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Drinker_of_Tears

Survivability Expert post (on a dare)

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See below picture.   Please tell me what you think about this skill?

shot-20.02.25_13.15.06-0341.jpg

Edited by Drinker_of_Tears

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SE is waste of points on all BBs, very useful on most DDs, and situationally useful on some cruisers. If people take SE on a BB, they just don't understand math.

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I would never put it on a BB.  A single BB shell hit totally negates any gains.

A DD definitely benefits, because most close combat fights with other DDs result in much less damage per volley.  So, the health can allow you to take an extra volley(s) and still live.

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Some players just want to be like Kurfurst or Kremlin and have over 100k HP just to be in the cool kids table.

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8 minutes ago, axyarthur said:

SE is waste of points on all BBs

It's not a waste of points, it's just a very inefficient use of them. Sorry for being pedantic :)

And a fun fact, that some people may not know: SE adds points to the overall ship health pool, and not to a specific part of the ship. So, if a part of your ship got saturated (e.g. superstructure with SAP, or bow/stern with torpedoes), SE health boost will provide you with a larger margin of safety than you'd have otherwise.

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Short Answer: You're right, he's a moron.

 

Longer Answer: 3500 HP at T10 is 3-4% extra HP depending on the BB. Or an extra full pen from a BB. Additionally, fires tick for 3% more with the extra HP. So you're probably losing a part of that in the fire damage. And you either have to give up SI, which costs you WAY more HP in the heal you lose, or BoS in which case the reduced burn time easily saves you that extra HP. And if you give up Vigilance, well one torp hit easily wipes out the extra HP. So it's actually a detriment to your survivability because you are not taking a skill that boosts in more than SE. Taking SE just shows you don't understand how game mechanics works. As you said, there's a reason it's a meme. I know of no good players who run it.

On a DD it's around 17% more HP, which is significant, especially if you don't have a heal. And since BoS isn't necessary due to not supposed to be tanking and short burn time already, you're not losing anything by taking it. So it's an excellent skill for DDs, arguably should be the first T3 skills.

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1 minute ago, Vader_Sama said:

Some players just want to be like Kurfurst or Kremlin and have over 100k HP just to be in the cool kids table.

Krem and GK have over 100 base. I believe it is Monty/Ohio and Yammy/Musashi that can be pushed over 100 with SE. 

 

Yes, it's a very poor use of points... though I wont lie I have been wondering about boosted SE+consumable duration upgrade on my Bourgogne for a "super" heal. Plus in arms race ranked where I would be regen-ing faster, I am wondering if all that's gonna add up to its 3 points worth. Still, if I do I will be going into it with meme intentions. It never belongs in a standard build.

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17 minutes ago, Drinker_of_Tears said:

See below picture.   Please tell me what you think about this skill?

shot-20.02.25_13.15.06-0341.jpg

You are in the wrong. 

You should let players play how they want to, and how to build their ships how they want to - not how you want them to. 

You did the community a service by letting him know that it’s less effective than other choices on a BB. But you crossed the line when you started insulting him. 

 

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5 minutes ago, _BBaby said:

Krem and GK have over 100 base. I believe it is Monty/Ohio and Yammy/Musashi that can be pushed over 100 with SE. 

 

Hence why the US and IJN BBs are jealous.

 

5 minutes ago, _BBaby said:

 Yes, it's a very poor use of points... though I wont lie I have been wondering about boosted SE+consumable duration upgrade on my Bourgogne for a "super" heal. Plus in arms race ranked where I would be regen-ing faster, I am wondering if all that's gonna add up to its 3 points worth. Still, if I do I will be going into it with meme intentions. It never belongs in a standard build.

 

For example, Conqueror would only get an additional 1400 more healing out of the 3500 extra HP which just only covers a normal pen from a 460mm shell really.

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6 minutes ago, Drinker_of_Tears said:

See below picture.   Please tell me what you think about this skill?

shot-20.02.25_13.15.06-0341.jpg

BoS lowers flood and fire time by -15%, so 51s of fire instead of 60s. It stacks with the -15% of DCSM2 in slot 4. So you only burn for 43s instead of 51s by only using DCSM2 and take 13% of your health instead of 15.3% due to a unchecked fire. So on a BB with 50k health, that is 1,150 HP less per fire on a 100k BB it is 2,300 HP. So 3 unchecked fires over a match on a T6-ish BB saves you 3,450 HP by using BoS, not to mention the HP you save from fires you end early with DCP and any floods. One a T10 BB two unchecked fires saves 4,600 HP with BoS and DCSM2 in slot 4, which is 1,100 HP more than SE gives you.

 

SI gives you another heal charge, fighter/spotter, or other consumable.

 

CE lowers your detect for the early part of the battle.

 

FP reduces the fire chance, but that is negligible and  the real benefit is combing the two most hit fore and aft superstructure sections into one superstructure section.

 

As others have mentioned you can use VI to get more notice of torps. DE for more fire chance on secondaries. MFCSA for better secondaries on one target. AR for faster guns, EM for faster turrets, HA for less DCP cooldown time, JoaT for less cooldown time on ALL consumbles, etc, etc, etc.

 

You can fit in SE to get the extra 3,500 HP on your BB and it may save your bacon when you get low. It is just that other skills BBs can use are generally more useful.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

You are in the wrong. 

You should let players play how they want to, and how to build their ships how they want to - not how you want them to. 

You did the community a service by letting him know that it’s less effective than other choices on a BB. But you crossed the line when you started insulting him. 

 

I did a bit.  There is some history there.  Duly noted.

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image.thumb.png.1d13a0b2a1b038e28511d637ff325e76.png

A normal Yamato, for example, burns for 12,326 per fire with SE

image.thumb.png.48aaba387c1bd9743c6b77ae1e259f41.png

And 10,113 per fire with BoS

In other words, if a Yamato lets 2 or more fires burn its duration in a single match, BoS is the superior choice over SE.

SE wouldnt be a bad skill to take on BBs if BoS didnt exist. 

But since it does, SE on BBs is still a meme.

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It is a rather stupid skill to pick for a BB. However we have all been granted the gift of being stupid if we want to. I myself try to be smart most of the time, there are times it pays to be stupid but picking your BB commander skills is generally not that time.

Will the skill help. Yes

Are there better skills? Yes

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11 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

Hence why the US and IJN BBs are jealous.

:Smile_facepalm: I cant read

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Taking SE on a Battleship into Randoms is a good way to get laughed at.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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39 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

SE makes you take more DOT damage. Enough said.

Very helpful on the enemy team when you’re trying to farm fire damage though 

37 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Taking SE on a Battleship into Randoms is a good way to get laughed at.

At least one or two SE BBs in randoms is better (barely) than two SE Montanas and an improved SE Montana on your team in a single ranked battle

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2 hours ago, axyarthur said:

SE is waste of points on all BBs, very useful on most DDs, and situationally useful on some cruisers. If people take SE on a BB, they just don't understand math.

Which cruisers?

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19 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

Which cruisers?

I use it on my Zao, as it has low base health so benefits the most from skill. I imagine ships like Colbert and Smolensk can benefit as well. I don't have them so I don't know if people actually use it on those ships, maybe not because most people would take IFHE and there aren't enough points after that.

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Waiting for the free redistribution of captain skills to happen due to the IFHE rework so that I can change a few of my newb Texas settings (Se being one of them I think) way back from when I was still learning the game. :fish_palm:

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