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XurMP

STOP MESSING UP AXIS SHIPS WG!!

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This is a rage post from a weeb and weharboo that has had enough of WG constantly screwing over Axis ships, continue reading at your own risk but if you don't consider the constant crewing a fact, I would suggest you just do something more useful with your time because reading this will probably only trigger you.

 

Alright, now that that's off the way... Does anyone else had enough of this absolute bull ship? I almost lost it when Yuudachi, Yukikaze and both B-65 were released so close to each other but eventually calmed down thanks to the false belief that all those ships were just mistakes and would get buffed soon... Yeah, they are never going to get buffed and we all know it...

 

Just in case you are not entirely sure of where I'm coming from... How many actually good premiums all of the Axis nations have? HSF Harakaze, Asashio, T-61 and... Atago? Okey, it's four of how many? Oh... 4 out of 42... Yeeeeeeah... Not even 10% are good, only 9.52% are good...

Yes three Kamikaze clones exist but they have been out of access for years and don't even say Musashi is good, she only has MM going for her and 

 

Now let's take a look at Allied ships:

• Amazing/OP category: Stalingrad, Georgia, Massachusetts, Smolensk, Ohio, Bourgogne

• Amazing/OP no longer available: Kutuzov, Belfast, Benham, Belfast, Enterprise

• Good: Salem, Atlanta, JB, Alaska, Lenin, Black, Neustrashimy, Nelson, Cossack, Sommers, Flint

• Good no longer available: Puerto Rico, Missouri

 

Out of 79 allied premium ships 11 are straight up very good or directly over powered while in total 24 are at least quite good ships that everyone should have the privilege to play at least once. Is quite and upgrade over that 9.52% but how much? Well counting only borderline OP ships we have a 13.92% of the total premiums while counting all the good ones it reached a impressive 30.38%... 

 

What can we get out of this small chart? Basically that almost 1 out of 3 allied premium ships is going to be at least good while the only 1 out of 10 Axis premium ships is even worth looking at... 

 

"But that has to be only in the past, they surely cannot allow such a disparity!" someone may think but with the latest ships... 

 

- Siegfried/Aegir: Completely worthless bad attempts at cloning Alaska for the KMS. The armor is absolutely worthless, the gun performance is average and to top it all, they don't get any team utility whatsoever. 

- Yashima: Two ST iterations later and she is still an absolute joke of worse copy pasted Yamato. Yes yes she is not even in live testing but apply the same logic we all use to the absurd Russian Cruisers... The ship is being tested internally, just not released for CCs. She gets extremely bad reload, NC shell speeds, 150mm armor fuse threshold for some reason and worsened Yamato accuracy (due to lacking the legendary) to get improved AP alpha and some AA...? What...? 

- Odin: Probably the only promising one on the axis side but got completely nerf hammered with a extremely overkill 20% HP nerf making even some Tier 5s like Kongo have more HP than her... Yeah good luck facing Tier 10 CVs or Smolensk with Kongo HP on a BB, will be extremely fun and balanced.

- Hayate:  Textbook example of excellent idea but awful execution... She was supposed to be a in between Shimakaze and Harugumo but ended up being a poor man's Gearing for quite a lot of things but specially due to the extremely poor 6.1 concealment that make all the gunboats be on your range (Grozo and Daring both have 6.0 while Haru gets 6.2) that absolutely destroy with with nothing you can do about it. Guns are decent enough but cannot be used to kill the DDs you would think you would prey on due to them outspotting you by a massive 0.5km. Smoke is a must as you cannot go TRB Yugumo mode on her due to the very very poor concealment. Almost all DDs requested a concealment buff to at very least 5.9 yet WG as always just wants to fck up with the Axis prems...

