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McDouble_McTrouble81

Moskva... in general

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I'm not here to bash the ship, i'm here just to voice what I see.  I love this ship, I've had some good battles in it... but most of the time I absolutely hate playing this ship.  No matter where I position her, I always feel vulnerable to everything.  Albeit, its prob down to my playstyle, but idk.  I enjoyed the D. Donskoi at tier IX and the Chapiav at tier VIII... I had the most fun playing this game in both of those ships rather than in Moskva.  She isn't fun to play when you can't get support out of your teammates, and she isn't fun when you do get support from your teammates.  To me, the guns feel like garbage.  AP is ok at best, and to me HE is trash (I don't have the Heavyweight Gun Unique Upgrade Module yet).  Compared to the other tier X cruisers and the same cruisers in the same nation (Smolensk)... whats the point playing Moskva.  Des Moines has better HE and AP output for it'd 203mm guns, Worcester is the same as Des Moines essentially,  Venetzia and her SAP and Full Speed smoke  and her amazing reload on her guns and her amazing Chunk damage, Mino and her fast reloading guns with smoke and torps, Zao with her long range powerful guns that can start a lot of fires, Yoshino.  Hindenburg with her good guns and armor layout with a nice set of consumables to compliment her.  All of these ships have many different playstyles and can adapt to a playstyle.. while I feel Moskva only has her 12 km radar going for her.. Idk honestly.  She is sluggish, her bow can bounce shots, but everyone aims for the superstructure when nose in.  I may be overthinking everything, or still don't know how to play her or position her correctly... but in my opinion there isn't a lot to be desired when there are alot of other better options.

 

Yes, I could grind those ships and have a better time... But I dont have the time to do that.  Ive been working on getting her for over a year, and just got her within the past monthish.  

 

I would love what you all think... I've just had this bad taste in my mouth for a while and just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

Edit, this is the wrong account.  Idk why I have more

 

Edited by McDouble_McTrouble81
Wrong account to be posting on

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I always thought her advantage was better range and better armor when angled (especially when compared to DM or Wooster).

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1 minute ago, Rokkator said:

I always thought her advantage was better range and better armor when angled (especially when compared to DM or Wooster).

I mean I agree, that 50mm of nose armor does bounce a lot of shots, and has been a life saver in some situations.  She is a good long range cruiser, but her dispersion is mediocre to garbage past 15 km in my opinion.  Ill get 4 to 5 HE pens and only get like 1k damage aiming at the superstructure of BB's  full broadside at or past 15km.  5 to 6k on broadsiding cruisers within 12 - 15km.  If they are angled, i get 1k or less.

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I've always thought that the Moskva's guns were fine.  My biggest gripe with the Moskva is that because she mounts radar, you're always expected to play within radar range of the front line.  And that usually means that you're going to have to be bow tanking, which I loathe doing.  I did it in clan battles because I really wanted to grind through my Moskva's Legendary Upgrade (which is done now) and, of course, because that's what was asked of me when I was in the ship.  (I suffered through my loathing because I wanted to completed the UU grind.) 

I would much rather play the Moskva as a kiter.  But then you run across one of her weaknesses, her terrible agility.  Dodging is not exactly the Moskva's strong suit.  You can do it to some degree, but not as well as the more agile tier 10 heavy cruisers.

 

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8 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I've always thought that the Moskva's guns were fine.  My biggest gripe with the Moskva is that because she mounts radar, you're always expected to play within radar range of the front line.  And that usually means that you're going to have to be bow tanking, which I loathe doing.  I did it in clan battles because I really wanted to grind through my Moskva's Legendary Upgrade (which is done now) and, of course, because that's what was asked of me when I was in the ship.  (I suffered through my loathing because I wanted to completed the UU grind.) 

I would much rather play the Moskva as a kiter.  But then you run across one of her weaknesses, her terrible agility.  Dodging is not exactly the Moskva's strong suit.  You can do it to some degree, but not as well as the more agile tier 10 heavy cruisers.

 

Be careful kitting as her but is soft. I think that even with a slow rudder and the turn radius of the Enterprise D at warp that a bob & weave style of play that keeps the bow more or less at the enemy is better but YMMV.

