Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Quantumphysics333

Removing Rocket Planes on CV's

9 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

20
[STAFF]
[STAFF]
Members
69 posts
4,207 battles

I think that most people agree that carriers are imbalanced in one way or another (and this is coming from someone who plays CVs a little bit).

I also think that, for the most part, one of the bigger issues with them is CV-DD interaction, specifically the fact that DDs have no counterplay against CVs. Rocket planes (Attack Aircraft) are probably one the biggest offenders, mostly because of their mid-high damage and ease of use. While things like USN HE bombs and IJN torpedoes are still threats to DDs, Rocket Planes are definetely one of the worst to deal with. Being chunked for half of your HP is not "fun" or "engaging"

I propose one main change:

Replace rocket planes with a watered-down version of fighters (from pre-CV rework)

They will have a few abilities:

  1. They cannot directly attack surface ships in any way.
  2. Their "mode of attack" is heavily based off strafing from pre-8.0 fighters. Simillar to torpedo bombers, they will have a wide "rectangle" indicating their area of attack (But is will be in the air, more like a box). Over time, this "rectangle/box" will get smaller, decreasing the area covered by an attack run, but also increasing damage.
  3. The damage from this strafing (if a plane squadron is caught in the middle of it) would be roughly on par with damage done by fighters
  4. The squadrons will not have the fighter consumable (to decrease spotting in conjunction with speed), but a different consumable, maybe an enhnaced engine boost consumable (i.e. for 10 seconds instead of 4) could replace it
  5. Damage done to plane squadrons would count as damage done to ships (this is to appease CV players who would get angry at a loss in damage totals)

Benefits:

  • This removes one of the bigger threats to DDs (I'm aware that spotting is also a big issue, but IDK what to do about that)
  • This heavily encourages CV vs. CV gameplay, since a good CV player could directly attack enemy squadrons. This also makes the CV more heavily focus on avoding and defending against the enemy CVs fighter attacks
  • Hopefully wouldn't change power balance between CVs too much (but the RN CV "fighters" might need to be better than others, since attack aircraft are one of the main strengths of RN CVs)

Downsides (?);

  • Probably would decrease CV teamplay further (though maybe not)
  • A good CV player could completely negate an enemy CV (since they could aggresively use the fighters to completly counter their attacks), maybe counter this by making the aiming 
    "rectangle" smaller/unable to be moved after an attack has started

Suggestions Appreciated!:cap_hmm:

  • Cool 4
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
793
[SHOOT]
[SHOOT]
Beta Testers
3,755 posts
11,770 battles

Yes! Maybe we should also remove the targeting an lead indicators for torpedoes on all ships too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
426
[KSC]
Members
638 posts
9,588 battles

DD/CV Counterplay Tips"

1) In general, DD's should learn and respond to each nation's version of Rocket Plane.

a) US Rocket Planes: Tier 6 and 8 favor attacking broadside and do strong damage when able to.  Their damage is miserable when bow/aft on.  Tier 10 Tiny Tims hit hard... if they hit.  It's literally RNG, which is frustrating, but is generally weaker against DDs because the damage isn't dependable at all from any direction.

b) IJN Rocket Planes: These are Sniper planes.  They have to start their attack run for a good distance (3-4 km), and after the first few seconds, they lock in on a course and cannot turn.  Speed Jukes work wonderfully against these.  Also, using no AA conceal can allow you to sail underneath them before they can fire.

c) British Rocket Planes:  These are Shotgun planes.  British CVs are semi-specialized against DDs through maneuverability, shotgun reticle, and slow speeds preventing overfly.  When against a British CV, respond accordingly and play closer to friendly ships while smoke is on cooldown as these are designed to hurt you.

2) Smoke Cooldown use should be saved for taking caps/important areas, or for oh-crap moments when you're spotted in the middle of nowhere.  Use the smoke, then evacuate the area to friendly AA until your timer comes back up.  This is especially punishing to USN DDs because of the long cooldown, so try to play closer to your team and potentially give away smoke for their use as well as yours instead of looking for torp angles.

3) Friendly AA isn't very helpful at long-range.  There will be some flak helping, but the continuous damage is very low.  Screening your teammates at 3km to watch for torps and enemy DDs is still valuable and shouldn't be discounted.

Edited by Ahskance
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,605
[PQUOD]
[PQUOD]
Members
4,584 posts
15,711 battles
29 minutes ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

I think that most people agree that carriers are imbalanced in one way or another (and this is coming from someone who plays CVs a little bit).

I also think that, for the most part, one of the bigger issues with them is CV-DD interaction, specifically the fact that DDs have no counterplay against CVs. Rocket planes (Attack Aircraft) are probably one the biggest offenders, mostly because of their mid-high damage and ease of use. While things like USN HE bombs and IJN torpedoes are still threats to DDs, Rocket Planes are definetely one of the worst to deal with. Being chunked for half of your HP is not "fun" or "engaging"

I propose one main change:

Replace rocket planes with a watered-down version of fighters (from pre-CV rework)

They will have a few abilities:

  1. They cannot directly attack surface ships in any way.
  2. Their "mode of attack" is heavily based off strafing from pre-8.0 fighters. Simillar to torpedo bombers, they will have a wide "rectangle" indicating their area of attack (But is will be in the air, more like a box). Over time, this "rectangle/box" will get smaller, decreasing the area covered by an attack run, but also increasing damage.
  3. The damage from this strafing (if a plane squadron is caught in the middle of it) would be roughly on par with damage done by fighters
  4. The squadrons will not have the fighter consumable (to decrease spotting in conjunction with speed), but a different consumable, maybe an enhnaced engine boost consumable (i.e. for 10 seconds instead of 4) could replace it
  5. Damage done to plane squadrons would count as damage done to ships (this is to appease CV players who would get angry at a loss in damage totals)