 

Before you go "All those ships are still WIP, they will likely get buffed" just look at most past Axis prems. Siegfried is already in the strange limbo where some WIP ships don't get changed for months and never ever change again, we will get her like that eventually. Yashima haven't even started live testing but so there may be some hope for her but let's be real, she won't be Thunderer all over again, probably just another addition to the endless list of things like both B-65, Yahagi, Yuudachi and all those other ships that despite almost everyone agreeing that they need heavy buffs WG released them anyways. Odin... It's a shame what happened to her but in the same way everyone screamed at WG to give the heal and torp range back to Siegfried, they just won't restore her HP or give her a superheal. Hayate... She was confirmed in a stream to be finished and today the insane pricing of 2.000.000 FXP was kind of released so... Yeah, good luck selling a lot of Hayate WG.

 

Just to clarify: IJN is almost only affected on the Premium side of things as most of the tech tree ships are at least decent WG unnerf the IJN torpedoboats but in KMS case... Well we all know how many years of complaining it took them to do some minor buffs to both BBs and Hindi although they haven't buffed the DDs... Maybe in 2025 they will decrease the reload of the 128mm by 0.1 seconds and stop overbuffing KMS ships for another few years.

 

CONCLUSION:

Despite how many times WG claims all nations are treated equally... That's not the case at all and since they love numbers and spreadsheets that much I decided to prove them wrong. Will they care? No, not at all but I'm just tired of this constant screwing over all Axis ships... I'm sure this post will get downvoted to hell but someone somewhere will also agree with this feeling...

 

 

Hope you all have a good day and take care of yourselfs :cap_like:

 

 

Edited by XurMP
Changed title, thanks for the advice
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Purposefully avoiding the profanity filter is going to get your thread disappeared.  I would change the title if you want it to stick around.

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1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

Conveniently ignoring Konig Albert and GC (GC being so bad they actually TRIED to do something about it)

Konig Albert is a Tier 3 with no AA whatsoever, I also skipped Emperor Nikolai for the exact same reason despite Nikolai being extremely good 

GC is a bit of a strange case... WG for once actually tried to nerf her by placing her at T6 but many people didn't want their hardened Pizza touched and sadly the chance of actually balancing OP premiums was thrown out the window... Now with Tier 5 being the Tier with more CVs and the below average AA GC has... Probably not nearly as OP as she used to be although I must admit I completely forgot about her, so my bad there

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6 minutes ago, XurMP said:

Konig Albert is a Tier 3 with no AA whatsoever, I also skipped Emperor Nikolai for the exact same reason despite Nikolai being extremely good 

GC is a bit of a strange case... WG for once actually tried to nerf her by placing her at T6 but many people didn't want their hardened Pizza touched and sadly the chance of actually balancing OP premiums was thrown out the window... Now with Tier 5 being the Tier with more CVs and the below average AA GC has... Probably not nearly as OP as she used to be although I must admit I completely forgot about her, so my bad there

See my edit above. You also conveniently ignored Musashi, literally a buffed, downtiered T10 (oh boo hoo, it has worse AA: it's guns are, from a PRACTICAL standpoint, better, and allows a team to have an extra T10 where a T9 should be).

Also, what the HELL do you expect them to do with the IJN and KM? The Japanese were easily the worst nautical engineers in the world of this era, and the Germans only slightly ahead. You can only polish turds so much. I mean the B65's are some of the *dumbest* designed ships I've ever seen; they would be lucky if they didn't crack in half turning at a speed greater than 12 knots and likely would flip over in a stiff breeze like the Vasa, and the Japanese *couldn't* make guns of that performance level. Nor could they account for the Free Surface effect, and such a large cruiser would run into some serious problems as its tanks emptied. After about halfway run time, they'd likely flip over from a propagating wave. The Japanese were the *WORST* nautical engineers in the world and the B65 is their magnum opus of incompetence. I've been at conventions where fellow Nautical engineers have LAUGHED whenever the name 'B65' is brought up (along with many other Japanese ships, with a cavalcade of 'what were they thinking?' following.

Edited by _RC1138
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Just because Steve is good it does not make Bobby bad.

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????

German cruisers are well armored then any other cruiser line...

German BBs suffers of power creep... No way WG will nerf the other BBs in the game.

Now, the new ships... That is up to debate... Under the current direction of 2020 so far, some ships have to be weak to be gun fodder for the power creep ships.

