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SkullDuggery05

CV tier Balance

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I can understand the frustration of CV players in tier 4,5, and 6 getting uptiered and having their planes shredded to pieces. I also feel for the noob playing tier 3,4 and 5 with under 10 Capt points going against Seal clubbing 19 pt CV players who take advantage of less exp players. CV players, It is historically true that older CV's FOUGHT AGAINST MORE MODERN SHIPS. USS Saratoga CV3 was comissioned in 1927 I believe but the difference was in ww2 Her AA and Airgroups had been upgraded. So If MM puts you in at tier 8 and your in a stock tier 6 CV the AA and Airgroups should be upgraded for that game. That would balance the CV to the tier it is playing. Just an idea.

Edited by SkullDuggery05
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All CVs up-tier either decently or incredibly well. Assuming sufficient skill T8 CVs deal superbly with T10s, T6 CVs do perfectly fine against T8s and even T4 CVs murder T6s if they happen to meet them due to fail div.

Such adjustments to researchable modules is contrary to one of the ways WG monetizes the game, as such that will never happen.

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7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

All CVs up-tier either decently or incredibly well. Assuming sufficient skill T8 CVs deal superbly with T10s, T6 CVs do perfectly fine against T8s and even T4 CVs murder T6s if they happen to meet them due to fail div.

Such adjustments to researchable modules is contrary to one of the ways WG monetizes the game, as such that will never happen.

Accoring to a previous post an OP was complaing about getting uptierd and his planes all getting shot up because his Airgroups were outdated against tier 8 ships while he was in a tier 6. So this was my suggestion. Of course I may be totaly wrong.

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T10 AA is way out of control. There are just to many AA ships. t10 AA needs to be toned down and more CV players will start playing t8 - 10 CVs again You literally have to be a masochist to play a T8 cv........T10 is hell... Not as bad as T8 but still.... ill get some people in here would  say im somehow wrong. But the facts remain most CV players prefer lower tiers for a damn good reason. But continue sticking your fingers in your ear and say la la la I don't hear you. You are wrong.

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13 minutes ago, SkullDuggery05 said:

Accoring to a previous post an OP was complaing about getting uptierd and his planes all getting shot up because his Airgroups were outdated against tier 8 ships while he was in a tier 6. So this was my suggestion. Of course I may be totaly wrong.

Don't believe everything people post on the internet.  Especially on this forum.

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

Don't believe everything people post on the internet.  Especially on this forum.

Yeah, I don't see the problem in tier 6 tier 6 is in the perfect spot. Tr8 and tr10 are in a rough spot. Due to how insanely overpowered AA is at AA is at tier 10.

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22 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

All CVs up-tier either decently or incredibly well. Assuming sufficient skill T8 CVs deal superbly with T10s, T6 CVs do perfectly fine against T8s and even T4 CVs murder T6s if they happen to meet them due to fail div.

Such adjustments to researchable modules is contrary to one of the ways WG monetizes the game, as such that will never happen.

In what alternate universe do CV's up tier well or are you a unicum CV player on your other account? Sling shot attacks are the only viable way to attack with a bottom tier CV and that really only works with DB's.

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Just now, cronics said:

Yeah, I don't see the problem in tier 6 tier 6 is in the perfect spot. Tr8 and tr10 are in a rough spot. Due to how insanely overpowered AA is at AA is at tier 10.

Tier 6 is alright against tier 6 & 7 but they still struggle against tier 8.

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13 minutes ago, cronics said:

T10 AA is way out of control. There are just to many AA ships. t10 AA needs to be toned down and more CV players will start playing t8 - 10 CVs again You literally have to be a masochist to play a T8 cv........T10 is hell... Not as bad as T8 but still.... ill get some people in here would  say im somehow wrong. But the facts remain most CV players prefer lower tiers for a damn good reason. But continue sticking your fingers in your ear and say la la la I don't hear you. You are wrong.

In 1944 and 1945 AA WAS that strong. Look at the numbers of Japanese planes shot down by ships. 

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6 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

Don't believe everything people post on the internet.  Especially on this forum.

no worries...:Smile_sceptic:

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9 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

In what alternate universe do CV's up tier well or are you a unicum CV player on your other account? Sling shot attacks are the only viable way to attack with a bottom tier CV and that really only works with DB's.

https://wows-numbers.com/player/526953200,El2aZeR/

Slingshot actually works with all plane types.

