sorry girl, we're probably not pulling this one out. Still, I don't have a farming mode. I play to win no matter how grim. My score doesn't matter to me; the match outcome does.

Edited by Enpra

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Never in random battles.... Much Much quicker in ranked...  

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The ONLY time I KNOW I'm about to get a loss is after a long hard fight..  while i'm about to cap the red base the rest of MY team drives STRAIGHT THROUGH OUR base as it is being capped to chase the red CV!!

 He beat my cap by seconds......200k loss and no one would listen. Too busy farming.

This happened just yesterday.

Otherwise fight until YOU die. You never know.

Edited by Col_Nasty

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