Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
jags_domain

Massive AA fire?

15 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

2,103
[SOV]
Members
4,621 posts

The 4 point skill Massive AA fire.  The description seems to contradict its self.  Does it increase the continuous damage?

Does it do 100 percent mpre damge with flak only?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,009
[SBS]
Members
5,896 posts
1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

The 4 point skill Massive AA fire.  The description seems to contradict its self.  Does it increase the continuous damage?

Does it do 100 percent mpre damge with flak only?

The massive AA fire skill does three things.  It gives you a 100% increase in the instantaneous burst damage from priority sector.  So you burst doubles, 5% to 10% for DDs, 3.5% to 7% for all other ships.  The down side is twofold, you no longer get an increased DPS with priority sector, and you have a 50% longer reload time on your sectors.  There is on one that thinks this skill is worth having on any ship. 

Edited by Slimeball91

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,568
[PVE]
Members
19,848 posts
12,024 battles
1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

The 4 point skill Massive AA fire.  The description seems to contradict its self.  Does it increase the continuous damage?

Does it do 100 percent mpre damge with flak only?

Not quite.

The priority sector normally boosts the continuous DPS by +/-35% (+/-50% for cruisers) and provides a 3%-5% of the squadron's HP in an instant damage bonus depending on ship type to the last plane, only if the squadron is in the AA aura when activated.

 

MAAF does away with the DPS boost, but doubles the instant damage bonus to 6%-10% depending on the ship type.

 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Commander#Massive_AA_Fire

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Anti-Aircraft_Fire#Sector_Reinforcement

 

Edit: forgot the longer cooldown

So 10s goes to 15s and 15s goes to 22.5s.

If you take AAGM1 in slot 3, then it's 12s and 18s with MAAF.

Edited by Kizarvexis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,682
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
5,865 posts
17,905 battles
13 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

The massive AA fire skill does three things.  It gives you a 100% increase in the instantaneous burst damage from priority sector.  So you burst doubles, 5% to 10% for DDs, 3.5% to 7% for all other ships.  The down side is twofold, you no longer get an increased DPS with priority sector, and you have a 50% longer reload time on your sectors.  There is on one that thinks this skill is worth having on any ship. 

Above is basically correct.

To OP.  WG basically created this skill to address complaints about low AA ships (primarily low AA DD ships) that can't touch aircraft.  Bumping the instant damage to 10% (for DDs) gives them an instant punch against a full squadron.  For example, an Enterprise rocket squadron at 8 aircraft, it will zap 80% of the health of one of those aircraft instantly.  It is only somewhat useful on ships with poor AA as the down sides hurt the AA more (if it's decent) than the upside instant boost.  Although Slime is correct that it's pretty useless, I still run it on a few of my DDs...just because I like it when my wimpy AA DDs get to shoot down aircraft.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,009
[SBS]
Members
5,896 posts
18 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Above is basically correct.

To OP.  WG basically created this skill to address complaints about low AA ships (primarily low AA DD ships) that can't touch aircraft.  Bumping the instant damage to 10% (for DDs) gives them an instant punch against a full squadron.  For example, an Enterprise rocket squadron at 8 aircraft, it will zap 80% of the health of one of those aircraft instantly.  It is only somewhat useful on ships with poor AA as the down sides hurt the AA more (if it's decent) than the upside instant boost.  Although Slime is correct that it's pretty useless, I still run it on a few of my DDs...just because I like it when my wimpy AA DDs get to shoot down aircraft.

This is a bit of a nit pick, so please excuse me.  The Enterprise has 12 rocket planes in its squadron, so massive AA fire will shoot down one plane and do some light damage to a second.  This is where skill does the most damage, a 12 plane squadron against a DD's 10% burst damage.  That said, it won't really do much for you, since the other 11 planes will still troll you for several strikes.  Not worth it in my opinion.

Edited by Slimeball91

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,568
[PVE]
Members
19,848 posts
12,024 battles
16 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Above is basically correct.

