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Jef_Roberts

New European ships

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How about some decent new European ships. The "Pan Asian" trees are made up of ex-European warships. How about something more interesting? Dutch De Ruyter or Tromp. Spanish Canarias and Baleares. Greek, Turkish or Scandinavian ships. 

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Something besides high level Premiums like Blyskawica or Freisland. Some cruisers would be nice. Or some battleships.

 

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I'm ALL for seeing those Swedish destroyers in the game. They are interesting and unique ships. What is the source for the tier 6? Paper project?  I don't know that project at all.  So why not include one of the excellent Dutch destroyers there - Witte De With would fit nicely.  And for a lower tier, and in keeping with the Scandinavian theme, how about the Norwegian Sleipner class?  Great, compact ships with a nice punch and interesting histories.  The Gryf is an interesting ships. But for a Tier 1 European cruiser, the Dutch Van Kinsbergen is an excellent choice. Solid, well armed ship that compares very favorably with the other Tier 1s in the game.

 

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2 minutes ago, Jef_Roberts said:

So why not include one of the excellent Dutch destroyers there - Witte De With would fit nicely.

Agreed.

However, they want an overall identity in their pan ikea destroyer line, and I don't want Dutch destroyers with such terrible gimmicks as the pan ikea ones anyways.

And, trust me, there were few people more upset when the pan Ikea destroyer line was announced than I was.

But, this introduction of a pan Ikea destroyer line just opens up the road for a Dutch centered cruiser line down the road.

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29 minutes ago, Lert said:

Agreed.

However, they want an overall identity in their pan ikea destroyer line, and I don't want Dutch destroyers with such terrible gimmicks as the pan ikea ones anyways.

And, trust me, there were few people more upset when the pan Ikea destroyer line was announced than I was.

But, this introduction of a pan Ikea destroyer line just opens up the road for a Dutch centered cruiser line down the road.

My concern with the Pan IKEA line is that they, like their furniture counterparts, might just fall apart while sailing, because someone left a nut off a bolt somewhere.

 

That and the extra screws and stuff rattling around letting subs know exactly where they are.

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51 minutes ago, Lert said:

Agreed.

However, they want an overall identity in their pan ikea destroyer line, and I don't want Dutch destroyers with such terrible gimmicks as the pan ikea ones anyways.

And, trust me, there were few people more upset when the pan Ikea destroyer line was announced than I was.

But, this introduction of a pan Ikea destroyer line just opens up the road for a Dutch centered cruiser line down the road.

And as I've said before, I wouldn't write off the possibility of a second pan European DD line.  The pan European "nation" isn't like a normal major navy.  It's a collection of smaller nations, all of whom could afford to build DDs and some who could afford to build the occasional cruiser.  So, where with a major navy, you might expect a BB, a CR, and a DD line for three tech tree lines, I could easily see where a 3 line Pan Euro tree might be more likely to consist of a couple of DD lines and a cruiser line.

BTW, I like the "pan ikea" quip.  So apropos.

Edited by Crucis

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

Agreed.

However, they want an overall identity in their pan ikea destroyer line, and I don't want Dutch destroyers with such terrible gimmicks as the pan ikea ones anyways.

And, trust me, there were few people more upset when the pan Ikea destroyer line was announced than I was.

But, this introduction of a pan Ikea destroyer line just opens up the road for a Dutch centered cruiser line down the road.

I am betting when it's said and done that the European lines will have three separate destroyer branches and 2 cruiser branches. For destroyers I'm betting they will be Swedish, Dutch, and Spanish. Same for the cruisers minus the Swedes.

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

And as I've said before, I wouldn't write off the possibility of a second pan European DD line.

 

24 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

I am betting when it's said and done that the European lines will have three separate destroyer branches and 2 cruiser branches. For destroyers I'm betting they will be Swedish, Dutch, and Spanish. Same for the cruisers minus the Swedes.

Agreed on both accounts. Though I still think my displeasure was not unwarranted when the pan Ikea line was announced, I've calmed down considerably since and am very much entertaining the notion of different nation-flavored Pan European trees to come.

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2 hours ago, Jef_Roberts said:

I'm ALL for seeing those Swedish destroyers in the game.

Need to see them as a SWEDISH line so the Pan European line can represent some other parts of Europe too!

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50 minutes ago, Lert said:

 

Agreed on both accounts. Though I still think my displeasure was not unwarranted when the pan Ikea line was announced, I've calmed down considerably since and am very much entertaining the notion of different nation-flavored Pan European trees to come.

The flavor for Dutch destroyers will probably be exactly like Friesland: great at dealing with planes and submarines, which makes sense considering their biggest worries were German submarines and Japanese aircraft. What do you think the Spanish flavor will be?

