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Shoggoth_pinup

Hawkins, and why she's my new favorite T5 ship

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Simply put... you can bounce Yamato if allowed to. You have a small section of armor on your bow that isn't 38mm. Likewise, your sides are a massive wall of 58mm+ steel. Your 16mm deck is really your only weakness against 1v1 BBs. Just bow-in and reverse, and maybe chuck torps too if you're feeling fancy.

BBs basically have to switch to HE if you get them where you want them. I spent probably about 3-4 minutes bouncing a colorado in a cyclone. The first shot took half my health, as I was actually too bow-in.

That said, she isn't without weaknesses. Her citadel is 64-76mm, and BBs with enough pen in their HE will cit you.

Kiting, she can get 4 guns on target with little issue. Charging, 3. Hard bow-in, 2. These 190mm guns are surprisingly nice, hitting for about 1k per HE shell, and can cit a wide range of cruisers with her AP for 4,050 per shell. She has 7 of these 190mm guns, though a broadside of only 6. Theoretically, you could zig zag to alternate the wing turrets while kiting, giving you 5 guns to play with. Almost as much as her full broadside.

Even her AA performs well, as I've managed upwards of 20 planes downed in some matches.

Hawkins is just plain good. Her one weakness just gives her that hint of a cruiser feel, not actually being majorly weak. That said, she compares well to Furutaka, but leans on protection rather than offensive ability.

This is a ship I'm keeping for T5+ events when I get in a sour mood.

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup
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49 minutes ago, Panzer1113 said:

Bah ha ha - it was a pile of burning waste material- sold it as quickly as I could

35 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

It sucks.

Please elaborate. You effectively have said nothing of value. Why do you feel this way specifically? Is it gun range? Is it torp count? Rather than add zero value, actually argue your stance. Otherwise, you might as well have said nothing, as you would have added more value to this discussion by saying nothing at all.

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup

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It's sluggish has a long reload and gets killed easily, maybe it's better in random battles.

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Just now, Sovereigndawg said:

It's sluggish has a long reload and gets killed easily, maybe it's better in random battles.

Thank you.

Her bow armor is largely 38mm. In the case of co-op, you can effectively bounce any BB you come up against so long as you make a bee line towards them. Only issue is that you have few torps, so you'd need to get creative once you get there. That said, don't approach perfectly straight towards the enemy. You need to avoid having them overmatch your bow and the front of your cit. However, with proper angling, BBs can only really shoot your super structure or switch to HE. BBs in co-op do not use HE against cruisers, meaning you are effectively able to bounce just about anything they throw at you so long as you play her more like a BB with CA guns and laughable armor thickness when 1v1 with a BB, and also never give up your side to a BB. Also avoid showing side to cruisers while you are on fire. Her armor is thin, but its inability to be overmatched makes her one of the tankiest CAs in the entire game so long as they fire AP at you and aren't at extreme range enough to penetrate your citadel deck. As such, try to never put out fires if you can help it, thus ensuring the bots keep firing AP, which you can then easily bounce.

As for the long reload, it's actually about average for a T5 CA. Genova's is 20s (but with enough guns that it's effectively comparable to the rest), Furutaka's is 15s, and I'm pretty sure Exeter's is also 15s as well. Thus, 15s isn't long unless you include CLs, which would be silly considering that this is a CA line.

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Different ships are good for different Captains. If you mention almost ANY ship you think sux, I can probably find you a vet player who thinks it's just fine if not really great. It really is the Captain and not the ship. Like they say in the used car business; there is an azz for every seat.

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2 hours ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Simply put... you can bounce Yamato if allowed to. You have a small section of armor on your bow that isn't 38mm. Likewise, your sides are a massive wall of 58mm+ steel. Your 16mm deck is really your only weakness against 1v1 BBs. Just bow-in and reverse, and maybe chuck torps too if you're feeling fancy.

BBs basically have to switch to HE if you get them where you want them. I spent probably about 3-4 minutes bouncing a colorado in a cyclone. The first shot took half my health, as I was actually too bow-in.

That said, she isn't without weaknesses. Her citadel is 64-76mm, and BBs with enough pen in their HE will cit you.

Kiting, she can get 4 guns on target with little issue. Charging, 3. Hard bow-in, 2. These 190mm guns are surprisingly nice, hitting for about 1k per HE shell, and can cit a wide range of cruisers with her AP for 4,050 per shell. She has 7 of these 190mm guns, though a broadside of only 6. Theoretically, you could zig zag to alternate the wing turrets while kiting, giving you 5 guns to play with. Almost as much as her full broadside.

Even her AA performs well, as I've managed upwards of 20 planes downed in some matches.

Hawkins is just plain good. Her one weakness just gives her that hint of a cruiser feel, not actually being majorly weak. That said, she compares well to Furutaka, but leans on protection rather than offensive ability.

This is a ship I'm keeping for T5+ events when I get in a sour mood.

Thanks for the information. 

I only got the T6 from tokens.

