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Jason864

Wichita Issues

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Hey anyone else use Wichita now adays?

I have her built as an AA build for the lols including massive aa fire and AA mods and I click priority sector and its automatically yellow and on cooldown and doesn't seem to do anything. Is something going on here?

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Massive AA gives you a larger boost to the burst damage when activating a priority sector in favor of the build up and increased damage over time. It’s only worth taking on ships with very low AA, all of which have builds that are more optimized and don’t have the points for massive AA. Since the rework and especially since the last round of AA changes at the end of summer last year make AA builds pretty much worthless, and the only parts potentially worth getting for AA are BFT and the slot 3 AA mod that increases flak bursts (depending on how many your ship produces since there’s a limit to how many will spawn in front of the planes instead of to the side - 8 max in front with any more spawned to the left or right).

For Wichita itself, it wasn’t as popular a ship compared to Baltimore from what I remember. You’re a tiny bit more agile with better stealth (tied with Edinburgh as the stealthiest cruiser at tier), but you have New Orleans shells (lower damage and no super heavy AP) with Baltimore reload and ballistics. Besides being a premium and the economic benefits of that, you’re giving up one of the biggest pluses Baltimore gets compared to the ships before her (better AP) for slightly more stealth. 

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Massive AA is a skill for ships with bad AA. It removes the buff of the sector system and gives a longer reload on it in exchange for better instant damage.

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don't bother with Massive Fire AA skill. WG in their infinite wisdom have basically made all AA captain skills useless

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3 hours ago, axyarthur said:

don't bother with Massive Fire AA skill. WG in their infinite wisdom have basically made all AA captain skills useless

Even if the AA traits, upgrades were better, it's not like people would use them.  Even in the RTS CV days when Carriers were significantly more dangerous...

Image result for rts cv reddit

(that is a 105.8k HP Tier X GK, BTW), when someone had the platform of a potentially good AA ship, I used to recommend an AA Build if they hated Carriers that much.  We actually had a much more powerful AA system to deal with the much more powerful CVs of those days.  But usually the reply was incredulous amazement that I recommend such a thing.

 

People for example want their BB Survival Build and refused to acknowledge that such a build left them completely open for air attacks.  They consciously, SPECIFICALLY made a build knowing full well that air attacks would be a weakness for them, and get angry when such attacks did come and punish them accordingly.

 

Too many times I saw something like someone having problems with North Carolina, Iowa, or some ship that could have fantastic AA with the awesome AA system we had then, recommended an AA Build to slaughter planes with (you know, the stuff they're on the boards complaining about EVER SINGLE DAY), but they got upset about such a suggestion.

 

Even my good friend who's a Unicum player was complaining in the RTS CV days about CVs getting through his Des Moines' AA.  I knew full well he had ZERO build dedication to AA... No traits, no upgrades, nothing for AA, but he complained

every

single

day

about Carriers.  Meanwhile I slaughtered planes in my AA spec Des Moines, praying for planes to come my way.  Him?  As great as he was, he relied on the AA reputation of Des Moines to scare CVs away.  I warned him many times that any half competent CV player can tell before the match starts whether he was AA spec or not in his DM, and once he knew that, he had zero respect for his AA.  They'd come after him as if he was a Tirpitz.

 

Again, even if we had an absolutely kick a** AA system right now, nobody would build for it, and would prefer to use The True World of Warships AA System: Complaining on the message boards about Carriers.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I warned him many times that any half competent CV player can tell before the match starts whether he was AA spec or not in his DM

How, out of interest?

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9 hours ago, Jason864 said:

Hey anyone else use Wichita now adays?

I have her built as an AA build for the lols including massive aa fire and AA mods and I click priority sector and its automatically yellow and on cooldown and doesn't seem to do anything. Is something going on here?

I play mine a couple times a week...  I didn't do anything for AA, I have regular cruiser build on it.  If you are against T10 CVs, best you can do is buddy up.