Its not going to change since the player base like this arrangement.

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On 2/21/2020 at 2:50 PM, _RC1138 said:

Derptiz, which is a straight upgrade over the tree ship (literally the definition of PTW),

Only if you're careless enough to let her be. Tirpitz sacrifices hydro to get her torpedoes, doesn't she? I know which I prefer to keep.

On 2/21/2020 at 2:50 PM, _RC1138 said:

Quote removed

-Ataeru

:cap_popcorn:

Threadlock inbound! @Burnsy, I suspect the OP's sidestep on profanity has become the least of this thread's problems.

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Just now, Navalpride33 said:

German BBs suffers of power creep... No way WG will nerf the other BBs in the game.

Am I the only one that remembers that they just got a MASSIVE buff to their accuracy that basically just makes them better versions of american BB's? They have better armour, better AA in some cases, sonar, secondaries, impossible to reliably hit citadels, and sure, less stealth, but it's a friggen BB, not a cruiser, and they can mount the accuracy mod at all tiers, not just 9 and 10 like the USN.

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On 2/21/2020 at 2:50 PM, _RC1138 said:

Derptiz, which is a straight upgrade over the tree ship (literally the definition of PTW), Scharnhorst, which is easily one of the most popular ships in the game and one of the strongest T7 BB's (and that's a CROWDED competition). Kii is the sleeper at T8 that is probably better than Derptiz (16" has no overmatch issues that the 15" do) but less played, Kaga is one of the most overpowered CV's in the game, despite all the futzing WGing did.

Is Tirpitz and upgrade over Bismarck? Yeah, so she was IRL. I do agree that if they both were decent ships Tirpitz should give up more than just hydro for the torps, so you are right there. 

Shiny horse is a good ship but have you played her lately? She is still fun but nowhere close to what she was years ago and now Tier 7s get uptired all the time to T9 so the nice spot T7s had in MM is gone.

Kii would be awesome if they changed one thing: Accuracy. Her guns are painful shotguns that make Tirpitz look like a professional sniper... Try her out please, her guns are not even close to Amagi levels, Amagi is just much much better.

Kaga: Yes, she is likely the second strongest CV after Enti but the difference in power is quite impressive. Don't get me wrong, Kaga is strong but the T6 planes in T10 matches are quite painful, if you are not careful and pre drop all the time all you will do is feed the enemy with planes. 

On 2/21/2020 at 2:50 PM, _RC1138 said:

Quote removed

-Ataeru

Uh... No? Not sure what do you understand for the word weharboo but it only means that you like what the Germans builded during WW2, nothing related to ideology. Many people admit that Tiger and Panther tanks were really good for their times obligatory Hans ze transmission broke, admit that all the jets like Me 163 or Me 262 were revolutionary and we all know how popular KMS Bismarck is still today. Does that mean all the people that admire what the scientist managed to do with extremely little resources and time are nazi supporters? No, not at all. Science and evolving technology is not tied to ideology at all. Hell... Every single person that admires Laika and all the scientist that put her on space are communist? No, not at all...

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1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

Am I the only one that remembers that they just got a MASSIVE buff to their accuracy that basically just makes them better versions of american BB's? They have better armour, better AA in some cases, sonar, secondaries, impossible to reliably hit citadels, and sure, less stealth, but it's a friggen BB, not a cruiser, and they can mount the accuracy mod at all tiers, not just 9 and 10 like the USN.

Even with all you just said... Which is correct, in some tiers... The other BBs have better main battery... You hear the complaints for the FDG and the GRober Kurferst..

IMO German BBs are nothing more then obese cruisers.

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20 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

Z39 is quality. Scharnhorst is fun. I like the Tirp 

Isn't T-61 pretty good too?

And IIRC, Shinonome is an upgrade over Fubuki.

ARP Kongo and Myoko also good ships....

Spee is decent, and very interesting to play.