I just got enough exp to unlock the t7.

Then I FXP'd to tier 8.....

I bounced 3 Yammy salvos as I kited away....

....

I enjoyed the T6.

Love the T8.

Only played 1 game in T7 and did decent. 

....

Going into the pre-releas I thought these would be utter crap. Boy was I wrong.

 

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4 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Different ships are good for different Captains. If you mention almost ANY ship you think sux, I can probably find you a vet player who thinks it's just fine if not really great. It really is the Captain and not the ship. Like they say in the used car business; there is an azz for every seat.

Danae. A citadel deck that can be overmatched by 127mm HE, as well as probably all rockets if memory serves, and she has no smoke.

Edit: How Emerald, a ship with smoke, can have a similar deck buffed into being quite nice is beyond me. Danae is without a doubt the worst ship in the game, if anyone were to ask me, especially with how T4 CVs are a common sight for her.

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup

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5 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Danae.

I have a blast with Krasny Krym, a ship everyone hates, and yet I can't make Kongo work for me, a ship everyone loves. Go figure. Some ships just work for some people, and some ships just don't; it really is all about the Captain.

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    I agree, Hawkins is like T5 Moskva in a way.

Edited by Alabamastan

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3 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I have a blast with Krasny Krym, a ship everyone hates, and yet I can't make Kongo work for me, a ship everyone loves. Go figure. Some ships just work for some people, and some ships just don't; it really is all about the Captain.

The difference is that Krasny Krym is actually fairly good when used right, as is Kongou. It's just that most don't bother to figure out what using KK right looks like, as she's almost a T5 Atlanta, but as nobody likes her nobody ever draws that connection. Likewise, Kongou plays a lot like other fast and flimsy BBs, and thus requires some degree of understanding how to  leverage speed and positioning to thrive.

Meanwhile, Hawkins is literal just point the front of your ship at a BB and twerk your way in reverse to victory, and the only cruiser I've heard of doing something like that is Moskva outside of guns simply too small to pen one's bow plating proper, like against Des Moines. Thus, she's a T5 Moskva with torps, to a degree. If one understands how angling and overmatch works, one can beat any BB that is stubborn enough to not switch to HE or lucky enough to get a cit despite it being nigh impossible at closer ranges, so long as you don't get lazy and simply bow tank. Even Yamato would struggle to kill this thing with AP, if not for her lacking health pool befitting a T5. If one understands overmatch and thus the significance of a largely 38mm bow, one can do some pretty hilariously effective things in her. Not only that, but almost everything below her deck shatters cruiser HE. She's almost as hard to deal with as Pyotr Velikiy's or October Revolution's armor, but in cruiser form. Heck, thinking about it, he armor scheme is a lot like the latter's in a way, with an oddly shaped bald spot on her bow.

Back on the topic of Danae, though, even behind an island spamming she's unreliable due to the state of super structures at this tier. Even YOLO rushing with torps, she's so flimsy that she'd explode horribly even with those 4x3 torps. And even then, you have Friant at T3 doing everything she does but better and with HE. You'd need to be a masochist to call Danae your favorite ship, plain and simple. Danae is so bad that it resulted in me brainstorming up a thread on the topic of fixing such ships up, and possible ways to do so. Haven't started it yet, but plan to.

My own unpopular ships I like would be Viribus Unitis and Krasny Krym. The former you just have to play like if Katori and Arizona had a very confused baby that practically is a giant cruiser with a massive broadside potential. The difference between Viribus Unitis and Krasny Krym, however, is that the former I would call underpowered and hard to use, and the latter I would just call hard to use and needing a high end commander much like Atlanta and other such CLs.

That said, this thread is one part gushing, and one part making fun of the extremes of this ship's balance. If played well enough, she could probably burn down a Yamato in a 1v1. I wasn't even playing her well, as it was the very first time I got a chance to try doing this, and I tanked a Colorado for minutes, and, ignoring that very first attempt at bow tanking that went poorly due to going too bow-in, I barely lost any health at all. Probably 5-6k health, while slowly burning that Colorado to the water. Firing only 2 guns made that tricky, but now that I better know how she works I feel I could use 3, or possibly even more if I want to get risky.

Really, the biggest risk in her would be being outrun by a BB if they go fast enough to catch up to her while she's going in reverse.

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2 minutes ago, Alabamastan said:

    I agree, Hawkins is like T5 Moskva in a way.

Hah! Took the words right out of my mouth from what I said in my reply to that other guy. :Smile_teethhappy: Seems I'm not alone in noticing that little detail. I haven't used Moskva, however, so it didn't come immediately. Only realized about 10 minutes ago.

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7 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

My own unpopular ships I like would be Viribus Unitis

Never played VU, though I have heard a lot of negativity behind her and how she needs to be played. I agree with what you've said about KK, but once you get her style down she's a ton of fun. Haven't played Hawkins yet, either, but I have played Devonshire and I love her. Great little ship. 

