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Commander skills for Thunderer

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I have had the Thunderer now for a few days and I am trying to figure out the best build for commander points. I have gone to wiki and ask others but no one agrees on anything so I figured I would put it to the community. I have a 16 point commander. Wiki says to spend points where I don't think it would best for my play style. I pretty much only use this ship in clan battles and would like the optimal build from more experienced players. Thanks to the community for your help.

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A standard survival build is the default build for any battleship with only a few exceptions (namely the Germans and Mass/Georgia):

PT, EM, AR, SI, CE, FP for the first 16 points, then either BoS (recommended), or HA or JoaT and PM

Modules would also be pretty standard - Main armaments, damacon 1 aiming or turret traverse (although aiming would be the better choice since it further increases one of Thunderer’s already strong traits), damacon 2, concealment, reload

 

I've never played Thunderer in any competitive mode, but I have played other battleships and unless you’re in a secondary focused ship I’d always run a survival build. 

Edited by MidnightPhoenix07

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I prefer survivability builds.  They work best for most of my BBs.  

PM
EM
Superintendent
AR
BOS
Fire Prevention 
CE
 
 

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Like others have said, you want the survival skills. PT, EM, AR, SI, FP, CE. Save the last 3 points for BoS.

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2 minutes ago, _BBaby said:

Like others have said, you want the survival skills. PT, EM, AR, SI, FP, CE. Save the last 3 points for BoS.

PT is not very useful with tier 10 BBs. PT is recommended to keep your main guns from being knocked out easily. 

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4 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

PT is not very useful with tier 10 BBs. PT is recommended to keep your main guns from being knocked out easily. 

Ehh it is a personal call. I've always gone PT, but have been trying to pull away from it. 

 

But OP said he plays Thunderer for CBs, which I will argue PT is a better pick any day than PM

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You really might want to consider EL as Thunderer AP on broadsides is brutal. 

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15 hours ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

A standard survival build is the default build for any battleship with only a few exceptions (namely the Germans and Mass/Georgia):

PT, EM, AR, SI, CE, FP for the first 16 points, then either BoS (recommended), or HA or JoaT and PM

Modules would also be pretty standard - Main armaments, damacon 1 aiming or turret traverse (although aiming would be the better choice since it further increases one of Thunderer’s already strong traits), damacon 2, concealment, reload

 

I've never played Thunderer in any competitive mode, but I have played other battleships and unless you’re in a secondary focused ship I’d always run a survival build. 

I ranked out in Thunderer on the PTS ranked 15 test. Survival build was the way to go. MBM3 is killer already, but tack on the fire rate buffs from Arms Race, and you're down into heavy cruiser fire rate territory. With 18" rifles.

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16 hours ago, _BBaby said:

Ehh it is a personal call. I've always gone PT, but have been trying to pull away from it. 

But OP said he plays Thunderer for CBs, which I will argue PT is a better pick any day than PM

In my opinion, as a BB main who owns every T10 BB  (except Bourgogne) I don't see how PT is effective in any battle mode. BBs don't have the speed are maneuverability to turn quickly and avoid enemy ships already targeting it. On the other hand, losing your main guns during a CB is very problematic.   

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1 hour ago, STINKWEED_ said:

In my opinion, as a BB main who owns every T10 BB  (except Bourgogne) I don't see how PT is effective in any battle mode. BBs don't have the speed are maneuverability to turn quickly and avoid enemy ships already targeting it. On the other hand, losing your main guns during a CB is very problematic.   

In my opinion, with all the BBs, in CBs it's nice to know how many target you sometimes. May give info about how many people are on a flank, or let you know about potential DD threats. There also is less BBs that are going to do the major part of the knocking out of your guns.

Still, all a personal flavor... just like EL on applicable ships

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4 hours ago, _BBaby said:

In my opinion, with all the BBs, in CBs it's nice to know how many target you sometimes. May give info about how many people are on a flank, or let you know about potential DD threats. There also is less BBs that are going to do the major part of the knocking out of your guns.

