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IJN_Pepega

Destroyer survival guide on how to survive in a match with aircraft carrier

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Greetings, fellow captain! As we have already known, aircraft carrier (CV) could easily destroy or at least heavily damage destroyer (DD) both in the old RTS gameplay and the new reworked action gameplay. DD players often complain that they cannot survive if there are CV in the match because of constant harassment and frequent spotting of which the latter leads to them being focused by multiple enemy ships. Therefore, I would like to share some tips for DD on how to survive in a match with CV.

First of all, do not rush alone into capture area since the beginning of the match! In a match with CV, capping is always a side objective. As a DD, you will be spawned in front of the other ship types unless if there are submarines (SS) in the match too. As a frontliner, throw away your intention of capping too early. Do not move from your spawn point until at least an allied cruiser is within 2 km from you. Ask a cruiser or battleship with decent AA to sail with you. At the beginning, turn your AA off by pressing the default P button in order to avoid early detection by a hostile squadron. If a group of ships are air-detected, the enemy CV will always aim to attack those detected ships first. You might be eventually detected by those planes but that may be after they have dropped their ordinance on other bigger ships. Turn your AA on when you are detected by hostile planes but pay attention to the distance between your DD and those planes. When they are outside of your air detectability range, immediately turn your AA off again.

If you are a confident enough that you can survive from CV harassment while capping alone, then feel free to ditch the option above. This tactic is only valid if you have smoke. If you are using a DD that does not have smoke such as the tech tree French and Pan-Euro DDs, use the first tactic explained in the second paragraph. At the beginning of the match, turn your AA off. Without using a speed boost, straight away go to the capture zone. This tactic still needs an allied ship to support you from behind. Just hope that you will not be detected and attacked by enemy CV on your way into the capture zone. If you see a plane squadron incoming towards you before you reach the cap zone, you have two options. The first option is to use your speed boost to go back to the nearest allied ship for AA support. The second alternative is to slow down to ¼ speed and then pop your smoke. By doing this, CV will not be able to detect you because you have been hiding yourself in the smoke first.

If you are lucky enough that you are able to safely arrive at your desired capture zone because the enemy CV is spotting other area, then stay in the capture zone unless if there are another hindrances such as the presence of one or multiple enemy radar ships nearby. Always keep your AA turned off during this time. An empty zone being capped attracts attention from enemies especially the CV. If enemy rocket attackers (RA) come towards you, just keep turning off your AA until you are plane-detected. When you are detected by planes, pop your smoke and hide inside it. It is a common practice by enemy CV to summon fighters on top of your smoke thus you must turn your AA on to shoot those fighters down. Even if you have crap AA with range of 2.5 km or less, they will be taken down eventually. Your AA tracer will not give your exact location away because from CV’s perspective, they are seen to be spawned randomly from the smoke. Let’s do some math and take Kagero hull B against Kaga’s fighters with SE commander skill for example.

888426423_Figure1Calculationoftimetakentotakedownfighters.png.a6bc9206f09a1a1b370b263ce8f66af5.png

As a Kagero hiding in 89 seconds smoke, you would take approximately 44.3 seconds to shoot all those Kaga’s fighter planes down. This is a very long time because you do not have long range AA guns thus you cannot produce AA flak clouds to shoot those planes faster. Therefore, kindly ask your friendly CV to summon fighters for you by pressing F6 button or using the command wheel. When two opposing fighters coverage overlap, they will tag each other thus despawning the hostile fighters. Please be considerate towards your team CV because an attack squadron can only spawn one patrol fighter squadron once every 70 seconds. If your team CV has used patrol fighters summoned by RA at another area for example, then s/he needs to wait for 10 seconds after the previous patrol fighters have expended their 60 seconds duration or use TB/DB to fly towards you for faster usage of another set of patrol fighters. Alternatively, ask an allied ship to come towards you so that their AA will take down those hostile summon fighters faster.