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

https://wows-numbers.com/player/526953200,El2aZeR/

Slingshot actually works with all plane types.

Am trying to learn. If you have a tier 6 CV, Are not the tier 8 CV planes more modern or am I wrong. I do not play CV's so I don't know. If they are more modern etc I was suggesting when a tier 6 CV is uptiered against tier 8 ships, it's AA and Airplanes should be upgraded to more modern planes to fit the tier.

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45 minutes ago, cronics said:

T10 AA is way out of control. There are just to many AA ships. t10 AA needs to be toned down and more CV players will start playing t8 - 10 CVs again You literally have to be a masochist to play a T8 cv........T10 is hell... Not as bad as T8 but still.... ill get some people in here would  say im somehow wrong. But the facts remain most CV players prefer lower tiers for a damn good reason. But continue sticking your fingers in your ear and say la la la I don't hear you. You are wrong.

What a laugh that post is.   AA is utterly underpowered at T10 .    CV players prefer lower tiers because they love being completely OP without ever facing any real opposition. 
 

bunch of Primadonnas entitled to damage farm  like BBs whenever they please without consequences or risks.

Edited by eviltane
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Tier IV has it hard because you got old biplanes against early WW2 AA. Tier VI is fine. Choose your targets carefully and you won't have any issues. That is a key that players say they do yet still say they are getting shredded.

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56 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

All CVs up-tier either decently or incredibly well. Assuming sufficient skill T8 CVs deal superbly with T10s, T6 CVs do perfectly fine against T8s and even T4 CVs murder T6s....

What is the benchmark for sufficient skill?

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3 hours ago, SkullDuggery05 said:

Am trying to learn. If you have a tier 6 CV, Are not the tier 8 CV planes more modern or am I wrong. I do not play CV's so I don't know. If they are more modern etc I was suggesting when a tier 6 CV is uptiered against tier 8 ships, it's AA and Airplanes should be upgraded to more modern planes to fit the tier.

Yes, there is a difference between T6 and T8 planes in speed, durability, ordinance and reserves.

What you're suggesting isn't necessarily wrong per se, I'm just noting that currently CVs do fine when up-tiered and that, more importantly, the tiering system is one of the ways WG makes money in this game. And WG likes making money, so they're unlikely to implement something that contradicts it, aka leads to them making less money.

 

3 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

And I have never been able to consistently execute it but then I am not an unicum.

Watching the range to target is crucial for a consistent result. You just need to figure out at what range you need to drop your slingshot and still be able to immediately chain an accurate attack afterwards. Once you got that down it's just a matter of practice.

For example Enterprise TBs can slingshot at 6km from a stationary target. Adjust downwards if the target is sailing away, adjust upwards if it is sailing towards you.

 

3 hours ago, Skpstr said:

What is the benchmark for sufficient skill?

A good WR assuming a sufficient number of battles played (usually 150+).

Generally speaking you should be able to:
- avoid flak completely no matter the amount
- choose good attack vectors and make accurate attacks
- know enemy AA strength and how many attacks you can get out of your squad against such
- provide fighter scouting
- manage your reserves
- know the common exploits (such as slingshot)
- not fall into noob traps (such as trying to provide fighter cover)

Edited by El2aZeR
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55 minutes ago, SkullDuggery05 said:

In 1944 and 1945 AA WAS that strong. Look at the numbers of Japanese planes shot down by ships. 

This is a game not real life and Wait till you get to tier 8 up against t10 and you will see just how bad it is .. t8 goes against T10 more often than not

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48 minutes ago, eviltane said:

What a laugh that post is.   AA is utterly underpowered at T10 .    CV players prefer lower tiers because they love being completely OP without ever facing any real opposition. 
 

bunch of Primadonnas entitled to damage farm  like BBs whenever they please without consequences or risks.

Well Said!

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20 minutes ago, cronics said:

This is a game not real life and Wait till you get to tier 8 up against t10 and you will see just how bad it is .. t8 goes against T10 more often than not

Have done it and any claims that "AA is too strong"  are vastly exaggerated.   Here is a hint:   You are not supposed to try and hide your planes in the black clouds.