Still, all a personal flavor... just like EL on applicable ships

Knowing a DD is threatening you isn't what PT was designed for. Good BB players know to expect and assume there's DDs nearby and not to sit in any one place too long or move in a straight line. Knowing how many ships are targeting me makes no difference at all because I can see the shells being fired at my direction before there's anything I can do about it. I'll have to respond regardless of the alert and YES I've had my guns knocked out at really bad times during a battle. Losing half of your forward guns when your HP is low is a bigger problem. Anyhow, I have 13,500 battles so what do I know.  

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On 2/14/2020 at 4:04 PM, STINKWEED_ said:

Knowing a DD is threatening you isn't what PT was designed for. Good BB players know to expect and assume there's DDs nearby and not to sit in any one place too long or move in a straight line. Knowing how many ships are targeting me makes no difference at all because I can see the shells being fired at my direction before there's anything I can do about it. I'll have to respond regardless of the alert and YES I've had my guns knocked out at really bad times during a battle. Losing half of your forward guns when your HP is low is a bigger problem. Anyhow, I have 13,500 battles so what do I know.  

Knowing how many ships are looking at you before they shoot at you gives you options unless you don't react at all. There are a lot of ships that have far better detection than a BB. It gives you more information that you can use with your mini map to deduce where you can go and how much risk is involved based on the state of the match and what your mini map says. Knowing of a potential DD threat is only a tiny part of it.

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11 hours ago, Vekta408 said:

Knowing how many ships are looking at you before they shoot at you gives you options unless you don't react at all. There are a lot of ships that have far better detection than a BB. It gives you more information that you can use with your mini map to deduce where you can go and how much risk is involved based on the state of the match and what your mini map says. Knowing of a potential DD threat is only a tiny part of it.

Yes, but in a DD and cruiser you can react. There's very little you can do in most BBs. They don't have the speed nor the steering. Either way you are going to be rained on by HE spam whether you know in advance or not.  It's a waste of skill. Better to make sure your main guns don't get knocked out

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2 hours ago, STINKWEED_ said:

Yes, but in a DD and cruiser you can react. There's very little you can do in most BBs. They don't have the speed nor the steering. Either way you are going to be rained on by HE spam whether you know in advance or not.  It's a waste of skill. Better to make sure your main guns don't get knocked out

What BB are we talking about? If a Soyuz can maneuver and position itself to react and steer I don't see how other boats of the same class that have less than a 950 meter turning circle and 16 second rudder shift can't manage it just as well or better. That just doesn't make any sense. How much advanced warning do you need? 5 minutes?

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1 hour ago, Vekta408 said:

What BB are we talking about? If a Soyuz can maneuver and position itself to react and steer I don't see how other boats of the same class that have less than a 950 meter turning circle and 16 second rudder shift can't manage it just as well or better. That just doesn't make any sense. How much advanced warning do you need? 5 minutes?

In case you haven't noticed, WOWS is full tilt HE Spam meta. There's no BB's that can out maneuver a bunch of spam cruisers targeting you. I'm a BB main and I have practically every T10 BB.
This is just fact. If you want to waste your skill on PT go ahead. I'd rather guarantee my main guns aren't taken out when I most need them.

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PM isn't as useful as advertised for BBs because of the scaling factor in the chance to lose your turret. LWM provided good details in post #27 here:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/141211-premium-ship-review-tirpitz-06121/?page=2

I find the info PT gives is still useful, particularly when you are further out, you can begin a turn and/or change your speed, even in a Thunderer. Closer up its still useful as a torpedo launch detection: not all players have patience. 

 

Edited by nlm_mln

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Ill just add this here because its on subject:

With the changed to IFHE ... cutting fire chance by half... 

