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Warlord_Deadeye_Pete

Tone, Chikuma

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Model is in the client and has been there for years.

I understand the question has always been "how do we handle the aircraft?"

I suggest a 2 part solution.  First conventional float fighter handled the same way it is on all other ships with the float fighter consumable, but with either a longer active period or a shorter cool down before reuse..  

 

The second solution is "recon aircraft"  again limited charges, cool down more like that of spotting aircraft.  Different from normal spotters in that you direct them to go somewhere.  Following typical doctrine of the period the planes flies out and flies back. It's flight bath is wedge shaped covering a 30* arc.  One the plane returns to the point of launch it is done and is shown returning to the cruiser but is not longer "spotting".

In all other ways it functions as any other IJN heavy cruisers.  I would suggest 2 ships, Chikuma at tier VII, Tone at Tier VIII.  Chikuma utilized riveted construction, Tone utilized welded construction other wise I understand the ship were functionally identical.  If the ships were tech tree I would suggest 2 refits but they should be premium.

Chikuma at tier VII would reflect the class to 1942/early 43.  Tone would represent the class after it's final refit late 43 getting a choice of Float Fighter OR Scout Plane

and would receive radar (about the same as the original US radar endurance say 25 seconds.. shouldn't be as good as US but the ship did have it.  The 43 refit stripped some aircraft off the ships in exchange for a dramatically increased battery of 25mm AA carried aft where there was  now room.

It is said that in many ways these ships as cruisers were more capable then the Mogami class as they had a lower center of gravity and notably less issues with stability in heavy seas and had less issues with water shipping over the bow which would in heavy seas result in the Myoko, Takao and Mogami being unable to effectively use the A turret in certain conditions along with the noted top heavy state of all 3 ship classes.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Model is in the client and has been there for years.

That isn't actually true, Tone's model was removed from the client a long time ago, as you can see there are no files referencing Tone at all.

Faylq.png

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Almost anything you do with the aircraft will have trouble making up for that gun layout. A relatively squishy cruiser with almost no ability to kite. Unless some really super gimmicks are added, they would be T6 at best.  Good gimmicks would  boost them to T7.

Having multiple or quick reload fighter and spotters would not make up for that gun layout. The long range spotter would be cute but would die in seconds after spotting most enemy ships so would be of marginal use. Having nearly constant spotters overhead giving you superior range to other IJN CAs might be good if you plan on playing a long range sniper. You still will not outrange certain other cruisers and most BBs. The fighters are only useful if a CV is present (and wants to come after you).

Certainly the ship collectors will snatch them up but not sure about the general population.

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First reply:  If they took it out, they can easily put it back in.   the art work/model however does all ready exist.

 

Second reply: The idea is for the second launched aircraft type to be a NEW type.  A scout not an artillery spotter.  It will NOT extend gun range.. It is a high flying scout plane which serves only one single purpose which is to spot ships and thats it.   So should be effectively invulnerable.  It flies out, it flies back, it's done.  Your team has a limited time to take the shots at revealed target.  It has no attack capability what so ever.  The idea is to not turn these ships into another type a CV.. it's a "Scout" cruiser.  It's job for the IJN was to be the eye's of the fleet.  IJN naval air doctrine did use carrier based scouting.  And you cant "scout" if your aircraft is orbiting your cruiser at 2 to 3 Km.  To scout you have to go out!

The "regular" float plane fighter can be either a fighter or a spotter.. (I'd go with the fighter.. these days you can never have 'nuff AA power especially in the mid tiers where you will likely get uptiered if your any good at all.) and is used just the same as current float plane air and with a shorter cooldown to reflect that the ships has dedicated and extensive facilities and crew for handling float aircraft.

As for "making up" for the gun layout.. you don't.. your "kiting" weapon should be your torps.  We have a number of BB's with all guns forward.  If a BB can do it, a cruiser can do it.  It's not up to wargaming to make the ship work.  That's up to the player, as It all ways has been.  In combat this is a supporting ship.   And a handy ship to lead a push.  

The idea here is a unique heavy cruiser.  As for balancing it against other cruisers .. easy simple.. give it a faster ROF then typical IJN cruisers to make up for the less then stellar gun arcs.   Say a 10 to 12 second refire delay.    Justification is in many ways it was a better sea keeping ship that all of the other IJN CA's  (significantly less pitch and roll underway as unlike all other IJN CA these ships did not suffer from being top heavy)  Both ships lasted right up to the end of the war for all practical purposes.

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff
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P.S. how about some other idea's to make these ships work instead of shooting it down.. shooting it down is easy.  The reality of these ships however is both were successful ships the performed their mission role through out the war.  

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Well, the Tone has an 8-gun broadside, which isn't too much of a firepower issue, at least in comparison to the other nations.

 

As for consumables, why not give it a Lazo-style spotter and perhaps a carrier's CAP fighters? It can function as a super-long range HE spammer that's extremely unpleasant for carriers to approach.

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On 2/14/2020 at 6:38 PM, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Second reply: The idea is for the second launched aircraft type to be a NEW type.  A scout not an artillery spotter.  It will NOT extend gun range.. It is a high flying scout plane which serves only one single purpose which is to spot ships and thats it.   So should be effectively invulnerable.  It flies out, it flies back, it's done.  Your team has a limited time to take the shots at revealed target.  It has no attack capability what so ever.  The idea is to not turn these ships into another type a CV.. it's a "Scout" cruiser.  It's job for the IJN was to be the eye's of the fleet.  IJN naval air doctrine did use carrier based scouting.  And you cant "scout" if your aircraft is orbiting your cruiser at 2 to 3 Km.  To scout you have to go out!

I think this is a fantastic idea, way better than the half baked ideas i posted last year! this really is fun and unique and this setup really captures what it was designed to do. However it might be beneficial if you're personal range was extended with this new spotter because with all guns forward its slightly situational, so give it a bonus to help it fight fairly? im thinking i'd like to play this thing at stand off range when i can get away with it.

 

On 2/14/2020 at 6:38 PM, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

As for "making up" for the gun layout.. you don't.. your "kiting" weapon should be your torps.  We have a number of BB's with all guns forward.  If a BB can do it, a cruiser can do it.  It's not up to wargaming to make the ship work.  That's up to the player, as It all ways has been.  In combat this is a supporting ship.   And a handy ship to lead a push.

Absolutely agree, which i why i love IJN torpedo-botes. And i totally agree about how its up to the player(although im not sure about Yahagi lol). I'm already trying to figure out the playstyles of one of these in my head. and personally I would prefer one of them at T7, possibly even T6(becuase of all guns forward) because i enjoy the mid tiers. 

 

On 2/14/2020 at 8:01 PM, Arri_Shi said:

perhaps a carrier's CAP fighters? It can function as a super-long range HE spammer that's extremely unpleasant for carriers to approach.

This is an interesting concept, i like it. i figure as a support ship you want to be in the back or behind an island, but not quite "out of the fight"

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