While hiding in smoke to avoid detection by enemy planes, do not fire your main guns when a hostile squadron is within 5 km from your DD unless if an enemy ship is rushing towards you. Doing so will reveal your position in the smoke thus enemy CV can easily blind-attack you using rockets or bombs. It is however okay to fire your torpedoes though because after update 0.8.0, planes can no longer spot them. When you are in the smoke, you need allied ship or plane to spot enemy planes for you. Your AA gun will not operate if there is no enemy plane being spotted within your AA range. Pay attention to the type of plane used by enemy CV to hunt you. If they are using torpedo bombers (TB), be prepared to move or make any proper maneuver. A good CV player will randomly drop torpedoes into the smoke from various entry points. It might be easy to avoid two torpedoes per attack such as tech tree IJN CVs’. CVs that can drop multiple torpedoes per run are your main problem such as Saipan, Kaga and Midway. If they do drop torpedoes from multiple directions into your smoke, please make any necessary movement to avoid being torped.

What if you are a DD that does not have smoke or your smokes have ran out and there is no allied ships nearby for AA support? Well, you will be attacked by enemy CV for sure but there are a few ways to mitigate the damage taken. If the enemy CV is using rocket attackers, maneuver your ship as much as you can while turning your AA off so that they have difficulty aiming you. Against Enterprise and all tech tree USN CV using HVAR rockets, do not show your broadside! Always bow in to the incoming rockets or move away from them. If the enemy CV uses dive bombers, always play with your rudder and use speed boost. Do not move in straight line! By moving in a straight line, enemy CV will easily line up their aim parallel to your ship and can easily dev strike you especially Midway and Lexington with 6 deadly HE bombs per attack. If you actively maneuver your DD, you might catch only one bomb or none but only your rudder may be knocked out.

After CV rework, CV torpedoes are designed in a way that ships with good or decent maneuverability will be able to dodge them. If enemy CV tries to attack you using torpedo bombers, turn away from them without decelerating. If the aerial torpedoes speed is 50 - 57.75 knots, slow down so that they will swim past you then continue to speed up so that you will not be hit during the cross-torp attempt by enemy CV. For slow aerial torpedoes of 35 – 42 knots, you should accelerate while actively turning to the port or starboard because slow aerial torpedoes typically have short running distance especially those of UK CV. If you are using a DD with more than 700 m turning radius, base maximum speed of slower than 36 knots and/or more than 4 seconds of rudder shift time, turning into incoming aerial torpedoes is really not the best option. Due to large turning circle radius and long rudder shift, you will decelerate more when you turn at the fastest speed possible thus making you an easy target for fast aerial torpedoes. Therefore, use your speed boost and turn away from them.

If you are using a DD with long range AA guns and having three layers of AA auras or raw continuous AA damage exceeding 200, it might be worth to go full AA spec especially if she does not have smoke screen. Typically, gunboat DDs have good AA that they might wreak havoc on enemy planes when they are fully AA-specced. Defensive Fire Anti-Aircraft (DFAA) consumable strengthens your AA defense even more when you are able to equip it. Let us take USSR Grozovoi for example. She has three AA auras overlapping each other with the default AA stats as shown in the following figure.

242612487_Figure2GrozobaseAA.png.084cdcc5d9700b6286014e1d3d3de7fd.png

Now let us do some math to estimate her effective AA damage.

669782679_Figure3GrozobaseAAcalculation.png.455d7df04c2494023da904532b656e7c.png

Approximately, Grozovoi with all her AA ranges overlapping each other would have 211.3 average continuous AA damage. For full AA spec, one must have the following build on her and any DD that they want to have full AA spec on.

443557386_Figure4HowtofullyAAspec.png.c78dddcd3484ed33d5353a0c4b0f35a5.png

 

With the build suggested above, a fully AA-specced Grozovoi will have the following AA values.

2076614741_Figure5GrozofullyAAspec.png.65e12f7f6c8f00eea1d0daa955398f34.png

Raw continuous AA damage = 350.745 continuous AA dps

Grozovoi’s AA is significantly increased when she is fully AA-specced. However, be mindful that she also has DFAA that increases the continuous AA dps by 1.5 times and AA flak explosion damage by 4 times. With Auxiliary Armament Modification 2, 2 more additional AA flak clouds will be produced when DFAA is being used. With the build shown above, she can spawn up to 3 flak clouds that can deal up to 2333 AA damage per cloud and 5 flak clouds with 9332 AA damage per cloud during DFAA usage. Any planes that fail to dodge all her AA flaks will instantly be taken down without a chance to drop their payloads at all. With the usage of premium DFAA and Superintendent skill, Grozovoi has 5 of them with 40 seconds per usage and 80 seconds of cooldown between usages. For a faster DFAA reload, press P to turn the AA off then press it again to enable the reload to start earlier. It is also worth noting that during DFAA usage, her continuous AA damage is increased to approximately 420.9 dps.