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8 hours ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

Massive AA gives you a larger boost to the burst damage when activating a priority sector in favor of the build up and increased damage over time. It’s only worth taking on ships with very low AA, all of which have builds that are more optimized and don’t have the points for massive AA. Since the rework and especially since the last round of AA changes at the end of summer last year make AA builds pretty much worthless, and the only parts potentially worth getting for AA are BFT and the slot 3 AA mod that increases flak bursts (depending on how many your ship produces since there’s a limit to how many will spawn in front of the planes instead of to the side - 8 max in front with any more spawned to the left or right).

For Wichita itself, it wasn’t as popular a ship compared to Baltimore from what I remember. You’re a tiny bit more agile with better stealth (tied with Edinburgh as the stealthiest cruiser at tier), but you have New Orleans shells (lower damage and no super heavy AP) with Baltimore reload and ballistics. Besides being a premium and the economic benefits of that, you’re giving up one of the biggest pluses Baltimore gets compared to the ships before her (better AP) for slightly more stealth. 

Wichita, is in reality is what she is in game.   A Pre-Baltimore.  She is a challenge to play but that is what also makes it fun...  It isn't an I win ship.

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10 hours ago, Jason864 said:

Hey anyone else use Wichita now adays?

I have her built as an AA build for the lols including massive aa fire and AA mods and I click priority sector and its automatically yellow and on cooldown and doesn't seem to do anything. Is something going on here?

I play Wichita a lot myself and have a heavy AA build on her (mainly because I use my 19 point DM captain in her.). It isn't the best USN AA cruiser on its tier but it does ok. The problem in your build is Massive Fire. Get it out of your build ASAP. It is effectively sabotaging your AA. Basically it trades the ramp-up damage that boosting your AA sector gives you, for a smaller, but immediate, damage burst.  Note the word "smaller." Its intent is to give weak AA ships a burst of AA so they can do some damage because they can't ever build enough to shoot down a plane, but this comes at cost of overall sustained AA damage for ships with good AA output.

Honestly it is a terrible skill all around mostly because it costs too much. There is simply no reason for a weak AA ship to spend 4 captain points to basically be a bit less weak. If you can't get over the threshold of shooting down a plane per pass there is no point in spending on AA at all. Right now it is an expensive trap for the unwary because it isn't super clear to most people that it should not be taken on a good AA boat and honestly should not be taken with other AA skills or modules. 

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As a general rule, pretty much all AA oriented captain skills and upgrades are kinda garbage. With the possible exception of BFT. But yeah, neither AFT nor the new MAA are worth four points. 

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16 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

As a general rule, pretty much all AA oriented captain skills and upgrades are kinda garbage. With the possible exception of BFT. But yeah, neither AFT nor the new MAA are worth four points. 

For large ships AFT definitely not worth it. MAA is not worth it on any ships, either, IMHO, as if you have a terrible AA ship, four captain points is too expensive to make your AA slightly less terrible when you could focus on survivability, damage, or utility instead.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

How, out of interest?

That, I can help with. In the old days, the AA rating number changed when you had AA upgrades and this was clearly visible on the team display on the load screen before the battle. Now , those numbers don't move no matter what you do, which I suppose could be a boon for hiding your AA build, but it is an important loss to the battle planning abilities of a CV player.

4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Even if the AA traits, upgrades were better, it's not like people would use them.  Even in the RTS CV days when Carriers were significantly more dangerous...

Image result for rts cv reddit

(that is a 105.8k HP Tier X GK, BTW), when someone had the platform of a potentially good AA ship, I used to recommend an AA Build if they hated Carriers that much.  We actually had a much more powerful AA system to deal with the much more powerful CVs of those days.  But usually the reply was incredulous amazement that I recommend such a thing.