To OP.  WG basically created this skill to address complaints about low AA ships (primarily low AA DD ships) that can't touch aircraft.  Bumping the instant damage to 10% (for DDs) gives them an instant punch against a full squadron.  For example, an Enterprise rocket squadron at 8 aircraft, it will zap 80% of the health of one of those aircraft instantly.  It is only somewhat useful on ships with poor AA as the down sides hurt the AA more (if it's decent) than the upside instant boost.  Although Slime is correct that it's pretty useless, I still run it on a few of my DDs...just because I like it when my wimpy AA DDs get to shoot down aircraft.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

This is a bit of a nit pick, so please excuse me.  The Enterprise has 12 rocket planes in its squadron, so massive AA fire will shoot down one plane and do so some light damage to a second.  This is where skill does the most damage, a 12 plane squadron against a DD's 10% burst damage.  That said, it won't really do much for you, since the other 11 planes will still troll you for several strikes.  Not worth in my opinion.

This^^^

The percentage instant bonus is from the whole squadron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,009
[SBS]
Members
5,896 posts
4 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

This^^^

The percentage instant bonus is from the whole squadron.

Kiz, while I'm nit picking.  I see in the wiki it says CVs get a 3% burst.  I have no idea what they actually have, but the info WG gave us when the change went live is that it was 3.5% like the others (excluding DD's 5%).  I suppose it could have changed, or maybe it was just bad info from WG. https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/game-updates/update-087-french-destroyers-part-2/

234f4376-c33e-11e9-83ea-d89d6715223c.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
432
[MPIRE]
[MPIRE]
Beta Testers
1,821 posts
10,838 battles
57 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

The down side is twofold, you no longer get an increased DPS with priority sector, and you have a 50% longer reload time on your sectors.

I'm going to be really nitpicky here, but I would really consider this one downside and one upside.  Losing the DPS is a bit loss if you have any respectable AA, but the longer CD is offset by the fact that the ability has no runtime and goes into CD immediately.

If a DD hits a sector w/o the skill, it runs for 10 seconds then goes on CD for 10, giving you 20 between initial bursts.  With the skill, it immediately hits then goes on CD for 15, giving you 15 seconds between bursts.

Overall I'd say the skill is definitely not worth it.  Numbers wise it does provide an appreciable increase in damage in damage to planes for many DDs, it's just that it's still a negligible amount that comes with a significant opportunity cost to run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,009
[SBS]
Members
5,896 posts
1 minute ago, Kenjister said:

I'm going to be really nitpicky here, but I would really consider this one downside and one upside.  Losing the DPS is a bit loss if you have any respectable AA, but the longer CD is offset by the fact that the ability has no runtime and goes into CD immediately.

If a DD hits a sector w/o the skill, it runs for 10 seconds then goes on CD for 10, giving you 20 between initial bursts.  With the skill, it immediately hits then goes on CD for 15, giving you 15 seconds between bursts.

Overall I'd say the skill is definitely not worth it.  Numbers wise it does provide an appreciable increase in damage in damage to planes for many DDs, it's just that it's still a negligible amount that comes with a significant opportunity cost to run.

Good point about the faster cycle time.  Someone had brought that before in another MAAF discussion and I completely forgot about it. 

And I totally agree with your assessment.  If this was a 2 point skill it might be something to consider for some DDs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,568
[PVE]
Members
19,848 posts
12,024 battles
1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

Kiz, while I'm nit picking.  I see in the wiki it says CVs get a 3% burst.  I have no idea what they actually have, but the info WG gave us when the change went live is that it was 3.5% like the others (excluding DD's 5%).  I suppose it could have changed, or maybe it was just bad info from WG. https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/game-updates/update-087-french-destroyers-part-2/

234f4376-c33e-11e9-83ea-d89d6715223c.jpg

In-game currently

DD -> +5% instant, 10s run-time, 10s cool down, +35% reinforcement

CL/CA -> +3.5% instant, 10s run-time, 10s cool down, +50% reinforcement

BB -> +3.5% instant, 15s run-time, 15s cool down, +35% reinforcement

CV -> +3.5% instant, 15s run-time, 5s cool down, +35% reinforcement

So the wiki is incorrect on the CV %. If you don't update it, I'll update after this next errand.

 

1 hour ago, Kenjister said:

I'm going to be really nitpicky here, but I would really consider this one downside and one upside.  Losing the DPS is a bit loss if you have any respectable AA, but the longer CD is offset by the fact that the ability has no runtime and goes into CD immediately.