The AA build shown above is doable to any DD having long range AA guns. It is viable for high tiers American DD, Japanese gunboat DD and Grozovoi branch of Russian DD starting from Udaloi hull B. It is highly recommended for DD that has DFAA in a separate slots. Some example are Friesland, European DD starting from Ӧland (stats not final) and Marceau (stats not final). Most of these ships do not have smoke but they are compensated with DFAA for self-defense. For ships having smoke such as American DD, you need to smoke up first when you see incoming planes 6 km from you then use your DFAA and priority AA sector accordingly to increase the instantaneous AA damage. Also, please do not take Auxiliary Armament Modification 1 because AA mounts are more difficult to be destroyed after CV rework. For US DD starting from Farragut to Benson, it is not worth using the final researchable hull just to be able to equip DFAA because you will lose one gun turret that may reduce your surface combat capability.

As a DD player, you must never get within CV’s secondary guns range especially Kaga’s & Graf Zeppelin’s. Graf Zeppelin has a total of 28 secondary guns with minimum base reload of 3.35 seconds and minimum range of 6.25 km. Even without Inertia Fuse High Explosive skill (IFHE), her 8 turrets of dual 150 mm secondary guns can penetrate up to 37 mm armor. It means that they have no problem damaging DD at all. A properly secondary-built Graf Zeppelin with IFHE skill, Advanced Firing Training (AFT) skill, Mike Yankee Soxisix signal and Secondary Battery Modification 1 upgrade has roughly 9.45 km secondary firing range with 49 mm armor penetration capability and 3.18 seconds reload.

Any unfortunate DD that gets caught within Graf Zeppelin’s secondaries range will melt in less than a minute! If you accidentally get within her secondary range, quickly get away from it. If your escape route is blocked by island, smoke up and hope that enemy Graf Zeppelin is dumb enough to rush up to you. You have an assured detectability range of 2 km inside a smoke. Do not worry about being hydroed by Graf Zep because after the CV rework, she no longer has Hydroacoustic Search due to being too overpowered in the past. Wait until the final moment then torp her at point blank range to ensure maximum devastating strike! Simultaneously, ask the help of a nearby teammates to shoot the rushing Graf Zep.

Even though Kaga’s secondaries are not ridiculously long-ranged like that of Graf Zep, they hit hard on DD too! As a tier 8 CV, Kaga has base 4.5 km secondary range. However, she has 26 secondary guns with 20 of them having 203 mm caliber and 3300 maximum damage per HE shell. The 33 mm armor penetration capability of her 203 mm secondary guns is deadly on DD as well. Therefore, do not ever get within her secondary range too. If you want to stealth torp any CV, do it outside of their secondary guns range unless if it is Saipan. Saipan is the only CV that is not equipped with secondary guns at all thus feel free to rush her, provided that you can survive from her tier 10 tanky planes. The graph below shows the secondary guns range of all CV grouped by tiers.

990126141_CVrawsecondarygunsfiringrange.thumb.png.80964617851f5be5a2383349f6909cdc.png

Some matches probably last too long that only CV and unspotted DDs are the only ones that survived until the last minutes. If you are a DD and your team’s CV is still alive, please stick to the CV until the end of the match! Even if you are a cruiser or a battleship, please go back to the allied CV for AA support because CV has the best AA suite ever that can effectively fend off against hostile planes. If your team is lagging behind on points, ask your allied CV to kill any remaining survivor in the enemy team. You can even ask the allied CV to go to capture points to cap with you! If you are leading in points, do not deliberately throw by sailing alone then being killed by enemy CV!

This is the end of my survival guide for DD in a match with CV. Just pick any tactic that suits your playstyle and the capability of your DD. Please be reminded that if an enemy CV player really wants you to die really bad, they will focus their attacks on you the entire match until you are dead or give up and throw. It may be fine though because enemy CV will not focus on the other teammates that might win you the match because provided that your teammates are not bots, they can focus on killing enemy ships. If you are eventually killed by enemy CV, do not rage at your teammates especially allied CV for not providing AA support. Simply carry on, exit to port and play another ship or just call it a day. Kindly share your own survival tips in the comment section below.

