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World of Warships Comparison Test: Four-Way Heavy Cruiser Smackdown

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World of Warships Ship Comparisons

Four Way Heavy Cruiser Smackdown

 

Baltimore, Mogami, and Charles Martel vs. Albemarle

If they can catch you, they WILL kill you, and it WILL hurt

 

Now, since this is the first comparo that I’m doing in over 7 months, I will try and keep some things that I did, but you can expect a full reformat for this one. I will try and be as unbiased as possible, and use the rating scale that I used for my latest write up


 

Heavy cruisers are the backbone of any successful team, whether it be killing destroyers, harassing battleships, or standing their ground against their counterparts on the enemy team. At Tier 8, for this comparo, we’ll be putting them against each other to see which one is the best.

In the American corner, we have the formidable Baltimore. Being one of the original cruisers when the game was released, the Balti has changed quite a lot in the years following its arrival, even changing tiers, from Tier 9 to Tier 8. Still, it packs quite the toolkit and arsenal to make any ship jealous, despite its lack of torpedo armament. Speaking of torpedoes, the Mogami. It once made trouble,having had to compete with the N.O. Now, it’s making more trouble than it used to. The Mogami possesses a powerful broadside with it’s set of 10 8 inch guns, the largest number of guns found on any Tier 8 Heavy Cruiser, save Atago. While it lacks Baltimore’s toolkit, it has a massive torpedo arsenal that makes all others respect and envy it, and makes up for that lack of utility. The Charles Martel, on the other hand, has the middle ground between these two. With it’s signature silhouette, trademark Engine Boost and Reload Booster, and French 8 inch guns, it has the ability to mess up anyone’s day, for the most part. Finally, we arrive at the newcomer, the British Albemarle. Think of this as a Balti from across the pond, and you’ll have it right. It has the exact same layout as the Charles Martel, while also having guns similar to the Baltimore, with almost nothing missing, save radar. Speaking of missing, you might be wondering, where are the Hipper and the Amalfi? Well, when I compared them to these cruisers, they both got a solid trouncing, that’s all I’ll say about that. As for Atago and Eugen, they are both premiums, and, following my policy, I will not allow premium ships into tech-tree competitions. So, let’s get started.

 

Fourth Place: The Charles Martel ( 16 / 25 points )

Pros: Fast as hell, Reload Booster, concealment would humiliate most other ships, great guns.

Cons: All other ships in this comparo humiliate this thing in concealment, Slow without Engine Boost active, slow reload without Reload Booster, extremely squishy

 

Martel deserved better than last place, honestly. But I simply could not find any other way to place her higher. She’s a ship reliant upon her gimmicks to function as a whole, never mind teamplay. She does have some good points, to start off. Her guns are great, with a long range of 17.6 kilometers fully upgraded, a quick reload of 11 seconds, quick traverse rate, and a pretty good fire chance. The shell arcs, however, are somewhat poor at longer ranges, making leading targets difficult. She is also reliant upon her Main Battery Reload Booster in order to quickly dispatch targets, and while it does give her good burst damage, it lasts just 15 seconds, making her vulnerable when it’s deactivated. Her speed is also fairly good, with Engine Boost. Her stock speed of just 32 and a half knots puts her on the slower side of heavy cruisers. Her engine boost plus Sierra Mike brings her speed up to around 40 knots, but that’s for a very limited amount of time,  again making her vulnerable when her boost is off. Her AA is fairly decent, and she has Defensive AA in her second consumable slot, but she also has hydro, which is too good to pass up sometimes. The last thing, however, sealed her last place finish: her armor. She has just 25mm of plating, which all Ducky-botes ( and all equal or higher tier BBs ) can rip through. Add to this a lack of proper citadel protection, and, well, you feel like Emile Bertin at Tier V all over again. Even if light cruisers, such as Edinburgh, catch you broadside at point-blank ranges, you will receive a paddling of biblical proportions. Again, like I said, Martel deserves better, but there are so many better options, such as the next three.

 

Third Place: The Mogami ( 18 / 25 )

Pros: Stealth-torpedoes for days, Japanese HE and AP shells, agile, stealthy.

