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Wolfswetpaws

Don't Worry. We are still sailing half a Battleship. ;-) An idea for use of IJN Ise class BB's in game.

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Just finished watching a well done video from Drachinifel on the IJN Ise ship class, this morning.

It occurred to me that these are interesting ships and including them in the WOWs game would mean that BB Captains could sail ships that are equipped with their own Air Cover and strike capability thanks to the stern having been converted to become an aircraft carrier platform.

If this is implemented then:
~"I need intelligence data!", requests can be fulfilled by a BB
~"Provide Air Cover!", requests could be fulfilled by a BB
~The BB with a CV stern could use a combination of its spotting, gunnery and aerial strike capability to make a difference in a battle.
~If used in a historical role, it could also be the most well-armed troop & cargo ferrying ship class in the game, thus adding to the potential number of scenario operations that could be played.

To share the inspiration I go this morning, here's a link to Drachinifel's video for your enjoyment.  :-)

IJN Ise - Guide 167

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I watched this yesterday and was fascinated.  I see a potential problem with being a "jack of all trades and master of none".  But I must admit it's a very clever idea.

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7 minutes ago, Hiro804 said:

I watched this yesterday and was fascinated.  I see a potential problem with being a "jack of all trades and master of none".  But I must admit it's a very clever idea.

:cap_like:

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3 minutes ago, JEFFREY_LEI said:

That’s cool! 

:cap_like:

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Similar has been discussed about the Tone, just no decent way WG could model the gameplay. 

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They had these in navy field back in the day. Just limited by the number of planes but I always wanted one. I thought the same thing.

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Since the rework, I thought the best way to model these hybrids is to give them a scout plane with short cooldown like the Lazo's and plenty of charges, plus a CV-like auto-deploying fighter consumable. While this might not be fully historically representative of the actual air groups, it would at least fit in with the theme of these ships having far more utility aircraft at their disposal than the average battleship or cruiser and it would avoid the issue of how to juggle BB/cruiser and carrier control mechanisms.

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4 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Since the rework, I thought the best way to model these hybrids is to give them a scout plane with short cooldown like the Lazo's and plenty of charges, plus a CV-like auto-deploying fighter consumable. While this might not be fully historically representative of the actual air groups, it would at least fit in with the theme of these ships having far more utility aircraft at their disposal than the average battleship or cruiser and it would avoid the issue of how to juggle BB/cruiser and carrier control mechanisms.

Or, an auto-strike plane deployment against ships "danger close" to the BB.   I would make the entire deploy options as consumable keys:  Anti-Air, Spotting, anti-ship and anti-sub.....  No human intervention with a time period like a torpedo load time to re-arm the variants.......   Why not, that was the concept of the ship's design.........we can't help it the IJN was ahead of it's time !  A Swiss Army knife in a game on very small, congested maps would be a force multiplier to any teams TO&E....  Add Radar to this ship and you'd have a serious support ship........  And, for us that are IJN mains, well, the IJN was ahead of just about everyone else conceptually.   I can't wait to see the I-400 series subs !

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18 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Since the rework, I thought the best way to model these hybrids is to give them a scout plane with short cooldown like the Lazo's and plenty of charges, plus a CV-like auto-deploying fighter consumable. While this might not be fully historically representative of the actual air groups, it would at least fit in with the theme of these ships having far more utility aircraft at their disposal than the average battleship or cruiser and it would avoid the issue of how to juggle BB/cruiser and carrier control mechanisms.

Or.. you could toggle back and forth from BB mode to....(drum roll) CV RTS mode.

*Hears a cruiser and DD captains fainting.

*Hears WG scream..nooooooooooooo!

I can only imagine the mayhem of a battle carrier as it blaps cruisers from range with HE to deprive it of AA. Then sends in two combat flights of torpedo bombers to finish it off.

Then spots DDs permanently so loaded HE detonates them.

And Battleships that decide to close in have to deal with secbat that is dual purpose, torpedo RTS bombers, and then the guns.

To quote Jar Jar Binks: "Ise bad idea, Ise bad."

Oh what a tangled web we weave when BBs do CV.

 

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman
addendum
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1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Just finished watching a well done video from Drachinifel on the IJN Ise ship class, this morning.