Is Thunderer better off taking IFHE to increase raw damage per hit on practically everything it touches and still end up with equivalent fire chance to other non-brit BBs or is it better to just keep demolition expert for extra fires?

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On 6/11/2020 at 4:17 PM, Skyfaller said:

Ill just add this here because its on subject:

With the changed to IFHE ... cutting fire chance by half... 

Is Thunderer better off taking IFHE to increase raw damage per hit on practically everything it touches and still end up with equivalent fire chance to other non-brit BBs or is it better to just keep demolition expert for extra fires?

Neither.  They are a waste of points on BBs.  Using IFHE your HE pen would go from 114mm to 143mm.  For four points that isn't worth it.  Further, it would cut your effective fire chance from 30.5% to 15.25%.  DE would only bring that up to 16.25% with IFHE or 31.5% without IFHE, again not nearly enough gain for three points.

If you need to penetrate armor, Thunderer has excellent AP. 

DE is for small, fast firing guns that don't have much chance of starting a fire with a given shell, not for slow firing BBs with massive fire chances.

As advised above, Thunderer is best used with a survivability build.

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On 6/19/2020 at 2:59 AM, Helstrem said:

Neither.  They are a waste of points on BBs.  Using IFHE your HE pen would go from 114mm to 143mm.  For four points that isn't worth it.  Further, it would cut your effective fire chance from 30.5% to 15.25%.  DE would only bring that up to 16.25% with IFHE or 31.5% without IFHE, again not nearly enough gain for three points.

If you need to penetrate armor, Thunderer has excellent AP. 

DE is for small, fast firing guns that don't have much chance of starting a fire with a given shell, not for slow firing BBs with massive fire chances.

As advised above, Thunderer is best used with a survivability build.

Yes, I am aware of the numbers. My point was given the brit HE monster damage the IFHE would increase it..and also allow for citadels on many cruisers (so no need to swap to AP for example). 

This is more to deal with the bias op soviet BBs when bow on. Fires are great but they aren't going to do much once the superstructure is damage saturated. To pen these bias ship super-armored decks and do increased damage (and knock out their guns) I was hoping the IFHE would add a big oomph to it. 

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3 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Yes, I am aware of the numbers. My point was given the brit HE monster damage the IFHE would increase it..and also allow for citadels on many cruisers (so no need to swap to AP for example). 

This is more to deal with the bias op soviet BBs when bow on. Fires are great but they aren't going to do much once the superstructure is damage saturated. To pen these bias ship super-armored decks and do increased damage (and knock out their guns) I was hoping the IFHE would add a big oomph to it. 

457mm AP overmatches cruiser plating.  You may have noticed a lot of posts by cruiser players complaining about the proliferation of 430+mm guns in the last couple of years.  IFHE on Thunderer will only add a very few cruiser belts to Thunderer's HE menu.  It will not significantly increase its HE damage, and will significantly decrease its fire damage.  Overall it would certainly be a decrease in damage.  AP citadels are also more than twice as much damage as HE citadels, and AP penetrations likewise more than twice as much as HE penetrations.

IFHE will also not put more sections of Soviet BBs on the menu.  Belts will still shatter it and other sections will still be penetrated by it.  It will halve your fire chance though.  FIre is also not subject to saturation like your second line implies. Again, taking IFHE will certainly reduce the damage Thunderer inflicts.  For best results against Soviet BBs using HE when they are bow in, or heavily angled, and AP when you have broadside.

You seem to be trying to avoid using Thunderer's AP.  Thunderer has some of the most effective AP in the game.

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I find a lot of enemy players don't expect Thunderer to switch to AP, too.  I mean, the HE is great but good lord that AP is brutal.  I haven't had it for long, but I do run it with EL and lighting them on fire then switching to AP in ~12 seconds will often catch them turning out and broadside.  With Thunderer's dispersion catching an enemy broadside with AP is often severely damaging, if not outright fatal.  I'm not a great player by any stretch, but this ship is stupid easy to rack up damage in.

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