Edited by Skpstr

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1 minute ago, XurMP said:

Shiny horse is a good ship but have you played her lately? She is still fun but nowhere close to what she was years ago and now Tier 7s get uptired all the time to T9 so the nice spot T7s had in MM is gone.

She is *still* the go to T7 BB. And as I said, at T7, that's quite a claim since it is just JAM PACKED with BB's (I think only T8 has more and just barely).

2 minutes ago, XurMP said:

Kii would be awesome if they changed one thing: Accuracy. Her guns are painful shotguns that make Tirpitz look like a professional sniper... Try her out please, her guns are not even close to Amagi levels, Amagi is just much much better. 

Kaga: Yes, she is likely the second strongest CV after Enti but the difference in power is quite impressive. Don't get me wrong, Kaga is strong but the T6 planes in T10 matches are quite painful, if you are not careful and pre drop all the time all you will do is feed the enemy with planes.  

So you rate things on a scale of Best>>> everything else is crap. Got it. I can *promise* you wargaming will never listen to a word you say because you are unpleaseable.

3 minutes ago, XurMP said:

Not sure what do you understand for the word weharboo but it only means that you like what the Germans builded during WW2, nothing related to ideology.

The two are *inescapably* linked. Just like, and understand I'm not just British, but English, liking Victorian Style... anything is likewise *inescapably* linked to British turn-of-the-century Imperialism. You cannot have one without the other. My favorite poem is 'If-' but I fully admit that it comes with some *nasty* issues given the author. You cannot have one without the other.

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13 minutes ago, wstugamd said:

Z39 is quality. Scharnhorst is fun. I like the Tirp 

They are fun and can do well in skilled hands, specially Shiny horse is very fun when facing same and lower tiers. 

Don't get me wrong, I also love those ships even though I don't own a Z39 (played her a few times in those press accounts from the rare "sink X player, get rewards" events and was fun as hell) but does that make them too good? Not really. Z39 has a ton of health but insanely poor DPM, Shiny cannot overmatch anything and will sink rather quickly under HE spam. Tirpitz is... Well a slightly better version of a [edited] ship... 

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29 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Derptiz, which is a straight upgrade over the tree ship (literally the definition of PTW

eh, i wouldnt say Tirpitz is a straight upgrade, its got next to no AA compared to Bismarck, and the 1v1 Ranked thing isnt a good example because people knew there'd be "Go-to" ships in that, it was known there'd be problems with that mode

and yet Tirpitz is at the top of my list of Premiums i want to own, which is why ive been saving up dubs i get in the game over the past few months

 

Edited by tcbaker777

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4 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Even with all you just said... Which is correct, in some tiers... The other BBs have better main battery... You hear the complaints for the FDG and the GRober Kurferst..

IMO German BBs are nothing more then obese cruisers.

Huh? They get 15" Guns earlier than other nations (T6 Bayern; vs. USN, MN, IJN, and even *Russian* all have 14" guns; only the RN with Queen Liz has 15" guns: an important note as that means that Bayern can semi-uniquely overmatch all the other BB's at her tier (and above) but not in return. Their premium T6, PEF, is at parity with 14" guns and unparalleled speed.

They get torpedoes, uniquely, at T7, on not just their tree but their premium as well.

At T8 the Bismarck has maybe 'lack' luster guns, although that was true when it came out, now, less so. It is important to note that while we tend to think of T8 as 16" guns, it's really *JUST* the USN, IJN, and Russians that get that; the rest, RN, French, Italian (premium at the moment), get 15" guns, so she's really just one of the crowed, not uniquely undergunned. And at T9 and 10 they buck the trend with some of the larger guns available. So I'm not sure what on earth you are talking about.

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3 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

eh, i wouldnt say Tirpitz is a straight upgrade, its got next to no AA compared to Bismarck

This is easily the dumbest excuse trotted out by contrarians in any context; 'Buh- buh- buh 'x-ship' has worse AA!'

In everything that matters to a Battleship in the way WoWs actually works, the Tirpitz is a straight upgrade over Bismarck, made so by the [edited] decision by Wargaming to give her the SAME secondary performance for NO reason (she *had* a melee weapon system, she didn't need *two*). Here performance enhancers are *directly* tied to her optimized role.

