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Rickhavoc

Carrier Lexington dissatisfaction

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I find myself bitterly disappointed by the carrier Lexington and it's aircraft. First, the ship itself. One of the reasons I wanted to grind my way up to the Lexington was that I thought the game designers would model it with the 8 inch guns it was launched with, to give it a better chance against enemy surface ships, which constitute the primary threat. I guess they didn't want a carrier that could sink an enemy with it's guns, the way they have crippled carriers in favor of surface ships! Second, the aircraft. They have made the ship's AA guns FAR too effective! My squadrons are being destroyed before I can reach attack position FAR too often! This game is supposed to be enjoyable for ALL players, not just those who are conning surface ships! I can't enjoy the game if my aircraft are crippled!

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11 minutes ago, Rickhavoc said:

I find myself bitterly disappointed by the carrier Lexington and it's aircraft. First, the ship itself. One of the reasons I wanted to grind my way up to the Lexington was that I thought the game designers would model it with the 8 inch guns it was launched with, to give it a better chance against enemy surface ships, which constitute the primary threat. I guess they didn't want a carrier that could sink an enemy with it's guns, the way they have crippled carriers in favor of surface ships! Second, the aircraft. They have made the ship's AA guns FAR too effective! My squadrons are being destroyed before I can reach attack position FAR too often! This game is supposed to be enjoyable for ALL players, not just those who are conning surface ships! I can't enjoy the game if my aircraft are crippled!

Wow, where to start with this one....

First of all, if you didn't do your homework before researching a ship, that is your own fault.  Considering lack of armor, however, do you really expect to be able to toe-to-toe with surface ships who can vastly outgun you?

Secondly, if playing carriers up to T8 hasn't taught you anything by now, you have to be careful with your early game ship targeting, especially when bottom-tiered.  Any carrier plays much differently when top tier than it does when bottom tier.

Mid to late game is where CVs really start to be effective, once health pools and AA-defenses have been whittled down a bit.  If you don't have a good grasp on your own ship as well as your opponents, you're not going to excel very well in a CV.

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You should quit... playing CVs.... and join the rest of the surface ships.

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As CV players do not directly control their onboard artillery, it is generally considered weak and unreliable.  The exception to this is the Graf Zeppelin, although that is a premium ship with it's own quirky style of play.

As for AA issues, you should first make sure your Commander has both the Survivability Expert and Aircraft Armor talents.  Both of those are quite required.  Secondly, know that you should not attack targets in groups of three or more.  Two ships in near proximity will hurt you, but the losses are going to be your typical fare.  Solo targets are the most forgiving in terms of AA.

Flak can be mitigated by turning in a slow circle on the way from the outer AA ranges to the mid-ranges (where flak stops).  Most flak appears ahead of your planes, so the consistent turning should help you in penetrating the outer layers.

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5 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

Good one, almost had me  lol

iuZWG0OBHH.jpg

OP has 4 total posts.  Doubtful.

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@Rickhavoc, as @Ace_04 & @Ahskance have mentioned, you should've checked how each CV works, possibly watch videos to see how their play-styles are? I don't think I have much liberty saying this, though with my experience playing CVs are more on being a supportive role compared to flying in right away, I recommend studying the lineups of your team & the enemy since as @Ace_04 stated, that depending how MM paired you up in that game, you'll need to have a standard plan, if up-tiered, be supportive, spot, don't attack unless if enemy ship is alone, & if they're alone & as well a Minotaur, Des Moines, or any AA Cruiser/Battleship, practice catapulting, I know it's a "cheap" tactic, though it helps you break through AA & saving planes for another squadron. From what you've stated on how your squadron gets wiped out before being able to attack, I reckon you've been going full throttle not maneuvering? If so, then I recommend that you keep the engine boost, "juice," so you can play around with the throttle by speeding up, slowing down, & maneuvering. It won't guarantee that they'll push through, though it gives you a higher chance of getting closer to enemy ships in a way to get an attack off. 

That's what I recommend, sorry if I wasn't any help, though I hope this doesn't dishearten you on playing CVs.