And that is exactly why I was always big on my AA builds. People thought I was crazy, but when the flies started dropping around me and the CV player decided he had somewhere else to be, it more than paid off. Heck, when the old Manual AA skill was still a thing, I'd take ships like Akizuki, Kitakaze, and Harugumo into co-op (often easier to find CVs there at the time, plus bots CVs have always gone for DDs first) and setup AA ambushes for the toaster planes, just for the enjoyment of swatting flies out of the sky. Many people don't believe it, but the old Manual AA skill could make almost any ship with a long range AA battery into an effective AA ship. Case and point, my Yamato and Izumo pre-rework. I had them setup with what I called the 'one-ship-navy' build, full secondary battery build, plus manual AA, meaning that my main guns could handle cruisers and bigger, my secondaries could keep the DDs off me if things got nasty, and my AA could make me a very prickly target for planes. It worked out rather well, right up until WG killed that build with the rework (I went IFHE secondaries for them after that, though it looks like that may change again soon).

Also, having had five Kongo class battlecruisers, I decided to get creative with builds for each one. I had Kirishima as secondaries, Haruna for main gun accuracy, etc. Kongo herself was (and still sort of is) AA build. In the days where 7.2km long range AA from her was possible, plus the old Manual AA skill, she was a nasty surprise to more than a few low tier CV drivers.

I can list plenty of other examples of my 'unlikely AA flotilla', but I think I've used up enough space here. Suffice it to say that AA has always made a noticeable difference, and continues to do so now, even if the effect is reduced. Also, WG really should rethink the 'Massive AA Fire' skill and perhaps either lower the point requirement to fit the target tiers better, or buff the skill into relevance.

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1 minute ago, CaptHarlock_222 said:

In the old days, the AA rating number changed when you had AA upgrades and this was clearly visible on the team display on the load screen before the battle.

You mean the "compare your ship with other" option? OK, yeah, I see now. This sort of thing is probably why I am a 50% player rather than a 60%

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3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You mean the "compare your ship with other" option? OK, yeah, I see now. This sort of thing is probably why I am a 50% player rather than a 60%

The funny part is, I wasn't even playing CVs back when checking that was relevant to them. I always checked it to both see what on the enemy team was likely a dangerous build and to see what allies might need/want my AA umbrella. Yeah, I was/sometimes still am that kind of team player, I'd even warn our CVs of who looked to have an AA build that might not have been an obvious ship for the job.

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5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Even if the AA traits, upgrades were better, it's not like people would use them.  Even in the RTS CV days when Carriers were significantly more dangerous...

Because, before the rework, there were few CVs to justify a AA build. It was a heavy investiment that the vast majority of the battles it would be a waste because there would be no CVs. Even if you did find a CV, there was no guarantee that h would come no where near you. 

 

And now that CV are popular, there is no point of getting them because AA is useless. If you face a good CV player, you can have a full AA build and it wont matter, he can still strike and kill you. If you face a bad CV player, you dont need a full AA build to kill his planes, most of the times they eat flak and lose planes. Either way AA builds are useless. 

 

Why use a build that is situational or useless over a build that is actually effective? 

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3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

How, out of interest?

When the match is loading and still on the team rosters page, you could hover over a ship and look at their AA ratings.  After a while, you can tell what's "Stock" or "Fully researched" to an actual "AA Spec" for a given ship.  All the ratings of course change for a given ship given the type of build.  You can even tell what the difference was between an AA to Secondary Spec ship despite both sharing AFT & BFT that buffs both AA and Secondary (Artillery ratings).  I don't remember the values anymore since it's been over 1 year since the CV Rebork, but I do remember even as an absolutely mediocre CV user, I see a 90-something Rating Iowa, I knew he wasn't a true AA spec and I'd hammer him mercilessly as if he was a Tirpitz.  Gneisenau was one I specifically started to memorize.  Most of the time they were Secondary Spec at best, and you could hammer them with a CV.  However, every now and then, there would be crazies that did Manual AA Spec on her and she would be literally a "No Fly Death Bubble" of a BB.  I learned to watch for such threats.

 

I wasn't even a CV Main they were and still are by far my least played ship type, yet I learned how to do that out of necessity.  I had to.  Now imagine if I had been someone approaching calling themselves an actual CV Main with tons more games for the ship type.