Cons: Only marginally less squishy than the Martel, mediocre damage per minute with 203mm guns, poor torpedo firing arcs

 

The Mogami deserved this. When they said that Japanese Cruisers would receive buffs, I imagined sunshine and rainbows and printed dev strike medals. Boy was I wrong. The Mogami benefits more from playing with the 155mm guns instead of the 203mm guns, as the guns, well, they kinda suck. They have a pretty short firing range, when compared to the Martel, and, while the ammo is pretty dang good, what with that fire chance and AP damage, the guns are somewhat inconsistent when I play against a whole selection of targets. I don’t know if it’s RNG or what. This thing couldn’t set consistent fires, or deal massive damage against broadside cruisers and battleships with her 203mm guns. Her torpedoes, on the other hand, really showed their merit. They are the same torpedoes found on the Kagero, with a 10 kilometer range and massive damage. On top of that, she can stealth torpedo when fully stealth-rigged, something only the Ibuki, Zao, and Minotaur can do properly besides her. However, she also has another fault here, with her rather poor firing arcs that force her to turn full broadside to launch both sets. While this is nothing new, this is an issue that is constantly repeated throughout the upper half of the Japanese heavy cruiser line, with the one exception in Atago/ARP Takao. Her agility and stealth show incredible potential, though. She’s fast, with 34.5 knots of speed, and she can throw herself around with best in class rudder shift time. Her best-in-class stealth of 9.6 kilometers when specced also shows itself here. Overall, however, she’s more mediocre than I expected. While she certainly has potential, I find it more with her 155mm option, as she throws out 15 shells instead of 10, and thus, boasts higher alpha and DPM with that option. You won’t be disappointed

 

Second Place: The Albemarle ( 21/25 )

Pros: LOL-Heal, Brilliant HE shells, Fairly good concealment for such a big thing, flexible torpedo armament.

Cons: Second-slowest reload of the quartet, pretty squishy, lacks some of Baltimore’s toolkit

 

No matter how hard I tried, I could not find something the Albemarle could do that the Baltimore wouldn’t simply just do better. Her main talking point is access to the same LOL-Heal that the Royal Navy Light Cruisers and Battleships, which can recover a colossal amount of HP, when used judiciously. However, and this is a big thing, she also has the same sort of squishiness that the Martel and Mogami have, where she has somewhat poorer plating and armor than the number one finisher in this comparo. Her citadel isn’t hideously large like some might have expected, but it’s still fairly large, and anyone with good enough aim will consistently nail it, otherwise she’s fairly solid here. Her armament isn’t a trifle point, either. She may have the second slowest reload of these four ships here, at 13 seconds, but her HE and AP shells pack a wallop that isn’t to be messed with. One good salvo on a broadside cruiser with that Armor Piercing at closer ranges, and that’s game. I said close ranges because at longer ranges, her shell speed drops quite fast, giving her rainbow arcs like the Americans, but that’s besides the point. She also boasts the signature British ability to single-launch torpedoes. She only has four per side, but they have a 10 kilometer range and pretty good damage. Her maneuverability is quite good. It’s not Martel levels, but remember, Martel needs to have Engine Boost active. Taking that out of the picture, her closest competitor is indeed Baltimore. Her stealth of 9.7 kilometers when fully built means that she can indeed sneak around. To be entirely honest, Albemarle deserved a first-place finish here. She boasts so many good traits, but she also lacks some, such as better plating, better rate of fire, and, oh, I don’t know, a Radar? 

 

First Place: The Baltimore ( 23 / 25 )

Pros: Can actually tank Battleship fire, American Piercing Shells, Radar, Hard-to-hit Citadel, Best-In-Class Rate of Fire,

Cons: No torpedoes, On the slower side, Allergic to 16 inch shells.

 