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Sounds to me like you're just playing it wrong.

Yes, the legendary upgrade makes the guns more accurate, but even without that Moskva is pretty vicious. It's one of the best snipers in the game, and can easily citadel any cruiser it faces at any range. Up close, it's able to punish battleship broadsides (or clap Yamato cheeks) with AP.

With the legendary... christ. It actually is what most people expect Stalingrad to be, and are disappointed to find out that it's not.

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My first 10 games in Moskva almost made me sell her.  Disastrous teams, with little to no support.  Almost threw the idea of getting Stalingrad out the window.  That’s when I changed the way I played her, and I changed my mind.

It’s super easy to get focused because of it’s size, detection, and clumsiness.  But those guns make up for a lot, they punish anything broadside and can really save your butt.  I wish the HE did more damage, but it’s a solid boat.  Keep trying.

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All I keep hearing is how laser accurate Moskva guns are with the legendary mod, it's not that accurate and nowhere near legendary zao. It doesn't have enough pen and alpha to punish broadside BBs, HE DPM is poor and doesn't pen most T10 BB decks and a mediocre fire starter at best.

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1 hour ago, Ado1fCarsar said:

All I keep hearing is how laser accurate Moskva guns are with the legendary mod, it's not that accurate and nowhere near legendary zao.

 

Except Zao not only has better dispersion thanks to her legendary mod, but Zao also has DD formula instead of the cruiser one. But that doesn't mean Moksva isn't accurate. It's not hard at all to land shell even on a DD at long range thanks to that accuracy and railguns.

 

1 hour ago, Ado1fCarsar said:

It doesn't have enough pen and alpha to punish broadside BBs

 

Hm.....No ?

 

Putting aside supercruiser, Moksva has the best AP pen value, along with Henri (which has 240mm) and Zao. You may not be able to citadel BB at max range, but at mid and close range, anything that gives you broadside gets citadel.

 

 

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The guns on Moskva are really good for the reality of High Tier Combat:  Long Range.  My friend who has Stalingrad prefer's the reliability of Moskva's guns.

I have always respected those guns when facing her.  She'll regularly connect to DPM targets with HE even at long range, and her AP demands respect from Cruisers.

Her Radar is a source of concern for DDs and Smoke Cruisers, but Moskva's detection range even with Stealth Build is BB bad.  You'll see her coming way before she's in Radar range, and if you get caught by her Radar, you deserve what's going to follow.

 

That said, I never felt comfortable with her.  She's not agile.  She's also gargantuan.  Her Citadel is humongous and her side protection is paper thin.  While bow on, she's pretty darn good.  Bow camping isn't viable if your flank is collapsing and are forced to fight on the move.

 

Mind you, Moskva isn't the only Cruiser that suffers badly when the flank is falling apart.  Des Moines who is typically supporting caps is far forward and is usually one of the first to go die when things go bad.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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26 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

Except Zao not only has better dispersion thanks to her legendary mod, but Zao also has DD formula instead of the cruiser one. But that doesn't mean Moksva isn't accurate. It's not hard at all to land shell even on a DD at long range thanks to that accuracy and railguns.

 

 

Hm.....No ?

 

Putting aside supercruiser, Moksva has the best AP pen value, along with Henri (which has 240mm) and Zao. You may not be able to citadel BB at max range, but at mid and close range, anything that gives you broadside gets citadel.

 

 

which t10 bb can Moskva citadel at a range of 8-10km? it doesn't matter if it has the best pen out of t10 cruisers, its still not enough and the alpha is very weak.

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15 minutes ago, Ado1fCarsar said:

which t10 bb can Moskva citadel at a range of 8-10km? it doesn't matter if it has the best pen out of t10 cruisers, its still not enough and the alpha is very weak.