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20 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Also, what the HELL do you expect them to do with the IJN and KM? The Japanese were easily the worst nautical engineers in the world of this era, and the Germans only slightly ahead. You can only polish turds so much. I mean the B65's are some of the *dumbest* designed ships I've ever seen; they would be lucky if they didn't crack in half turning at a speed greater than 12 knots and likely would flip over in a stiff breeze like the Vasa, and the Japanese *couldn't* make guns of that performance level. Nor could they account for the Free Surface effect, and such a large cruiser would run into some serious problems as its tanks emptied. After about halfway run time, they'd likely flip over from a propagating wave. The Japanese were the *WORST* nautical engineers in the world and the B65 is their magnum opus of incompetence. I've been at conventions where fellow Nautical engineers have LAUGHED whenever the name 'B65' is brought up (along with many other Japanese ships, with a cavalcade of 'what were they thinking?' following.

That's cool and all but this is a game, and keeping a balance between the different factions is important. 

Although I think the IJN is in a pretty good place, and the KMS are fine too, except for the DDs. The biggest problem with KMS BBs are that they are brawlers in a campy-snipey meta

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2 minutes ago, PotatoMD said:

That's cool and all but this is a game, and keeping a balance between the different factions is important.  

Although I think the IJN is in a pretty good place, and the KMS are fine too, except for the DDs. The biggest problem with KMS BBs are that they are brawlers in a campy-snipey meta

So then think about it though: you are talking about just MAKING crapup to make them better: they ALREADY DO THAT, just for the Russians/Soviets, and how well does that blow over? You want them to start adding fever dream Nazi/IJN boats? We need ANOTHER set of [edited] impossible builds? And the KM's aren't even brawlers anymore. For one their Cruisers *were ALWAYS* snipers: they have the longest range typically, insane HE performance, and great arcs. And their BB's just were buffed to have the same accuracy as USN and IJN and British BB's, so there's no more excuses: they can snipe with the best of them.

Edited by _RC1138

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On 2/21/2020 at 2:50 PM, _RC1138 said:

Quote removed

-Ataeru

lol the delusion in one post and ends up calling him a "nazi", truly the forum community is the reason why WG keeps sh*tting up the playerbase

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1 minute ago, _RC1138 said:

So then think about it though: you are talking about just MAKING crapup to make them better: they ALREADY DO THAT, just for the Russians/Soviets, and how well does that blow over? You want them to start adding fever dream Nazi/IJN boats? We need ANOTHER set of [edited] impossible builds?

Well, no. 

I'm just saying they should buff/nerf ships we have to fit in their respective tiers

Adding new ships, even "fever dreams" are fine, as long as they are balanced *coughkremlincough*

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7 minutes ago, Verijero said:

lol the delusion in one post and ends up calling him a "nazi", truly the forum community is the reason why WG keeps sh*tting up the playerbase

What part is a delusion? The GC and KA are in fact banned from sale due to being overpowered, with the GC being so bad they actually TRIED to retier her only to stop due to MASSIVE overblown backlash from the whinier parts of the community. Derpitz IS in fact a straight upgrade over the Bismarck; don't trot out the 'muh AA' defense: it's [edited] and the difference is minor enough to not be worthy of mentioning. Scharnhorst is CONSISTENTLY the most played T7 Premium BB, by like a huge margin and THAT IS a serious thing since that is one of the heaviest tiers with BB's.

Not much delusion there, just things that hurt your preconceived notions.

Edited by _RC1138
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9 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

So I'm not sure what on earth you are talking about.

Are you ok big guy ???

The ships you mentioned fall under "Germans BBs are nothing more then obese cruisers"

The tier 9 and 10 German BBs I stated I guess you disagree with those to play them... They're fine against the other BBs in the tier... (They're going to disagree with you)...

Every German BB has mobility and a very good tactic to avoid torps...

 

Edited by Navalpride33

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