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Great work sir! It's kind of refreshing to see someone talk about CVs so objectively (especially when opinions on the rework are so polarizing). This will help a lot of new and old players alike with positioning and damage mitigation strategies.

Thank you for the guide, great read! :Smile_honoring:

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Good to see a meaty guide on the topic. Most just throw their arms up at the same time as throwing caution to the wind, acting like there is nothing a DD can do, and it gets frustrating how often I have to say otherwise. If you go into a match expecting to lose, it just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, as you've already given up no matter what actually does happen.

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1 hour ago, IJN_Pepega said:

Greetings, fellow captain!

:cap_like:

Lot's of good advice. New DD players would gain a lot from reading your post.

 

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There are two things I would criticize:

1 hour ago, IJN_Pepega said:

Raw continuous AA damage = 350.745 continuous AA dps

[...]

It is also worth noting that during DFAA usage, her continuous AA damage is increased to approximately 420.9 dps.

~350 DPS is about the same as Izumo base AA. ~421 DPS is about the same as Zao or Smolensk base AA. Neither of these values are particularly effective in deterring strikes. Spending this many points on AA skills purely for the sake of AA is thus a waste. Such skills and upgrades should be taken only if they actually benefit your capabilities against surface ships.

 

1 hour ago, IJN_Pepega said:

Some matches probably last too long that only CV and unspotted DDs are the only ones that survived until the last minutes. If you are a DD and your team’s CV is still alive, please stick to the CV until the end of the match! Even if you are a cruiser or a battleship, please go back to the allied CV for AA support because CV has the best AA suite ever that can effectively fend off against hostile planes. If your team is lagging behind on points, ask your allied CV to kill any remaining survivor in the enemy team. You can even ask the allied CV to go to capture points to cap with you! If you are leading in points, do not deliberately throw by sailing alone then being killed by enemy CV!

This depends very much on the skill of your CV player and their ability to position themselves well. It should be obvious but it makes no sense for your remaining teammates to all huddle next to the CV on the map border while the enemy is free to take all caps.

If you want frontline AA support, BBs are usually the best option.

 

Otherwise unless I missed something the information provided is all truthful. Nice job!

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4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

There are two things I would criticize:

~350 DPS is about the same as Izumo base AA. ~421 DPS is about the same as Zao or Smolensk base AA. Neither of these values are particularly effective in deterring strikes. Spending this many points on AA skills purely for the sake of AA is thus a waste. Such skills and upgrades should be taken only if they actually benefit your capabilities against surface ships.

 

This depends very much on the skill of your CV player and their ability to position themselves well. It should be obvious but it makes no sense for your remaining teammates to all huddle next to the CV on the map border while the enemy is free to take all caps.

If you want frontline AA support, BBs are usually the best option.

 

Otherwise unless I missed something the information provided is all truthful. Nice job!

For once you aren't criticizing OP's post by saying all his advice is useless nonsense and posting your CV videos smacking everything with zero risk, just like what you did last time.

Edited by RyuuohD_NA

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This is hilarious.  Staying in an AA blob with other ships is effectively sinking a DD.  The DD is not doing its job. 

DDs doing their job and following this guide will still get perma-spotted by a semi-competent CV driver.  In which case you're sunk by his team mates or crapped on with rockets and bombs.

The only DD survival guide is to dodge and hope the CV and his team mates don't hit you.  That's it.  Nothing else you can do.  Hiding in smoke is again, effectively a short term kill of the DD.

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Lots of good writing and great numbers.

But I survive the proper way. I don't play DDs except at T9. It's a complete waste of time to play in games with CVs.

 

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IJN_Pepega, thanks for writing this! I love that you included both specific tips on how to play (don't immediately rush to cap, stay near friendly support ships) and general explanations of how AA can be effective without losing all concealment.

In the game, I see plenty of DDs who deal quite competently with carrier planes. Carriers certainly haven't stopped me from playing and enjoying DDs.
In the forum, people often express frustration that they don't know how to play against a CV. Some just want to complain, but most really do want help.

This seems an excellent guide for those who want to learn.

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I didn't know this game has turned into a survival game for DDs. 

Also. To sit in a smoke and shoot down planes, you need friendly ship spotting the planes for you. And they need to be pretty close to you.