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1 minute ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

The flavor for Dutch destroyers will probably be exactly like Friesland: great at dealing with planes and submarines, which makes sense considering their biggest worries were German submarines and Japanese aircraft. What do you think the Spanish flavor will be?

The flavor of the Dutch DDs will be gunbotes for sure, probably with very potent AA at high tiers. I honestly have no idea what Spanish DDs would be like.

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4 hours ago, Umikami said:

Need to see them as a SWEDISH line so the Pan European line can represent some other parts of Europe too!

Not true.  You need to understand that it's entirely possible, if not likely, that there will be multiple DD lines in the Pan Euro tree.  There will be one that's Swedish.  Perhaps one that's Dutch.  And perhaps a third one that's multinational.  And this doesn't account for any cruiser line or lines.

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16 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Not true.  You need to understand that it's entirely possible, if not likely, that there will be multiple DD lines in the Pan Euro tree.  There will be one that's Swedish.  Perhaps one that's Dutch.  And perhaps a third one that's multinational.  And this doesn't account for any cruiser line or lines.

Really? Because it seems it would be just as easy to find one tier 1 Swedish cruiser and make the entire line Swedish, and later not have to worry about splitting lines. They could even use their own flag, have specific captains, etc.

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If they're saving the Dutch ships, but tossing the Polish minelayer in at Tier 1 of this Pan European DD line, WHY not use the Polish destroyer Grom at Tier 7 instead of the paper Swedish ship?  Her equally real sister Blyskawica is already a Pan European tier 7 premium...

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On 2/25/2020 at 10:12 PM, Crucis said:

Not true.  You need to understand that it's entirely possible, if not likely, that there will be multiple DD lines in the Pan Euro tree.  There will be one that's Swedish.  Perhaps one that's Dutch.  And perhaps a third one that's multinational.  And this doesn't account for any cruiser line or lines.

Very much this. In all likelihood, Pan EU will predominately be a DD (SS too?) based tree. Yes, cruisers are possible and perhaps even 2 lines of them if gods willing, we can find enough tier 10s. And we can even get some BBs in the mix too though realistically they probably would only eek up to about tier 7. As for the DDs themselves, I also foresee 3 lines. Before the Ikea line was announced, I had predicated my theoretical tech tree on similar families of ships. But, if WeeGee sees fit to try and homogenize the lines as much as possible with same nation ships, then so be it! Now this doesn't mean the the rest of the 3rd and 4th rate Navies represented can have full or near-full lines like Sweden, far from it. But we can lump them together Pan-Asian style based on general design and theoretical playstyle. 

For instance; going strictly off of the known nations represented in the current Pan EU line, we can very nearly create a new line of ships that would incorporate both the Dutch and Polish ships together (Austria-Hungary has kind of expended it's DD resources unless they want to have serious looks at the 1917-8 paper proposals for ocean going destroyers to follow up Tatra, but I digress.) But this is far from perfect and can still easily lead to some weird gaps and overlap in the line. This is where Spain will have to come in. (And hopefully soon!) They offer a variety of British-esque DDs that should be quite complimentary to both the Dutch and even the Polish Grom/ Huragan classes should they be needed. This would be the 2nd line, and the 3rd line would likely constitute ships from even smaller navies that likely would have more Italian/French (American?) Influences possibly. Now this could still overlap for a nation like Spain, but it could also provide outlets for countries like Yugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, Romania, hell even Poland again with its Wicher-class based on the Bourrasque-class from France. 

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8 hours ago, Jef_Roberts said:

If they're saving the Dutch ships, but tossing the Polish minelayer in at Tier 1 of this Pan European DD line, WHY not use the Polish destroyer Grom at Tier 7 instead of the paper Swedish ship?  Her equally real sister Blyskawica is already a Pan European tier 7 premium...

Because the T1 doesn't really matter (Although the Swedish Clas Fleming would have worked as a T1, and Magne/Wrangel could have worked at T2, but I digress), and they wanted the main ships of the line to be Swedish.

We'll probably see Grom in a later Pan EU DD line.

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I honestly would kind have preferred to see each minor navy get its own tech tree line under the Pan-European 'nation.' For those nations that don't really have huge numbers of ships, there really wouldn't have been an issue in skipping tiers. We already do that with CVs. 

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On 2/25/2020 at 4:47 PM, Jef_Roberts said:

How about some decent new European ships. The "Pan Asian" trees are made up of ex-European warships. How about something more interesting? Dutch De Ruyter or Tromp. Spanish Canarias and Baleares. Greek, Turkish or Scandinavian ships. 

And Romania!
I would like to see the Mihail Viteazul pocket battleship in the game. Liker a paneuropa Graf Spee :cap_viking:

UP102.jpg

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