If a DD hits a sector w/o the skill, it runs for 10 seconds then goes on CD for 10, giving you 20 between initial bursts.  With the skill, it immediately hits then goes on CD for 15, giving you 15 seconds between bursts.

Overall I'd say the skill is definitely not worth it.  Numbers wise it does provide an appreciable increase in damage in damage to planes for many DDs, it's just that it's still a negligible amount that comes with a significant opportunity cost to run.

I had not noticed this as I do not use MAAF. Since we have PTS this weekend, I'll try it out later today. Although the cooldown is 5s on CVs, not 15s like I thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
974
[KAPPA]
Members
3,110 posts
8,196 battles
3 hours ago, Slimeball91 said:

Good point about the faster cycle time.  Someone had brought that before in another MAAF discussion and I completely forgot about it. 

And I totally agree with your assessment.  If this was a 2 point skill it might be something to consider for some DDs.

I'd argue 1 point. It's a tradeoff, and one that isn't even useful for many ships. If you have a lot of premiums, it's a skill that effectively bars a commander from certain ships, too.

For instance, I'd love to have massive AA on my Viribus Unitis, but my Friesland, not so much.

Heck, I'd love if massive AA weren't even a skill, but an AA mod for, say, slot 2. Or make it usable in any slot, as they all have useful stuff you'd be trading for it. Puting it on a commander is just annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
412
[KAPPA]
Members
1,339 posts
7,483 battles

Yeah, I think it's most useful on a ship that has about 2-4 rifle caliber MGs for AA, as anything else that has even a modicum of DPS is likely going to be better off with the DPS boost from normal sector defense. It's definitely an over priced skill in terms of both downsides and skill points. I realize the old Manual AA skill would be massively OP with the rework (heck I'd argue it was OP before the rework, I had such fun in my full AA build ships just lying in wait to shred anything that came near me, Harugumo being a particular favorite to use it on), but I think the skill we got in it's place was a couple steps too far in the other direction. 

I almost wonder if it should be replaced with a skill that either increases the accuracy of mid-range and short-range AA mounts temporarily while sector defense is active (which would be useful for almost any ship) or increases the number of flak bursts temporarily while sector defense is active (which would only be useful on ships that can generate flak bursts). I tend to favor the first one, as it would be more usable for any ship type, rather than favoring ships with heavy long-range AA batteries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
366
[DUD]
Members
706 posts
2,470 battles

Whatever you do, don't use this skill.  Used it on my Alaska B and it was the biggest waste ever.   It needs a severe change as well as with Manual Secondaries.   Both are basically more of a disadvantage than an advantage when using

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
87
[K0]
Members
186 posts
4,295 battles

Nice to see this come up again. I've had Massive AA on my US DD captain and not been sure whether it was helpful or not. I think i'll change it up for something else now thanks to your discussion!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24
[D33P6]
Members
220 posts
14,837 battles
On 2/22/2020 at 9:51 AM, Slimeball91 said:

The massive AA fire skill does three things.  It gives you a 100% increase in the instantaneous burst damage from priority sector.  So you burst doubles, 5% to 10% for DDs, 3.5% to 7% for all other ships.  The down side is twofold, you no longer get an increased DPS with priority sector, and you have a 50% longer reload time on your sectors.  There is on one that thinks this skill is worth having on any ship. 

Hence the problem with CVs.  It's not the CVs really that are the problem, its that they none of the counters to them are effective.  Mino, Wooster, etc should be feared by CVs and avoided, particularly if they load all the AA abilities...but they don't do much more than any other ship, and therefore can't even protect themselves.

I would say that this is probably realistic (what ship in WWII could defend itself against a concerted air attack?), but this isn't supposed to be about realism, its supposed to be about playability.  If realism were the factor, at higher tiers the only purpose of every other ship would be to defend the CV, because naval warfare became all about the CV.

it is strange to me, though, that some of the non CA's, like the Kidd and Friesland, seem to just shred planes, when they have less AA than Wooster/Mino.  Why is that?  Contiuous vs burst damage?  Or just some hidden screw CA AA nerf?

Edited by DrunkenSailor63
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×