 

-Amiral_Marie (U571)

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4 hours ago, Rickhavoc said:

I guess they didn't want a carrier that could sink an enemy with it's guns

The GZ can do that very thing if set up for 2ndaries

4 hours ago, Rickhavoc said:

They have made the ship's AA guns FAR too effective

After WoW's moved heaven and earth replacing the RTS version of CV's. Everybody was on for a rollercoaster ride as some issues were quickly discovered. "The Flying Shima" was the main one. After that it was a whipsaw event trying to balance AA -vs- CV aircraft. Too strong, then too weak, then individual ships and tiers were tweaked. To this day AA is a totally different animal than it was immediately after 8.0 dropped. You have to learn what ships are easier to approach than others. Even the AA monster ships can be approached after their AA modules have been damaged. Avoid approaching mass ship formations, their AA bubbles overlap and will shred your planes quick. Some ships in the upper tiers have the ability to completely flame every single plane in a squadron with one thunderclap of AA. As @Ace_04 and @Amiral_Marie both stated. Choose your targets wisely and look for loners. Eliminating the DD threat early, spotting, and providing fighter coverage especially for your fwd DD's should be your primary goal at the start of the match. As the match progresses it shifts to eliminating crippled low health ships and loaners hugging islands that your ships can't get guns and torpedos on. Eliminating radar cruisers will help your DD's tremendously if your BB's and CA's can't get them due to positioning. Remember you wield the fastest weapon delivery system in the game.

Finally as always, WATCH THE MINI MAP! Don't get caught off guard by a collapsing or exposed flank. Be wary of DD's sneaking to the back for the trophy kill. Don't fly into enemy fighter drops unless it is to secure a kill and the trade off is in your favor.

Good luck sailor

Ahab

Edited by Capt_Ahab1776
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First, to Ace_04 and Capt_Ahab1776. In the American tech tree, they eliminated the tiers between 5 and 8 when they replaced the RTS version of CVs, so I went directly from the Ranger to the Lexington, with no chance to "play my way up". As far as researching the ship goes, what alternatives did I have? Again, those were eliminated. I also don't have lots of money to spend on premium ships. I don't expect too much historical accuracy from WoW, they had to make too many compromises with that in order to produce an enjoyable PvP game, but historically, the AA is too accurate. There is another thing about both the AA fire and the machine gun fire from enemy fighters that is both historically AND visually inaccurate. It tracks in absolutely straight lines, like laser beams. I've seen plenty of combat film footage, as well as gun camera footage, so I know they don't have it right. Since the limitations of the game prevent us from flying more than one squadron at the same time, so we can't fly the coordinated airstrikes the tactical doctrine of every navy in WWII called for, AA should be easier to penetrate, and our weapons should do more damage to compensate.  

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CVs are in a pretty good place at this point, in that most surface ships want us a bit weaker and most of the CVs want us a bit stronger. If they make it so AA is less and the damage per strike is more the average CV player will do a bit better. However, attacks on solo ships would become devastating. Additionally, more skilled CVs would be monsters so changes can't really be made. Entering a new tier of CV, especially tier 8 requires a lot of experience or study on which ships to avoid versus which to hit. As you get some more experience in the Lexington I'm sure you'll see better results.  

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I have all of the CV's, all tech tree and all premiums.   I will say although some seem a little stronger than others the biggest deciding factor on how well my match goes is the ship make up and how both my teammates and the enemy ships play and position themselves.   I have had games in my best premium ships up against Lexington and got absolutely shut down by the surface ships positioning while the enemy CV had a field day on my team as they all spread out, sat still or sailed in straight lines.

Truth of the matter is for a CV to be effective the enemy has to make mistakes.   The only people crying that there is no counter to them are people who do not understand and do not want to understand them.

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Tier-8 CV's struggle against Tier-9 and Tier-10 AA bubbles.
When those bubbles are overlapped by two or more ships, the struggle increases in difficulty.

You've been given plenty of good advice already.