Actually. The best way to survive a CV match is to stay with your own CV which has the best AA of all ships plus automatic fighter summons. That way you can also offer surrender and turncoat by TKing your own CV in exchange of the mercy of the red CV. /s

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Seems all your (Guide) discusses is making a DD at best very passive and worse absolutely useless to his team.

Even in a Friesland a Airport can strike you for 3k or more and that is NOT repeate NOT a broadside strike that is turning in to him. I have had more than a few Airports continue to send guided missiles at all my dd's regardless of damage they take which is none REPEAT AGAIN  A CV TAKES NO DAMAGE.

A dd should be spotting and capping but it is near impossible with a airport that has just 1 braincell. I can defeat radar, defeat hydro or at least semi-avoid it and cause those ships using them to take damage by friendlies or even myself. An Airport with all the built in damage mitigation systems is almost in GOD MODE unless slammed with a wall of torps for a devstrike or near end of game focus fired by many.

I have never complained about Radar or Hydro except to say neither should go through Islands and that is based simply off the truth they cannot in real life and we all know this game it could be implemented as well WEGEE just doesnt want to and the other gripe is it should only be for the ship using it to see the enemy but still allow for its position to be placed on mini-map, otherwise radar/hydro are playable against.

An Airport is not, the simple truth to this is games without a CV dd's will still try to cap and spot and yes even try to sink other ships and even a typically walking dead brains damaged dd in those games by spotting helps his/her team. When you for all purposes remove a Classes intended use by another class that pays NO PRICE for playing then there is something wrong.

How to correct the problem is simple. Remove the rockets and also decrease the flight time of planes along with remove the GOD MODE of the cv of damage control. They take torps or fires they should have to suffer like a BB would... Bottom line though from ALPHA Wegee has been told they should not be in the game, THEY Were the end of surface ships warfare for a reason!

 

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30 minutes ago, Mustangrde1 said:

NO PRICE for playing then there is something wrong.

If a CL shoots at a DD and it's out of the range of that DD's guns it does it "at no price."  The same thing goes for a BB sitting at 17 km and merrily shooting at a CA that has a range of 15.8 km. If a DD stalks a BB and stays out of detection range it can torp the BB at will at "no price."

I found all this whining funny for a while but now I'm growing tired of it. Whining isn't going to make WG change anything. If you don't like the game as it is then don't play it.

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7 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

If a CL shoots at a DD and it's out of the range of that DD's guns it does it "at no price."  The same thing goes for a BB sitting at 17 km and merrily shooting at a CA that has a range of 15.8 km. If a DD stalks a BB and stays out of detection range it can torp the BB at will at "no price."

I found all this whining funny for a while but now I'm growing tired of it. Whining isn't going to make WG change anything. If you don't like the game as it is then don't play it.

Easy: skip over these threads. They will continue as long as people dislike something. I agree some are whiny which shows people approach a topic in different directions. Clearly whoever is asking for CVs to go/change likes some parts of the game enough to stay. As one example, it's like asking the players against the mercy rule to quit because they believe one mechanic is bad. One mechanic can be disliked and players will still play the game. What is their limit? Who knows as each person makes their own limit.

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5 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

For once you aren't criticizing OP's post by saying all his advice is useless nonsense and posting your CV videos smacking everything with zero risk, just like what you did last time.

I will point out misinformation where it is. If e.g. the OP had said that you should show broadside to rocket planes with vertical spread and this will effectively cut down their damage, I would have pointed out that this isn't true. But he didn't.

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36 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

If a CL shoots at a DD and it's out of the range of that DD's guns it does it "at no price."  The same thing goes for a BB sitting at 17 km and merrily shooting at a CA that has a range of 15.8 km. If a DD stalks a BB and stays out of detection range it can torp the BB at will at "no price."

I found all this whining funny for a while but now I'm growing tired of it. Whining isn't going to make WG change anything. If you don't like the game as it is then don't play it.

If you don’t like reading legit complaints then don’t read em.

Also that comparison has been debunked about 1000 times now as completely invalid. Not only is it comparing completely different things it’s willfully obtuse by ignoring the huge factor of risks , vision control , player skill etc.
 

