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murder_0ne

Bought Dunkerque first 6 of 7 games are Tier 8. What's the point?

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I bought a Dunkerque since I really enjoyed playing the Richelieu and Jean Bart. I thought it would be a great change of pace to play some low tier games without all the radar and sniping and all the other junk that goes with Tier 8/9/10. Super disappointed. Out of the first 7 games I played six of them were Tier 8 and I was always the only Tier 6 BB in the game.

The Dunkerque doesn't stand a chance going up against a Bismark and Vladivostok. The MM is so horrible that the ship is just about useless as I have a hard time fulfilling the battleship role of leading the charge and taking the hits for my team. Not to mention the double Tier 8 CVs that love to torp the single Tier 6 BB in the game.

I have plenty of Tier 8/9 ships. I hate the high tier meta and much prefer 5/6/7 game play but even with a Tier 6 ship I'm stuck with Tier 8 games. WoWs MM is making the game miserable to play and I'm sure is driving players off. Why won't WG fix it?

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If I remember correctly the new MM takes at least 20 battles to get calibrated for a specific ship, then you are guaranteed to be bottom tier in 40% of battles max after that. You're probably still in that calibration period, it is tough for now but it will get better.

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9 minutes ago, Call_of_the_Mastodon said:

If I remember correctly the new MM takes at least 20 battles to get calibrated for a specific ship, then you are guaranteed to be bottom tier in 40% of battles max after that. You're probably still in that calibration period, it is tough for now but it will get better.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. I'll play 20 and get back to you.

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8 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

I bought a Dunkerque since I really enjoyed playing the Richelieu and Jean Bart. I thought it would be a great change of pace to play some low tier games without all the radar and sniping and all the other junk that goes with Tier 8/9/10. Super disappointed. Out of the first 7 games I played six of them were Tier 8 and I was always the only Tier 6 BB in the game.

The Dunkerque doesn't stand a chance going up against a Bismark and Vladivostok. The MM is so horrible that the ship is just about useless as I have a hard time fulfilling the battleship role of leading the charge and taking the hits for my team. Not to mention the double Tier 8 CVs that love to torp the single Tier 6 BB in the game.

I have plenty of Tier 8/9 ships. I hate the high tier meta and much prefer 5/6/7 game play but even with a Tier 6 ship I'm stuck with Tier 8 games. WoWs MM is making the game miserable to play and I'm sure is driving players off. Why won't WG fix it?

You shouldn't be disappointed in your purchase.  Sure being bottom tier for so often is frustrating but I feel it teaches you to look at your play more.  "What can I do in this match to get the most out of my ship."  It's all about your target selection and your position.  Don't be the first thing the red team sees.  

Focus on survivng but not so much that it takes your guns out of the battle.  

You are, from what I can gather, a still improving player as your damage etc is on an upward curve.  Things will improve over time.

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11 minutes ago, Call_of_the_Mastodon said:

If I remember correctly the new MM takes at least 20 battles to get calibrated for a specific ship, then you are guaranteed to be bottom tier in 40% of battles max after that. You're probably still in that calibration period, it is tough for now but it will get better.

From what I recall, its a specific TIER, not a specific ship.

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16 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

I bought a Dunkerque since I really enjoyed playing the Richelieu and Jean Bart. I thought it would be a great change of pace to play some low tier games without all the radar and sniping and all the other junk that goes with Tier 8/9/10. Super disappointed. Out of the first 7 games I played six of them were Tier 8 and I was always the only Tier 6 BB in the game.

The Dunkerque doesn't stand a chance going up against a Bismark and Vladivostok. The MM is so horrible that the ship is just about useless as I have a hard time fulfilling the battleship role of leading the charge and taking the hits for my team. Not to mention the double Tier 8 CVs that love to torp the single Tier 6 BB in the game.

I have plenty of Tier 8/9 ships. I hate the high tier meta and much prefer 5/6/7 game play but even with a Tier 6 ship I'm stuck with Tier 8 games. WoWs MM is making the game miserable to play and I'm sure is driving players off. Why won't WG fix it?

IMO, you misunderstand the role of a BB.  When you're bottom tier, it's your job to SUPPORT the top tier ships.  That doesn't mean hide way back, but it also doesn't mean to act like a top tier BB either.