I will only say it once, and I will say it no more. There are many reasons why I chose the Baltimore to be first over the Albemarle, but I’ll be discussing only the chief ones. The first reason is primarily due to her tankiness. She has 27mm of bow armor, compared to the 25mm of all the other ships in this comparison, which allows her to resist the 380mm rifles found on many ships, such as the Bismarck-Class, Richelieu-Class, Monarch, Alsace-Class, and some of the lower Tier BBs that she’ll see. Her main weakness here is her allergy to 16-inch shells, which is found pretty much on every other battleship in her matchmaking spread. She also boasts a relatively difficult citadel to find, for cruisers, at least; Battleships will have no trouble citadeling her, but cruisers at medium ranges will have lots of trouble. And then there are the guns. Hoo-boy, where do I start on these 203mm/55 Mk15 guns. The HE isn’t the best, but she does get access to the MONSTROUS American Piercing shells, which not only boast better autobounce angles, but boast massive energy retention and a plunging fire arc that allows them to smash the insides of cruisers to bits. That being said, the shell velocity is quite poor, being worse than that of Albemarle, but she does make up for that with a rather quick reload of 10 seconds, the best for her tier, with all others anywhere from 1 second to 5 seconds slower. Her manueverability is also fairly good, with a tight turning circle of 730 meters and a fast rudder shift of 10.2 seconds, with her only downside being her 33 knot speed. Her stealth is pretty good, with 9.9 kilometer detection when specced for it. However, her main talking point is the signature 10 kilometer radar that comes standard with American Cruisers starting from Tier 8, and the same radar that all DD players dread. That is her main selling point. Albemarle does so many things right, such as having a Repair Party ( an amazing one, at that). But a Repair Party won’t save you when you don’t know a DD is coming around the corner at full speed, hoping to blitz you with a full set of torpedoes and end you there. Baltimore, on the other hand, knows your’e there, and he’s waiting, ready to kill you.

Pray he doesn’t come for your soul too.

 

Final Tally

Charles Martel

  • Armor: 3 / 5

  • Armaments: 4 / 5

  • AA: 3 / 5

  • Agility: 4 / 5

  • Stealth : 2 / 5

  • Total: 16 / 25

Verdict: Feels like a Half Baked Croissant

 

Mogami

  • Armor: 3 / 5

  • Armaments: 4 / 5

  • AA: 2 / 5

  • Agility: 4 / 5

  • Stealth : 5 / 5

  • Total: 18 / 25

Verdict: Could use some more armor and consistency

 

Albemarle

  • Armor: 4 / 5

  • Armaments: 4 / 5

  • AA : 4 / 5

  • Agility: 4 / 5

  • Stealth: 5 / 5

  • Total: 21 / 25

Verdict: Slightly off the mark

 

Baltimore

  • Armor: 5 / 5

  • Armaments: 5 / 5

  • AA: 5 / 5

  • Agility: 3 / 5

  • Stealth: 5 / 5

  • Total: 23 / 25

Verdict: Several Good things lead to one hell of a ship

 

And that’s a wrap. I know not all of you are going to agree with me, but I will honestly take it with a grain of salt. Feel free to comment, but do know I will still have my point of view. What is engrained upon this page is entombed for all time, nothing will change

 

Welp, that’s all folks

 

Peace

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1 hour ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

I kinda owe you guys this one, for being so late in delivering anything about comparison tests. Hope you enjoy!

-Shrayes

So glad you posted this so I don't have to quote the wall of text :-)

Just curious...how do you rate the Mogami in comparison to the others w/the 155s (also 10 second reload w/the Balti for best in tier btw...but doesn't have the calibur to classify it for the "heavy cruiser" smackdown title so we can let that slide).

Just curious as you kept bringing it up yourself (& I highly agree) that they are the better option for her...15 barrels of fire breathing madness & up close (not something you wanna do on a consistent basis mind you...getting up close to most anything but a DD as she is quite squishy) the AP does pack a wallop when you catch an unawares broadside cruiser coming around an island.

I run the double ruder shift & Adrenaline Rush on mine...follow DDs into caps & hydro out their DDs...showing full broadside at 1st (to lure everybody to aim at me & hopefully give our DD some breathing room for a volley or 2) then immediately kite away (keeping the steady 9 barrel/6 barrel staggered vollies locked on the DD at the fairly safe 60 degree angle) while tanking a bunch of damage to charge the AR early & seal their DDs fate then just burn & kite the rest of the battle (usually choosing the Yammy that charged my AR for me as the next target if no other DDs or radar cruisers are available for targets) easily dodging most everything that comes my way as I head out to my max range where even w/bad RNG the 15 barrels can always land at least a few hits & the double rudder just makes for consistent high potential damage battles.

Being a potato accounts for a 40% fail in those initial engagements but the other 60% were fun games...until I took a bunch of time off from the Mogami for tree grinds & had a very long stretch of losses in a row trying to get the old glory back...at 1 time it was 1 of only 2 ships (Fiji being the other 1) that had an above 60% win rate in over 100 battles played...that percentage had dropped drastically though...sigh.