Edited by eviltane
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Great guide, nice to see more talk on tactics. Been following much the same methodology - found you can still get in decent spotting/screening as DD positioned a little closer in to your fleet. It’s not always necessary to be 10km ahead of everyone else. Once the battle’s established and the CV has committed planes elsewhere, you can play a little bolder - had a trio of successful CV hunts in my Mutsuki last night, doing just this. It’s just a matter of patience & occasionally chipping in to deprive the CV of their two key resources: planes and TIME. I always pay attention to what the enemy CV has in the air, and what that means. 
 

Can’t say enough about the importance of chiming in with a well-timed priority sector, when a CV has committed to an attack run on a friendly. Your (heretofore unseen) cumulative fire can make the difference in downed planes & increase the time between potent outbound flights. Sure, I’ve broadcast my position to the CV - but if he sends out a flight of (lower health) rocket planes in response, I can do a lot of things to ensure he wastes valuable time trying to find me, or has to sacrifice too many for a single hit. 
 

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Excellent post +1

Pretty good guide for someone with only 11 battles....:Smile_glasses:

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On 2/25/2020 at 11:06 AM, Snargfargle said:

If a CL shoots at a DD and it's out of the range of that DD's guns it does it "at no price."  The same thing goes for a BB sitting at 17 km and merrily shooting at a CA that has a range of 15.8 km. If a DD stalks a BB and stays out of detection range it can torp the BB at will at "no price."

I found all this whining funny for a while but now I'm growing tired of it. Whining isn't going to make WG change anything. If you don't like the game as it is then don't play it.

Their is a Price for each of your scenarios.

CL shooting can be spotted and fired on by other ships, same for a BB... DD using stealth to attack still has the high risk of being spotted, hydro'ed or Radared  all of which will cost the above 3 classes a Price.

The CV HAS NO PRICE! It can sit at the back out of detection range paying no price for its actions and even if it does manage to be spotted and set onfire or flood its mitigations services make the price almost nonresistant.

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On 2/26/2020 at 3:00 AM, paradat said:

Excellent post +1

Pretty good guide for someone with only 11 battles....:Smile_glasses:

Spoiler

And more than 5k+ battles on EU & CIS

 

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11 hours ago, IJN_Pepega said:
  Hide contents

And more than 5k+ battles on EU & CIS

 

Yeah I figured as much.

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On 2/25/2020 at 8:56 AM, SeaborneSumo said:

This is hilarious.  Staying in an AA blob with other ships is effectively sinking a DD.  The DD is not doing its job. 

 I had pretty good success last night capping in a Minsk of all things. (was often forced to cap due to low DD pop in about half my matches)

The key was persistance. Get in cap, here come the planes. Run back towards friendly ships. Planes get shredded. Go back in cap, rinse and repeat. Next planes go elsewhere. Take cap, run out and spot. I did get hit the odd time, but nothing outrageous.

Now, I'm sure a big part of that was the enemy CV player. But, I never did run across any particularly good and/or determined CV players. I mean, I'll spend the entire match hunting DDs in a T8 CV, and settle for 25k damage, if it helps us win, but how many other CV players are willing to lose credits by doing that?

Maybe the good players are all playing T10 CVs?

 

Edited by Skpstr

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My personal advice is:

'If you can think of anything fun, dynamic or objective oriented and there's a carrier, absolutely don't do any of those things'.

 

Edit: Also your advice on turning off AA should be caveated to turning it off only if the range is longer than your surface detection. For instance if you have 2.5km air spotting but 2.5km AA range there is absolutely no point in turning off your AA.

Edited by mofton

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3 hours ago, mofton said:

Edit: Also your advice on turning off AA should be caveated to turning it off only if the range is longer than your surface detection. For instance if you have 2.5km air spotting but 2.5km AA range there is absolutely no point in turning off your AA.

A couple things there:

Be careful with leaving it on in smoke. Your AA tracers give a CV a constant positional update, unlike main guns which only fire every 4-5 seconds or so. As a mediocre CV player, I can absolutely hit you with TBs using that guide, maybe even with rockets, although I won't likely hit you too hard, and DBs are even harder to use that way.

If you have flak, don't be afraid to use it, if you don't mind the enemy knowing where you are, (often the enemy knows you're there somewhere anyway) the CV's actual target is nearby, and they're not rocket planes. I've blunted a number of attacks by taking out 1-3 planes with Akatsuki flak before they dropped, when they thought that they had gotten close enough to the target that they were safe from flak. (and gone dark immediately afterwards)

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