1 hour ago, Xlap said:

Because, before the rework, there were few CVs to justify a AA build. It was a heavy investiment that the vast majority of the battles it would be a waste because there would be no CVs. Even if you did find a CV, there was no guarantee that h would come no where near you. 

 

And now that CV are popular, there is no point of getting them because AA is useless. If you face a good CV player, you can have a full AA build and it wont matter, he can still strike and kill you. If you face a bad CV player, you dont need a full AA build to kill his planes, most of the times they eat flak and lose planes. Either way AA builds are useless. 

 

Why use a build that is situational or useless over a build that is actually effective? 

Yet clowns around here complained

Every

Single

D*mn

Day

About Carriers.  Often the same exact dudes.  So by their jumping and screaming on a box, it seemed Carriers were a concern but apparently they weren't enough of a threat to actually do something in the game about it.  They refuse to do anything, do absolutely NOTHING about a threat according to them was a significant daily menace.

 

It's one thing to complain about CVs when you were in a Tirpitz getting TB cross dropped and AP Bombed at the same time in the RTS CV days, they got no air defense to speak of against the more powerful CVs of the era, not even AA Build would save them.  But it's another when people are using potentially killer AA ships and they're sitting there whining

Every

Single

D*mn

Day

About them and yet, they refuse to do anything about it but go on the message boards and complain.

 

I have often done Secondary Spec Battleships even during the Pre-CV Rebork days.  I have even gone to the extent of IFHE Secondary Spec Builds.  I know such builds specifically leave compromises, i.e. no Survival Build elements to them, and in the case of the IFHE Sec.Spec ones, the forsaking of CE prevents Full Stealth Build.  But I never came to the boards b**tching about dealing with issues my builds specifically left me open to.  Apparently most of the people around here can't deal with things like that.

 

I have immense contempt for the player base of this game.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Gawd, yes. 

People would post screenshots of their high-tier USN cruisers getting bombed, and gripe gripe gripe, and then you'd ask if they had even a partial AA build, and they'd start screeching about how anyone who wasted points on AA Skills or slots on AA Upgrades was an idiot -- never mind that back in the day, just taking AFT and BFT gave you both a huge and wicked AA bubble, and halfway decent cruiser secondaries, on those USN cruisers, you didn't even need  a full AA build.  

Or German BBs, I'd ask if someone had taken AFT and BFT for the double-effect on secondaries and AA, and the responses were often toxic. 

It's like people were determined to not invest in AA, and yet felt entitled to peak AA efficacy anyway.  I figured if enough of them had actually loaded up on AA boosts, they'd have put the old RTS carriers out of business. 

 

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As for Wichita itself, it's great.

How many tier 8 heavy cruisers can literally weave their way around incoming fire?  There are upper-tier DDs that feel less agile than Wichita

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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13 hours ago, Jason864 said:

Hey anyone else use Wichita now adays?

I have her built as an AA build for the lols including massive aa fire and AA mods and I click priority sector and its automatically yellow and on cooldown and doesn't seem to do anything. Is something going on here?

As others have said, you give up the DPS boost/nerf for more instant damage.

How the priority sector reinforcement works is you get a +35% (+50% cruisers only) buff to the priority side's AA DPS and lose that amount on the other side. The buff ramps up for ~5 seconds and then runs the rest of the time at full power (10s for DDs & CL/CAs and 15s for BBs & CVs). If the planes are in the AA aura when you activate priority sector reinforcement, you get a instant damage bonus vs the last plane in the squadron of 3.5% of the whole squadron's original plane HP total (DDs do 5%).

 

What MAAF does is wipe out the DPS boost, but double the percentage of instant damage. So you get 7% of the whole squadron's original HP and DDs do 10%.