...but I digress...anyway...how would you rate her w/the 155s...or is that a subject for a light cruiser comparison thread?

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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 Nice write up +1 . Play tier 8 games a lot and that Charles Martel is the most annoying ship to play against . It’s not the best cruiser as you said but it’s just annoying when played well . If your in a BB it just sits at range and peppers you with shells and it’s so hard to hit her back I call her the chicken of sea . It never seems to get in that range where you can get good shots on her all the while she is peppering you with HE . The ship makes me crazy sometimes .

6 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

I kinda owe you guys this one, for being so late in delivering anything about comparison tests. Hope you

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3 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Baltimore: has stealth radar

Playerbase: its USN so it is ok

Nevsky: has stealth radar

Playrbase: RUSSIAN BIAS

 

2 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

Nice analysis.

(USN bias ahoy!)

Well, not really biased. If the Albemarle had brought a radar or better plating to the test, it would have won 

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5 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

So glad you posted this so I don't have to quote the wall of text :-)

Just curious...how do you rate the Mogami in comparison to the others w/the 155s (also 10 second reload w/the Balti for best in tier btw...but doesn't have the calibur to classify it for the "heavy cruiser" smackdown title so we can let that slide).

Just curious as you kept bringing it up yourself (& I highly agree) that they are the better option for her...15 barrels of fire breathing madness & up close (not something you wanna do on a consistent basis mind you...getting up close to most anything but a DD as she is quite squishy) the AP does pack a wallop when you catch an unawares broadside cruiser coming around an island.

I run the double ruder shift & Adrenaline Rush on mine...follow DDs into caps & hydro out their DDs...showing full broadside at 1st (to lure everybody to aim at me & hopefully give our DD some breathing room for a volley or 2) then immediately kite away (keeping the steady 9 barrel/6 barrel staggered vollies locked on the DD at the fairly safe 60 degree angle) while tanking a bunch of damage to charge the AR early & seal their DDs fate then just burn & kite the rest of the battle (usually choosing the Yammy that charged my AR for me as the next target if no other DDs or radar cruisers are available for targets) easily dodging most everything that comes my way as I head out to my max range where even w/bad RNG the 15 barrels can always land at least a few hits & the double rudder just makes for consistent high potential damage battles.

Being a potato accounts for a 40% fail in those initial engagements but the other 60% were fun games...until I took a bunch of time off from the Mogami for tree grinds & had a very long stretch of losses in a row trying to get the old glory back...at 1 time it was 1 of only 2 ships (Fiji being the other 1) that had an above 60% win rate in over 100 battles played...that percentage had dropped drastically though...sigh.

...but I digress...anyway...how would you rate her w/the 155s...or is that a subject for a light cruiser comparison thread?

The 155s will come up when I compare the light cruisers at Tier 8, in keeping with historical context

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P.S

Next Review will be the Richelieu, releasing this Sunday, and the next comparison test will be a Tier 7 DD Battle

Mahan, Jervis, Minsk, Leberecht Maass and Gadjah Mada versus Vauqelin

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Albermarle suffers, in my disillusioned opinion after a spate of frustrating losses,

  1. from floaty shells arcs which are easily dodged at anything bu close range (sub 8 km)
  2. Armour that seems designed to guarantee a pen to whoever shoots at her from any angle, but especially, against the huge flat stern, which to be honest, seems to me to be artificially high. (Shipbuilding historians, feel free to correct me)
  3. Terrible hull agility, she turns, and accelerates, like molasses

All the above are self contradictory, does she fight at range and have limited effect as a firestarter versus (hopefully) stationary bbs or as a mid/close range cap and objective support ship?

I thought t7 Surrey was bad, but I am having a miserable day in Albermarle. I miss the t6  Devonshire.

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5 minutes ago, Frigate007 said:

Would be interesting to compare the main gun range of each, for the Albemarle its pretty short.

Range is not an issue (15.7km), even less once a spotter plane is sent up. The problem is with shell ballistics, slow and floaty, easily dodged at medium to long range. Baltimore has 15.8 km range, but much better and easier to predict shell ballistics. Mogami has 15.7 km range, and excellent shell ballistics.