The only time when hate being a bottom tier BB in a tier 8 battle is when I'm in a slow USN BB.  And it's not because I feel like I lack the firepower.  It's that slow BBs are at a significant disadvantage when it comes to strategic positioning, compared to faster, higher tier BBs.  So, this puts a premium on understanding strategic positioning when you're in that sort of slow BB in battles with faster BBs.  It's generally best to find a relative central position on the map so that you don't have to waste so much time trying to move from one side to the other.  Plus, a good central position allows you to cover more of the map.

Now, with a Dunkerque, you do have good speed, so you can use that speed strategically to support flanks, etc. because your speed allows you to cover more ground (well, ocean).

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7 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

From what I recall, its a specific TIER, not a specific ship.

You are correct, sir.

 

9 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that. I'll play 20 and get back to you.

It changed in Update 0.8.7

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/game-updates/update-087-french-destroyers-part-2/#game-mechanics

 

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7 minutes ago, Hatsuzuki_DD said:

You shouldn't be disappointed in your purchase.  Sure being bottom tier for so often is frustrating but I feel it teaches you to look at your play more.  "What can I do in this match to get the most out of my ship."  It's all about your target selection and your position.  Don't be the first thing the red team sees.  

Focus on survivng but not so much that it takes your guns out of the battle.  

You are, from what I can gather, a still improving player as your damage etc is on an upward curve.  Things will improve over time.

Here's a perfect example. I do well, regardless of the situation. But I could do much better if I weren't bottom tier and would have more impact if I could go face to face with the top tier ships. And don't be the first thing the red team sees? Are you *aware* of the Dunkerque's concealment? Look it up. Compare it to the maximum gun range and against other Tier 7/8 ships in the game. Go ahead, I'll wait.

So many players are quick with the "it's not the ship, it's you" argument. That's garbage. It's not me or the ship. It's the MM.

shot-20.02.17_20.33.26-0492.jpg

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2 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

Here's a perfect example. I do well, regardless of the situation. But I could do much better if I weren't bottom tier and would have more impact if I could go face to face with the top tier ships. And don't be the first thing the red team sees? Are you *aware* of the Dunkerque's concealment? Look it up. Compare it to the maximum gun range and against other Tier 7/8 ships in the game. Go ahead, I'll wait.

So many players are quick with the "it's not the ship, it's you" argument. That's garbage. It's not me or the ship. It's the MM.

 

WG wants a two-tier spread to create fodder for top tier ships. This shortens games and gets ships back in the queue faster. The devs don't care about the game play experience, but they are obsessed with the queue time. T6s are used to fill T8 games because there aren't enough T9 ships played to match the needs to T10, which means T8 gets uptiered and then T6 gets uptiered in a cascade. They need to switch to a one-tier spread. 

That said, once you do your 20 game penance, you will be uptiered a little less and get more games that have a one tier spread. Those are very nice. 

Right now the best tier is 9. T6 is still uptiered too much, and it is flooded with Sky Cancer, especially 4 CV crapfests, in which T6s are just food. Really sucks, but like I said, the devs could care less. 



 

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13 minutes ago, Crucis said:

IMO, you misunderstand the role of a BB.  When you're bottom tier, it's your job to SUPPORT the top tier ships.  That doesn't mean hide way back, but it also doesn't mean to act like a top tier BB either.

The only time when hate being a bottom tier BB in a tier 8 battle is when I'm in a slow USN BB.  And it's not because I feel like I lack the firepower.  It's that slow BBs are at a significant disadvantage when it comes to strategic positioning, compared to faster, higher tier BBs.  So, this puts a premium on understanding strategic positioning when you're in that sort of slow BB in battles with faster BBs.  It's generally best to find a relative central position on the map so that you don't have to waste so much time trying to move from one side to the other.  Plus, a good central position allows you to cover more of the map.

Now, with a Dunkerque, you do have good speed, so you can use that speed strategically to support flanks, etc. because your speed allows you to cover more ground (well, ocean).

Again, you're yet another player that misunderstands the situation. You're assuming that the top tier BBs are worthwhile. They're not. I'm just a casual player and don't have great stats but the majority of the players on my teams are much worse than I am so I continually have to be at the tip of the spear and push in when nobody else will.

This isn't a clan battle. This is random. Nobody cooperates. There's nothing wrong with my understanding, my tactics or my technique. There's just not much you can do when all your top tier BBs are dead in the first four minutes of the game and it's up to a Tier 6 BB to take on the remaining Tier 8 enemy BBs. And so they slaughter my team and we lose.