It occurred to me that these are interesting ships and including them in the WOWs game would mean that BB Captains could sail ships that are equipped with their own Air Cover and strike capability thanks to the stern having been converted to become an aircraft carrier platform.

If this is implemented then:
~"I need intelligence data!", requests can be fulfilled by a BB
~"Provide Air Cover!", requests could be fulfilled by a BB
~The BB with a CV stern could use a combination of its spotting, gunnery and aerial strike capability to make a difference in a battle.
~If used in a historical role, it could also be the most well-armed troop & cargo ferrying ship class in the game, thus adding to the potential number of scenario operations that could be played.

To share the inspiration I go this morning, here's a link to Drachinifel's video for your enjoyment.  :-)

IJN Ise - Guide 167

This thing was added in the mobile version of the game, if I'm not mistaken. But I haven't heard anything of it.

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2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Just finished watching a well done video from Drachinifel on the IJN Ise ship class, this morning.

It occurred to me that these are interesting ships and including them in the WOWs game would mean that BB Captains could sail ships that are equipped with their own Air Cover and strike capability thanks to the stern having been converted to become an aircraft carrier platform.

If this is implemented then:
~"I need intelligence data!", requests can be fulfilled by a BB
~"Provide Air Cover!", requests could be fulfilled by a BB
~The BB with a CV stern could use a combination of its spotting, gunnery and aerial strike capability to make a difference in a battle.
~If used in a historical role, it could also be the most well-armed troop & cargo ferrying ship class in the game, thus adding to the potential number of scenario operations that could be played.

To share the inspiration I go this morning, here's a link to Drachinifel's video for your enjoyment.  :-)

IJN Ise - Guide 167

Funny that y ou post this topic @Wolfswetpaws, because I was thinking of posting a tock on the Ise class just as you did!:cap_like: Watchjng Drachinifel's video also is responsible for giving me the idea.  His videos are awesome!

 

Now.....me personally, I think that it would be too difficult Otto include a ship in the game (WoWS) that is a battleship AND an aircraft carrier.  (There would have to be a new ship icon, but I think that it would be too difficult to manage firing the battleship guns AND flying a airplane squadron as a player. Since only secondaries and AA guns are automatic on a ship, it would be hard to keep switching between firing the main guns and then to flying airplanes)

I think, what should happen for the Ise-class is to make them a battleship :BB:, but who has the Spotting Aircraft consumable AND Fighter Aircraft consumable.  In other words, be the first warship in the entire game to have both fighter consumables available to it, and also give the Ise a bigger Fighter Patrol fighter plane number (like 5-7 aircraft) which would be a huge deterrent to enemy carriers which attack the Ise, because they will surely lose a lot of bombers/rockets if they attack.

The only thing that would need to be checked out on Wargaming's part it whether or not a ship can handle operating a Spotting Aircraft and Fighter Patrol at the same time without any glitches, etc, etc.

 

In terms of Tier status, I think the Ise-class would be suited for tiers VI-VIII.  Personally, Tier VII or VIII would be best, me thinks.

Edited by anonym_bleJN7gXeLqd

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While on the surface this looks like a really good design (how can you go wrong with a ship that is both BB and CV?) - in real world application, it is terrible. You take a third of the BBs firepower away to produce a slow large, operationally handicapped carrier that could only carry 22 aircraft,  half of which were vulnerable (some would say obsolete) float planes while the other half were simply a 'one-shot' attack - as they couldn't land back on the ship. As someone said above it is a (poor) jack-of-all-trades, excelling at nothing.

That said, I'd love to see this ship in game, as it would be a really unique and fun vessel to play.

If I were in charge I would make it Tier 6 BB with controllable aircraft (as it is essentially a bigger Kongo with an aviation bonus). It would have two 6 plane squadrons of D4Y2 (like those on the T6 Ryujo) dive bombers that could only be used once each (or alternatively one large 11 plane squadron that could only be used once). And one 8 plane squadron of E16A float plane dive bombers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aichi_E16A) that could be reused - since these planes COULD be recovered. That way these slow float planes could be used as either attack planes or player controlled scouts. The remaining float planes (of the total 22 aircraft aboard) would be standard spotting planes for the ship.  

This ship would be unique to run as you would have to choose between controlling aircraft or the ship itself at any given time, thus, like in real life, making the ship not ideal for either job - but still a blast to play!  