Edited by eviltane
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56 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

What is the benchmark for sufficient skill?

 

40 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

A good WR assuming a sufficient number of battles played (usually 150+).

Generally speaking you should be able to:
- avoid flak completely no matter the amount
- choose good attack vectors and make accurate attacks
- know enemy AA strength and how many attacks you can get out of your squad against such
- provide fighter scouting
- manage your reserves
- know the common exploits (such as slingshot)
- not fall into noob traps (such as trying to provide fighter cover)

So in other words someone of your skill level who has turned the game into a spread sheet.

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2 hours ago, SkullDuggery05 said:

I can understand the frustration of CV players in tier 4,5, and 6 getting uptiered and having their planes shredded to pieces. I also feel for the noob playing tier 3,4 and 5 with under 10 Capt points going against Seal clubbing 19 pt CV players who take advantage of less exp players. CV players, It is historically true that older CV's FOUGHT AGAINST MORE MODERN SHIPS. USS Saratoga CV3 was comissioned in 1927 I believe but the difference was in ww2 Her AA and Airgroups had been upgraded. So If MM puts you in at tier 8 and your in a stock tier 6 CV the AA and Airgroups should be upgraded for that game. That would balance the CV to the tier it is playing. Just an idea.

Speaking from a realism PoV, that's the difference between carriers and other types of ships.  As long as the carrier is large enough (i.e. long enough flight deck, large enough elevators, tall enough hanger spaces, etc.), a carrier can be very easily upgraded just by giving it more modern planes.  Furthermore, some carriers might have the capability to be have these larger facilities refitted onto their ships.  After all, not all CVs that fought in WW2 were commissioned in the same condition that they possessed during WW2.

 

Now, speaking from an in game perspective, trying to balance the strength of a carrier's planes when it could be top tier (+2 tiers) or bottom tier (-2 tiers) is difficult.  I really wish that they'd add back in the odd numbered tiers, because I think that this could help out in this regard, since with the odd numbered tiers, it'd take less XP and thus less time to move from tier 8 to 9 than it would tier 8 to 10.  But for better or worse, I suspect that a big reason that we have even numbered tiers only with CVs is that only the US and Japanese navies (and maybe the RN) had enough carrier classes to fill out a full tech tree of carriers.

Another thing I kind of wish would happen would be that the tier 4 CVs were removed and tier 6 was the first tier at which carriers became available.  At the very least, at tier 5/6 you start seeing ships with a modicum of AA with which they can defend themselves.

 

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2 hours ago, eviltane said:

What a laugh that post is.   AA is utterly underpowered at T10 .    CV players prefer lower tiers because they love being completely OP without ever facing any real opposition. 
 

bunch of Primadonnas entitled to damage farm  like BBs whenever they please without consequences or risks.

Evil, Evil, Evil.  AA is not underpowered at tier 10.  Not by a long shot.  If anything, it's overpowered.

Carriers should have just as much damage production potential as same tier battleships.  But that just doesn't seem the case to me right now.  Right now, to me it feels like massively hard work just to match my CV's own HP in damage.

Even ignoring losses from AA, it takes a LOT longer for the carrier to "reload" its weapons and deliver them to the target (i.e. fly the next squadron out to the enemy).  Their DPM seems dreadfully low to me.  And then include AA into the mix, and a CV's DPM drops even further as you lose planes from a strike.

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15 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Evil, Evil, Evil.  AA is not underpowered at tier 10.  Not by a long shot.  If anything, it's overpowered.

Carriers should have just as much damage production potential as same tier battleships.  But that just doesn't seem the case to me right now.  Right now, to me it feels like massively hard work just to match my CV's own HP in damage.

Even ignoring losses from AA, it takes a LOT longer for the carrier to "reload" its weapons and deliver them to the target (i.e. fly the next squadron out to the enemy).  Their DPM seems dreadfully low to me.  And then include AA into the mix, and a CV's DPM drops even further as you lose planes from a strike.

Completely disagree potatoes can’t handle it but AA still utterly underpowered . 
 

I am done with CVs balancing decisions  being argued by how the lowest common denominators perform in them.    CVs  are terrible for this game and the entitlement of CV players to guaranteed damage Is atrocious.

Edited by eviltane
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