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5 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

WG wants a two-tier spread to create fodder for top tier ships. This shortens games and gets ships back in the queue faster. The devs don't care about the game play experience, but they are obsessed with the queue time. T6s are used to fill T8 games because there aren't enough T9 ships played to match the needs to T10, which means T8 gets uptiered and then T6 gets uptiered in a cascade. They need to switch to a one-tier spread. 

That said, once you do your 20 game penance, you will be uptiered a little less and get more games that have a one tier spread. Those are very nice. 

Right now the best tier is 9. T6 is still uptiered too much, and it is flooded with Sky Cancer, especially 4 CV crapfests, in which T6s are just food. Really sucks, but like I said, the devs could care less. 



 

This answer actually makes sense. Vs. everyone else telling me how much I don't know how to play/bad player/still improving etc. And indeed I had a few 4 CV garbage matches. It's horrible.

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As a Dunkerque/Arizona owner, I feel like this is the case too. However, in T6 you can farm operations. Dunkerque is one of the best ships for farming operations.

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9 minutes ago, murder_0ne said:

This answer actually makes sense. Vs. everyone else telling me how much I don't know how to play/bad player/still improving etc. And indeed I had a few 4 CV garbage matches. It's horrible.

Tai's answer is his usual conspiratorial silliness.  WG has never said any such thing about creating cannon fodder to speed up battles.

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Please note though - just because you are at the top of the leaderboard, does not always mean that you were the best player on the team.  There are many ways to get to the top of the leaderboard for XP, especially in losses, that hurt the team more than help.  Damage farming in the back, killing the wrong targets, not playing the caps (going for damage instead) are all ways to get more XP while hurting your team.  If you are one of the last ships remaining on the losing team (which also doesn't always mean you were better than others), this is even easier as the winning team often just comes at you with reckless abandon, trying to get the kill.

You have to play differently, no doubt, when bottom tiered.  But, as is implied above, except for T10, WG has to fill these games and their preference is to do so as fast as possible (they have stated this on multiple occasions - no "conspiracy theory" needed).  Tier spreads make that happen.  That said, the recent changes have made for far more T10 only games, and other tiers are benefitting.  Most of the time, its simple confirmation bias that tells you that you have been in a lot of bottom tier games - when the reality is, you probably haven't.

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1 hour ago, Call_of_the_Mastodon said:

If I remember correctly the new MM takes at least 20 battles to get calibrated for a specific ship, then you are guaranteed to be bottom tier in 40% of battles max after that. You're probably still in that calibration period, it is tough for now but it will get better.

Not true. This is a myth. Only works when there are a lot of players loading into battle which is rare these days. I track my battles, for instance I have over 200 battles in Wichita, am bottom tier 84% of the time as of last night. Boise over 300, 77% bottom tier. And the rest of the games when I'm not I am usually middle tier. Being top tier is a very rare event. I am beginning to think a lot log on to wow that never or rarely go into battle. Co op is becoming a ghost town, last night I had a battle there where I was the only non bot in it. This was at 11pm EST, when you would think some would be playing. About the only time I ever get top tier is Saturday afternoons, and sometimes not even then.

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42 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Tai's answer is his usual conspiratorial silliness.  WG has never said any such thing about creating cannon fodder to speed up battles.

It doesn't need to. It's obvious. 

And they have said they want fast battles, and that they are concerned about queue times, which as I recall they say are an important factor in players leaving.

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1 hour ago, murder_0ne said:

I bought a Dunkerque since I really enjoyed playing the Richelieu and Jean Bart. I thought it would be a great change of pace to play some low tier games without all the radar and sniping and all the other junk that goes with Tier 8/9/10. Super disappointed. Out of the first 7 games I played six of them were Tier 8 and I was always the only Tier 6 BB in the game.

The Dunkerque doesn't stand a chance going up against a Bismark and Vladivostok. The MM is so horrible that the ship is just about useless as I have a hard time fulfilling the battleship role of leading the charge and taking the hits for my team. Not to mention the double Tier 8 CVs that love to torp the single Tier 6 BB in the game.

I have plenty of Tier 8/9 ships. I hate the high tier meta and much prefer 5/6/7 game play but even with a Tier 6 ship I'm stuck with Tier 8 games. WoWs MM is making the game miserable to play and I'm sure is driving players off. Why won't WG fix it?