Benefits:

  • This removes one of the bigger threats to DDs (I'm aware that spotting is also a big issue, but IDK what to do about that)
  • This heavily encourages CV vs. CV gameplay, since a good CV player could directly attack enemy squadrons. This also makes the CV more heavily focus on avoding and defending against the enemy CVs fighter attacks
  • Hopefully wouldn't change power balance between CVs too much (but the RN CV "fighters" might need to be better than others, since attack aircraft are one of the main strengths of RN CVs)

Downsides (?);

  • Probably would decrease CV teamplay further (though maybe not)
  • A good CV player could completely negate an enemy CV (since they could aggresively use the fighters to completly counter their attacks), maybe counter this by making the aiming 
    "rectangle" smaller/unable to be moved after an attack has started

Suggestions Appreciated!:cap_hmm:

no

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
426
[KSC]
Members
638 posts
9,588 battles
46 minutes ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

Suggestions Appreciated!:cap_hmm:

One thing to remember is the current CV iteration has the player flying one type of plane at a time.  So, this anti-air Fighter concept means that you, the CV player, will just be flying around hoping to do nothing other than shoot down enemy planes.  What does this do?  It makes a 12 vs 12 matchup into an 11 vs 11, because both CVs aren't doing anything.  One CV is shooting planes, and the other CV is getting shot down.

When trying to design a class for a player, you have to base the concept on DOING THINGS, not NEGATING THINGS.  When the player has moves they can make the create results that help, the player can take accomplishment from that and team can respect their effort.  When the player can only offer reactionary moves like a goalie stopping a score from getting through... while it's rewarding to prevent the score, more players would rather being the one trying to score the goal in the first place.

With the above in mind, CV players would only use Torpedo Bombers and Dive Bombers and just ignore the Fighters, despite the angry crying from the teammates to play goalie instead of striker.

Edited by Ahskance
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,846
[GWG]
[GWG]
Supertester
26,431 posts
14,165 battles
1 hour ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

Suggestions Appreciated!:cap_hmm:

While dive bombers are also viable for attacking DD's what do CV's with AP dive bombers do when they need to attack a DD?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
886
[HC]
Beta Testers
3,048 posts
12,728 battles
2 hours ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

I think that most people agree that carriers are imbalanced in one way or another (and this is coming from someone who plays CVs a little bit).

I also think that, for the most part, one of the bigger issues with them is CV-DD interaction, specifically the fact that DDs have no counterplay against CVs. Rocket planes (Attack Aircraft) are probably one the biggest offenders, mostly because of their mid-high damage and ease of use. While things like USN HE bombs and IJN torpedoes are still threats to DDs, Rocket Planes are definetely one of the worst to deal with. Being chunked for half of your HP is not "fun" or "engaging"

I propose one main change:

Replace rocket planes with a watered-down version of fighters (from pre-CV rework)

They will have a few abilities:

  1. They cannot directly attack surface ships in any way.
  2. Their "mode of attack" is heavily based off strafing from pre-8.0 fighters. Simillar to torpedo bombers, they will have a wide "rectangle" indicating their area of attack (But is will be in the air, more like a box). Over time, this "rectangle/box" will get smaller, decreasing the area covered by an attack run, but also increasing damage.
  3. The damage from this strafing (if a plane squadron is caught in the middle of it) would be roughly on par with damage done by fighters
  4. The squadrons will not have the fighter consumable (to decrease spotting in conjunction with speed), but a different consumable, maybe an enhnaced engine boost consumable (i.e. for 10 seconds instead of 4) could replace it
  5. Damage done to plane squadrons would count as damage done to ships (this is to appease CV players who would get angry at a loss in damage totals)

Benefits:

  • This removes one of the bigger threats to DDs (I'm aware that spotting is also a big issue, but IDK what to do about that)
  • This heavily encourages CV vs. CV gameplay, since a good CV player could directly attack enemy squadrons. This also makes the CV more heavily focus on avoding and defending against the enemy CVs fighter attacks
  • Hopefully wouldn't change power balance between CVs too much (but the RN CV "fighters" might need to be better than others, since attack aircraft are one of the main strengths of RN CVs)

Downsides (?);

  • Probably would decrease CV teamplay further (though maybe not)
  • A good CV player could completely negate an enemy CV (since they could aggresively use the fighters to completly counter their attacks), maybe counter this by making the aiming 
    "rectangle" smaller/unable to be moved after an attack has started

Suggestions Appreciated!:cap_hmm:

WG decided that having one CV completely negate the other was a bad idea on two occasions, once when the USN CV's lost their Air Superiority load outs, and again with the rework.  I'm pretty sure that having one CV negate the other then have the run of the map is still a bad idea and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
121
[BR_S]
Members
92 posts
5,312 battles

As most of my ship lines are leaving the hell of multi-CV T3/4 to enjoy the occasional raid in higher tier, I wish everyone well and hope you can stay with the game til you too leave the merde pit of T3/4... From the games I have played if you put 1 CV in a game it doesn't seem out of balance at all. That one CV  can still have an impact without over powering and its fun for everyone playing. While I kinda laugh at the rather ridonkulous biplanes with rockets... it is completely bearable and not OP that I can tell with only 1 CV in the game. 

Put 2 or 3 in a game and that game is an absolute waste of time for all involved... and brings the most severe salt out for the development team. 

So I guess my suggestion/feedback is that the problem to solve is how to keep CV players from having to wait prohibitively long for a game while not crapping on every other player by dumping a bunch of them in, or even having 2 consistently per side. Other than that issue, and that they don't burn I can't find a big issue. What I used to think were big issues don't feel that way now that I have a little more experience. 

I haven't been targeted enough in the mid tier games (5-8) I am in to have an opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×