Edited by capncrunch21

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you get a +1, just for the Star Wars reference in the thread title

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3 hours ago, tcbaker777 said:

you get a +1, just for the Star Wars reference in the thread title

Thank you.  Bonus point to you for recognizing it.  :-)
 

 

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Thanks to everyone who has chimed in and pointed out game-mechanic-concerns and provided constructive ideas as potential solutions.

I'm glad the conversation has been so thoughtful and entertaining, thus far.  

Tagged for @Hapa_Fodder and @Kalvothe, just to get some "official" attention.  :-)

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10 hours ago, Darmokattenagra said:

They had these in navy field back in the day. Just limited by the number of planes but I always wanted one. I thought the same thing.

Problem with them was, you really couldn't shoot and fly planes at the same time, due to a faster pace.

Many using them wouldn't even mount guns to save weight.

Ironically, the Oyodo was useful with guns. You stayed back with the other CVs, and if a DD got that far, you could put the flying on hold, and sink the DD with 6.1" guns and/or torpedoes. An Ise trying that was easy for the DD to sink, if the Ise didn't get him with the first or second salvo, which was harder because only 4 guns.

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I like the idea however WGing can't balance CVs or other ship types well, so it really doesn't bode well for them.

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18 hours ago, Darmokattenagra said:

They had these in navy field back in the day. Just limited by the number of planes but I always wanted one. I thought the same thing.

I used to quite enjoy the Cruiser versions, never got high enough to have the BB one. It was a bit of a nightmare till they separated them out from being a "CV" as you couldn't do what a CV could but hogged slot of one. Would have worked better under RTS as you could set it to attack if needed to be firing guns or whatever.

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22 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

Or, an auto-strike plane deployment against ships "danger close" to the BB.   I would make the entire deploy options as consumable keys:  Anti-Air, Spotting, anti-ship and anti-sub.....  No human intervention with a time period like a torpedo load time to re-arm the variants.......   Why not, that was the concept of the ship's design.........we can't help it the IJN was ahead of it's time !  A Swiss Army knife in a game on very small, congested maps would be a force multiplier to any teams TO&E....  Add Radar to this ship and you'd have a serious support ship........  And, for us that are IJN mains, well, the IJN was ahead of just about everyone else conceptually.   I can't wait to see the I-400 series subs !

I don't think they are going to let you do bomb attacks with your two aircraft. 

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23 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Just finished watching a well done video from Drachinifel on the IJN Ise ship class, this morning.

It occurred to me that these are interesting ships and including them in the WOWs game would mean that BB Captains could sail ships that are equipped with their own Air Cover and strike capability thanks to the stern having been converted to become an aircraft carrier platform.

If this is implemented then:
~"I need intelligence data!", requests can be fulfilled by a BB
~"Provide Air Cover!", requests could be fulfilled by a BB
~The BB with a CV stern could use a combination of its spotting, gunnery and aerial strike capability to make a difference in a battle.
~If used in a historical role, it could also be the most well-armed troop & cargo ferrying ship class in the game, thus adding to the potential number of scenario operations that could be played.

To share the inspiration I go this morning, here's a link to Drachinifel's video for your enjoyment.  :-)

IJN Ise - Guide 167

You would have a choice. Drive the ship and shoot the guns or drive the planes. You would not be able to do both at the same time.

 

22 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Since the rework, I thought the best way to model these hybrids is to give them a scout plane with short cooldown like the Lazo's and plenty of charges, plus a CV-like auto-deploying fighter consumable. While this might not be fully historically representative of the actual air groups, it would at least fit in with the theme of these ships having far more utility aircraft at their disposal than the average battleship or cruiser and it would avoid the issue of how to juggle BB/cruiser and carrier control mechanisms.

This. Or just give the Ise and Tone both spotter and fighter plane consumables at the same time, both under player control.

 

22 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Or.. you could toggle back and forth from BB mode to....(drum roll) CV RTS mode.

You have RTS plane mode or WASD plane mode. Since WG threw over RTS mode for WASD mode, not going to happen.

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2 hours ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

I don't think they are going to let you do bomb attacks with your two aircraft. 

Actually, the BNI lists that class as having 22 aircarft (11 DB/ 11 Fighters).

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