-Montana

-Iowa

-NC

-Amagi

-Yamato

-Musashi

-Georgia

-Vlad

-Soyuz

-Kreml

 

I would love to see a Zao landing consistent citadel on say Yamato when he's broadside, something Moksva does not struggle to perform at all

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Moskva is a ship that works well with other ships that they can support and can get support from.  In randoms, it doesn't do as well unless you have a 3 ship division, because you can't count on any help.  That being said, it can be successful in randoms, but don't get in too close early in the game.  Stay at your prefered range so you can land shots without really worrying about other short range HE spammers landing shots back.  Use land to limit which ships can shoot back, but not necessarily as an island camper.  Later in the game, you can use your power to mop up late game ships.

A Moskva can punish a broadside ship with its AP, but its bread and butter is is long range HE when facing bow on ships.

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10 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

-Montana

-Iowa

-NC

-Amagi

-Yamato

-Musashi

-Georgia

-Vlad

-Soyuz

-Kreml

 

I would love to see a Zao landing consistent citadel on say Yamato when he's broadside, something Moksva does not struggle to perform at all

on your list there are only 3 T10 BBs. Moskva does not land consistent citadels on any of them except Yamato weak front turret, Zao can consistently do the exact same thing as slightly closer ranges Moskva only has ~400mm pen at 9km, that does not reliably citadel a T10 BB in any case. there is zero chance of punching through citadel plate of a Kremlin at 9km with a Moskva, it simply does not have enough pen, you'll need to be at <6km with completely flat broadside and no transversal velocity.   

Edited by Ado1fCarsar

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23 minutes ago, Ado1fCarsar said:

Moskva does not land consistent citadels on any of them except Yamato weak front turret, Zao can consistently do the exact same thing as slightly closer ranges

 

Whatever you say man...

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1 hour ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

Except Zao not only has better dispersion thanks to her legendary mod, but Zao also has DD formula instead of the cruiser one. But that doesn't mean Moksva isn't accurate. It's not hard at all to land shell even on a DD at long range thanks to that accuracy and railguns.

 

the Moskva is more accurate then zao , it doesn't look that way cause the Moskva has longer range and loses dispersion  .  And if you want to talk legendary mods Moskva's even better than zao's .  

I think Moskva's shells are also faster and don't fall off as fast as zao's if I remember correctly  

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3 minutes ago, EyE_dYe_QuIck said:

the Moskva is more accurate then zao , it doesn't look that way cause the Moskva has longer range and loses dispersion  .  And if you want to talk legendary mods Moskva's even better than zao's .  

I think Moskva's shells are also faster and don't fall off as fast as zao's if I remember correctly  

thats plain false. legendary zao groupings are way way better than legendary Moskva.

Edited by Ado1fCarsar
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8 minutes ago, Ado1fCarsar said:

thats plain false. legendary zao groupings are way way better than legendary Moskva.

 

 

not at the same range do the math zao is -7% dispersion and Moskva is ~11%  issue is zao cant even reach Moskva's stock range .  

Edited by EyE_dYe_QuIck

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2 minutes ago, EyE_dYe_QuIck said:

 

 

not at the same range do the math zao is -7% dispersion and Moskva is ~11%  issue is zao cant even reach Moskva's stock range .  

having a better multiplier on the mod doesn't make the end result better. zao has a MUCH better dispersion model than Moskva. 

Edited by Ado1fCarsar

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Just now, Ado1fCarsar said:

having a better multiplier on the mod doesn't make the end result better. zoo has a MUCH better dispersion model than Moskva. 

where's this  evidence 

zao at 18.8 km range has dispersion of 157m   

Moskva at 19.4km has 168m

slap on legendary  what do they come out to ? They are within 3m  add the percentage loss for the extra range Moskva has . whats it come out to?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, EyE_dYe_QuIck said:

where's this  evidence 

zao at 18.8 km range has dispersion of 157m   

Moskva at 19.4km has 168m

slap on legendary  what do they come out to ? They are within 3m  add the percentage loss for the extra range Moskva has . whats it come out to?

 

 

they do not have the same dispersion model, zao follows the DD formula. go look it up and test it in game.

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14 minutes ago, Ado1fCarsar said:

they do not have the same dispersion model, zao follows the DD formula. go look it up and test it in game.

not sure what your talking about here , my guess is the vertical dispersion ? while zao's may be better with both ships having 2.05 sigma only the 25% hit probability  should be larger on Moskva until you put legendary on .  

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