Dunq is a VERY fun ship.
 

  • Keep you nose forward always
  • Stay by an island to protect you side
  • Avoid CV because you AA weak .. use you speed to get going if a CV is coming to you
  • If a BB want to make mistake of charge you...even a tier 8 BB... speed on to him flank and plop those shot right under him big fat turret for super 50k plus damage
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Dunkerque isn't the worst pick as far as T6 BB are concerned.

 

Vs T8 you can afford to HE spam, after all your gun are fairly small and the speed makes her one of the best BB to pick when uptiered (Warspite suffer from that quite a lot). Play your BB as a support ship, a bit like how you would play cruisers and it should work fine.

 

Her accuracy isn't the best but with her reload and if you have AR (which you should anyway) that's fine

 

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Reminds me of the first time I played Vladivostok—stock hull and all—and then found myself placed in a Tier X match with two CVs and an Ohio (still on ST at that time) on the other side.

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9 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

I bought a Dunkerque since I really enjoyed playing the Richelieu and Jean Bart. I thought it would be a great change of pace to play some low tier games without all the radar and sniping and all the other junk that goes with Tier 8/9/10. Super disappointed. Out of the first 7 games I played six of them were Tier 8 and I was always the only Tier 6 BB in the game.

The Dunkerque doesn't stand a chance going up against a Bismark and Vladivostok. The MM is so horrible that the ship is just about useless as I have a hard time fulfilling the battleship role of leading the charge and taking the hits for my team. Not to mention the double Tier 8 CVs that love to torp the single Tier 6 BB in the game.

I have plenty of Tier 8/9 ships. I hate the high tier meta and much prefer 5/6/7 game play but even with a Tier 6 ship I'm stuck with Tier 8 games. WoWs MM is making the game miserable to play and I'm sure is driving players off. Why won't WG fix it?

Interesting. Others have already pointed out the MM changes that should return some balance to your experience. 

Still, it reminds me of my own experience in the Dunkerque - literally 100 per cent of battles has faced at least one carrier on average. And this was pre-rework, where there were far fewer carriers that were far more deadly than the post rework ones. And the Dunk had crappy AA even then...

Otherwise, an OK ship!

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10 hours ago, murder_0ne said:

I bought a Dunkerque since I really enjoyed playing the Richelieu and Jean Bart. I thought it would be a great change of pace to play some low tier games without all the radar and sniping and all the other junk that goes with Tier 8/9/10. Super disappointed. Out of the first 7 games I played six of them were Tier 8 and I was always the only Tier 6 BB in the game.

The Dunkerque doesn't stand a chance going up against a Bismark and Vladivostok. The MM is so horrible that the ship is just about useless as I have a hard time fulfilling the battleship role of leading the charge and taking the hits for my team. Not to mention the double Tier 8 CVs that love to torp the single Tier 6 BB in the game.

I have plenty of Tier 8/9 ships. I hate the high tier meta and much prefer 5/6/7 game play but even with a Tier 6 ship I'm stuck with Tier 8 games. WoWs MM is making the game miserable to play and I'm sure is driving players off. Why won't WG fix it?

 Its not a MM issue, you were in a +/-2MM match... The problem, is power creep...

Power creep will only get worse and the current MM rules, can't accommodate OP/over capable gun ships.

High tiers is like entering the "twilight zone." While mid tiers is what WOWS should be, proportionate.

Since you like the Riche and the JB... I recommend to stay at high tiers... Those ships and high tiers in general, suffer greatly of disproportional in game experiences and mechanics.

You can really tell the difference between the two tier brackets, that is the disheartening part. The game has changed A LOT for the worst since 2017, especially at high tiers.

Edited by Navalpride33
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Dunk was the first French Premium if I am not mistaken.

LWM did a wonderful review on her, where she rated it a 'Mehbote'

 

 

She's a fun bote, but she is not going to carry a losing team. That relies on the Captain playing the ship to the best of their abilities.

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Dunkerque is a battlecruiser, not a battleship. She was built to run down and destroy Graf Spee-class armoured cruisers. The Kongo and her ARP near-sisters are similar. When you are bottom tier, this makes a subtle but important difference in the sort of opposition you are able to face and the manner in which you go about confronting it. 

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