So Wichita's DPS, before skills modify it,  is as follows (hit chance included); Short is 119 DPS, Mid is 176 DPS and long is 86 DPS and over 10s that is 1190, 1176 and 860 damage per AA bracket.. She is a cruiser so gets +50% AA buff or 179 DPS for short, 264 DPS for Mid and 129 DPS for long AA for the side that is buffed. Over the 10s of sector reinforcement that is 1670, 2464 and 1204 damage per AA bracket with the ramp up included, but only on the priority side. The other side has 50% less AA DPS. Let's say you are being attacked by the top Shokaku torpedo planes with mods and skills to raise the HP to 2,010 (10 planes). The instant boost would be 20,100 * 0.035 or 704 HP applied to the last plane.

 

Now with MAAF, the +50% boost is removed, so you have the base AA DPS on both sides, but you get 1,407 HP instant damage to the last plane when you activate the priority sector, IF the planes are inside the AA aura. The boost is instant, so priority sector ends and goes into cooldown immediately.

 

So the question becomes is that extra 704 instant damage from MAAF worth losing the extra ~60 DPS in short,  ~88 DPS in Mid, and ~43 DPS in long range AA on the buffed AA side of the ship? That is 3.7s in the short range bracket, 5.4s in the Mid range bracket, or 16.4s in only the long bracket. Most planes have to get fairly close to attack, so should run into the Mid range bracket at least before breaking off. So MAAF could be useful on planes that attack from a distance and never enter the Mid range AA, but that is not too likely I think.

 

Now look at Asashio with it's 2x2 25mm guns that provide 11 DPS. You get 15 DPS when you do priority sector, but do 1005 damage for the instant bonus. For MAAF you keep the 11 DPS on both sides, but get 2010 damage to the last plane, which is MUCH more than you could get with the DPS boost alone. Assuming you can find the 4 points for MAAF on a DD build.

 

NOTE: MAAF adds +50% to the priority sector cooldown so;

DDs and CL/CAs get a cooldown of 15s instead of 10s.

BBs get a cooldown of 22.5s instead of 15s.

CVs get a cooldown of 7.5s instead of 5s.

 

12 hours ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

Since the rework and especially since the last round of AA changes at the end of summer last year make AA builds pretty much worthless, and the only parts potentially worth getting for AA are BFT and the slot 3 AA mod that increases flak bursts (depending on how many your ship produces since there’s a limit to how many will spawn in front of the planes instead of to the side - 8 max in front with any more spawned to the left or right).

This is no longer true as of this patch. AAGM1 in slot 3 now gives a -20% reduction in cooldown time on the priority sector.

DDs and CL/CAs go from 10s to 8s cooldown on priority sector reinforcement. With MAAF & AGM1 in slot 3 the cooldown is 12s.

BBs go from 15s to 12s cooldown on priority sector reinforcement. With MAAF & AGM1 in slot 3 the cooldown is 18s.

CVs go from 5s to 4s cooldown on priority sector reinforcement. With MAAF & AGM1 in slot 3 the cooldown is 6s.

 

So if you do not need anything else in slot 3 and are using MAAF, then AAGM1 makes sense to me. Otherwise 1-3s less cooldown time on priority sector reinforcement does not see worth it when there are so many other good options in slot 3.

 

The +2 flak burst was moved to the slot 6 AAM2. It now buffs the AA like the old AAGM2, the secondaries like the old SBM2 AND the flak bursts like the old AAGM2. Unless you NEED the range, reload or torp mods in slot 6, this is a nice thing to have if you have some decent secondaries and AA.

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Wichita is a good cruiser at T8.  I've read reviews that her described as a boring premium, with the Baltimore having better AP shells, AA and radar.  All are fair criticisms, and she is certainly not overpowered.  She is a light cruiser with heavy cruiser plating, guns, and utility.  I love the way she handles with the acceleration upgrade on her. 

I do think she should have US light cruiser utility where DFAA and Hydro each get a dedicated consumable slot.  If she is stuck with US light cruiser (9 km) radar, then this seems like a fair tradeoff.  I believe that one change would end her reputation as a boring premium.

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