When planes and CV are not fully upgraded (with relevant Captain's Skills and module research and plane upgrades), the CV/planes haven't reached full potential and are gonna get shredded more easily.

So?  What to do?
Temporarily live with spotting and using torpedoes from the edge of the torpedo travel range.
Attack targets of opportunity?  Sure.
But be patient while you're earning the XP and credits needed for ship/plane/commander improvements.

As CV play goes, Tier-8 can be a brutal environment.  
It is okay to take breaks from it. 
Play in Tier-6 or even Tier-4 to practice specific techniques that will improve your effectiveness in higher tiers.
Then make your "comeback", stronger than ever.  :-)

Welcome to the forums @Rickhavoc.
Hope to see you on the virtual seas.  :-)

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@Kaigun_Chusa shared a video in another forum topic.
I enjoyed it.  It is also educational for advanced CV play.  So I'm sharing it here.  :-)
 

 

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On 2/18/2020 at 10:31 AM, Ace_04 said:

Wow, where to start with this one....

First of all, if you didn't do your homework before researching a ship, that is your own fault.  Considering lack of armor, however, do you really expect to be able to toe-to-toe with surface ships who can vastly outgun you?

Secondly, if playing carriers up to T8 hasn't taught you anything by now, you have to be careful with your early game ship targeting, especially when bottom-tiered.  Any carrier plays much differently when top tier than it does when bottom tier.

Mid to late game is where CVs really start to be effective, once health pools and AA-defenses have been whittled down a bit.  If you don't have a good grasp on your own ship as well as your opponents, you're not going to excel very well in a CV.

Ace has pretty much gotten it all. I got the Lexington today and played at least 10 games in it, 7 of which I had tier 10s in my battle. I'll admit, it's a challenge as even if you avoid flak the continuous AA damage whittles your HP down. I think that although the ship itself has bad armor and is slow, the aircraft are quite good especially if you have Aircraft Armor and Survivabilty Expert. The HVAR Corsairs can blap DDs for half their HP and I've scored 10k damage in one salvo on cruisers with them. The torpedo bombers are a pretty giant leap up from the Ranger torpedo bombers, which I disliked for slow speed, bad maneuverability and slow torps. The Lexington torpedo bombers (upgraded or no) have faster torps and the heal consumable, very useful if ur charging against tier 10 AA. The dive bombers are also healthy; getting 6 penetrations is immensely satisfying, although even 1 penetration can tell a DD to turn away and leave you alone. 

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Especially with higher tier games, I tend to play a lot more conservatively, only ramping up mid to late game, as others have already said. At the beginning of the match, I ditch a squadron for use later (fire the rockets as soon as you can after takeoff to save the planes) and scout around before choosing a target; the AA will all be highly concentrated, so I would go for a paper cruiser, trading good damage for a lost squadron; you're probably gonna lose those planes anyway, might as well do 10k damage while you're at it. I use the HVAR attack aircraft over and over again until i run out of them; I like them the most because you can use them against virtually anything with good results (just aim for superstructure with battleships). Then i move on to the dive bombers, also ditching a squad as soon as I can. If you're going against 1 ship who's and you can take advantage of islands,  wouldn't ditch a squadron. I only ditch if I'm flying into heavy AA. You want to wait as long as possible with the dive bombers so the reticle shrinks down the most. Haven't used the torpedo bombers all that often, and haven't upgraded them. They are definetly better than Ranger torpedo bombers, and are usable for sure. 

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CVs right now, are very well balanced, and gameplay wise they are good. Lexington in my opinion is one of the best aircraft carriers in the game, it's so good that I'm not even grinding up to Midway right now.

Yeah you will struggle with a full uptier, however it really isn't that bad. Even tier X ships you can hit if they are alone, and you know how to dodge flak bursts. When fully uptiered, focus more on scouting so friendly ships can open up on scouted ships.

Lexington is a really good carrier, you just got to know how to use her. CVs take time to learn too, I'd recommend going back to the Ranger to practice, or just go into a bunch of co op games and training rooms to practice your aim.

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