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6 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Never played VU, though I have heard a lot of negativity behind her and how she needs to be played. I agree with what you've said about KK, but once you get her style down she's a ton of fun. Haven't played Hawkins yet, either, but I have played Devonshire and I love her. Great little ship. 

Agreed. KK was a ship I expected to hate, but I figured I'd try her anyways while I was a pumpkin. ...All the fun of atlanta, but at T5, so less explodey!

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Going in reverse bow in for 5 min against a BB doesn’t sound like much fun . 

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22 hours ago, clammboy said:

Going in reverse bow in for 5 min against a BB doesn’t sound like much fun . 

You could probably also use this to charge them and drop some torps, but that requires a lot more risk.

Edit: Or even ram!

Edit 2: Or, if you're feeling fancy, both! Your torps probably won't be enough unless a BB is weakened after all.

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup
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I'm not sure about this bow tanking idea. Lost first 2 games in her although it was a complete blowout both times. Her gun configuration means you need to be side on to fire 6 of them, a very dangerous position. Although you want to be firing as many as possible with the long reloads.

The HE was nothing special and is diminished by the low number you are firing. Haven't really got a chance to use the AP because of how slow she is.

Last game I lost 3/4 HP to HE spam from other CAs. Couldn't unmask more guns because of the ridiculous 10 second rudder shift. Forced to fire 2-3 guns are max range. Managed to heal some HP. A Fuso showed up and knocked another 1/4 HP in his first salvo of AP. I tried to retreat but the rudder shift made me a nice target when his guns reloaded. I finished with 8 hits. Yep.....8. Awesome.

I'm not sure what you're expected to do in her? You can't unmask enough guns to do any damage. You can't dodge or maneuver. Are you really supposed to spend the entire match slowly burning while firing 2-3 guns and reversing? How is that fun?

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Well I like to finish on a good note so my first win in her would qualify. 1 and 3 so far. 3rd game a Kongo got me for 9k in 2 salvos. A Gulio Cesare finished me off in 3 salvos. I managed 15 hits that game.

4th game MM decides I'm a BB and places me and 2 BBs across from 3 enemy BBs. Okay then. Had no choice to bow on cause nowhere to run. Did well alternating enough to get 3 and sometimes 4 guns firing.  There are 2 enemy Texas firing at me. Each salvo is doing 3400 or 4200 damage. Half HP gone in 4 salvos. Not looking good. Thankfully they were distracted. I chased down and killed a dd. Went back to kiting the Texas. Other people sank them. Don't feel like I contributed.

Definitely need reload and rudder shift buffs.

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I was just going to post on why does it lose almost all of its health on one hit.  Its happened numerous times to me.  All the other cruisers I have played I have yet seen one lose its health so quickly from just cannon fire.  It can not be citadel hits all the time … but I could be wrong.   The ship is average on the rest, but I am still unlocking the 2 unlocks.   The biggest thing is you do not want to be focused on.   

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On 2/13/2020 at 10:20 PM, Umikami said:

Different ships are good for different Captains. If you mention almost ANY ship you think sux, I can probably find you a vet player who thinks it's just fine if not really great. It really is the Captain and not the ship. Like they say in the used car business; there is an azz for every seat.

Agreed. There's players who say that Huanghe sucketh most heinously. Personally, I find her to be a damn good bote.

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2 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

Agreed. There's players who say that Huanghe sucketh most heinously. Personally, I find her to be a damn good bote.

When you can't use your rear guns, you're basically just a different flavor to perth, honestly. Really, Huanghe's issue is the same as Duca D'aosta, Krasny Krym and Atlanta: they need a lot of work to make work properly. All four are point starved, and Huanghe basically needs the smoke mod on top of that to truly shine. If you lack either, and doubly so if one doesn't even have a 10 pointer, she's a pretty painful ship to make work. But boy is she fun if you have everything the ship wants!

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On 2/26/2020 at 12:40 PM, Painbringer71 said:

I was just going to post on why does it lose almost all of its health on one hit.  Its happened numerous times to me.  All the other cruisers I have played I have yet seen one lose its health so quickly from just cannon fire.  It can not be citadel hits all the time … but I could be wrong.   The ship is average on the rest, but I am still unlocking the 2 unlocks.   The biggest thing is you do not want to be focused on.   

She's a ship that requires an understanding of how bouncing, overmatch and shell arcs work to truly shine. She's either a lovely kiting ship as she can shatter plenty of HE with a slight tweak to the rudder, or can outright bounce any ship in the game if close enough to them.

That said, her sides are hilariously squishy if you can't manage a bounce, meaning she's easily punished for misplay, and long range AP salvos will  generally simple ignore your deck and go right into your cit. She's a ship that requires one to know where to put one's ship, as being focused will be the death of you. Not only that, but large enough HE can also citadel you, i you aren't careful.

That said, Danae loses all her health way easier. She can be cit by even the HE of many DDs! :Smile_teethhappy: CV rockets, too, which really have no business citting anything, honestly... How you got past Danae and haven't experienced this before is beyond me.

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