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6 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Baltimore: has stealth radar

Playerbase: its USN so it is ok

Nevsky: has stealth radar

Playrbase: RUSSIAN BIAS

I don't agree with the constant moaning of "Russian Bias. " Most of the time people throw those words out when they think something is better than what they have. In this case though you're cherry picking your argument and mixing apples and oranges. 

First Nevsky is T10 and not comparable to Baltimore at T8 in any way. Talinn would be the one to compare. 

Second. Baltimore has a base detection of like 12.6 and it can minimize it to 9.9km. That gives it a 0.1km buffer, at absolute, best over its 10km radar. That's not really stealth radar. It would make no difference if its stealth was 10.1km. Baltimore can use it to radar as soon as he is detected, but by the time the player hits the button the DD will have spotted Balti.  The DD won't be too deep in and with human reaction times it can get himself out of range possibly before Balti can even slew the turrets around. That's why the left it where it is. 

Talinn (according to the Dev Blog) has a  base detection of 12.2. Its lower than Baltimore and has a longer range 12km radar. Without doing any math that leaves it with a stealth radar buffer of 2km or so. There's little opportunity for a DD to escape the radar.  It'll be about 2km deep when it spots the Talinn and will have to survive at that distance until the radar runs out. It can't escape. Honestly CLs will have a lot of trouble too. This makes no sense when they specifically (and correctly so) nerfed other cruiser radars to stop this from happening. The only good news is with a relatively slow reload, human reaction times, and short radar duration Talinn really probably can only get 1 to 2 shots in, but that doesn't account for the advertised high accuracy or help from the rest of the team.  That amount of stealth buffer on a cruiser radar is ridiculous. It's not an issue of bias. It's broken. I'm not that concerned about it though because I am pretty sure they will change it. 

Also, why does Nevsky, a larger CA built on an Admiral Hipper hull, have better stealth than the smaller Chapayev which is a CL? Personally, I think they should take the radar off of the Soviet CAs and leave that as a trait for the Soviet CLs. (I would also take it off of Stalingrad so Moskva has a special trait.) As it stands I don't see the benefit of the CLs at all give then stats they published on the CAs. 

I do think people are overacting to early Dev Blog stats, but the levels of stealth radar and some of the other stats that some of the proposed Soviet CAs have are absurd. 

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1 hour ago, Tzarevitch said:

I don't agree with the constant moaning of "Russian Bias. " Most of the time people throw those words out when they think something is better than what they have. In this case though you're cherry picking your argument and mixing apples and oranges. 

First Nevsky is T10 and not comparable to Baltimore at T8 in any way. Talinn would be the one to compare. 

Second. Baltimore has a base detection of like 12.6 and it can minimize it to 9.9km. That gives it a 0.1km buffer, at absolute, best over its 10km radar. That's not really stealth radar. It would make no difference if its stealth was 10.1km. Baltimore can use it to radar as soon as he is detected, but by the time the player hits the button the DD will have spotted Balti.  The DD won't be too deep in and with human reaction times it can get himself out of range possibly before Balti can even slew the turrets around. That's why the left it where it is. 

Talinn (according to the Dev Blog) has a  base detection of 12.2. Its lower than Baltimore and has a longer range 12km radar. Without doing any math that leaves it with a stealth radar buffer of 2km or so. There's little opportunity for a DD to escape the radar.  It'll be about 2km deep when it spots the Talinn and will have to survive at that distance until the radar runs out. It can't escape. Honestly CLs will have a lot of trouble too. This makes no sense when they specifically (and correctly so) nerfed other cruiser radars to stop this from happening. The only good news is with a relatively slow reload, human reaction times, and short radar duration Talinn really probably can only get 1 to 2 shots in, but that doesn't account for the advertised high accuracy or help from the rest of the team.  That amount of stealth buffer on a cruiser radar is ridiculous. It's not an issue of bias. It's broken. I'm not that concerned about it though because I am pretty sure they will change it. 

Also, why does Nevsky, a larger CA built on an Admiral Hipper hull, have better stealth than the smaller Chapayev which is a CL? Personally, I think they should take the radar off of the Soviet CAs and leave that as a trait for the Soviet CLs. (I would also take it off of Stalingrad so Moskva has a special trait.) As it stands I don't see the benefit of the CLs at all give then stats they published on the CAs. 

I do think people are overacting to early Dev Blog stats, but the levels of stealth radar and some of the other stats that some of the proposed Soviet CAs have are absurd. 

I was comparing the mechanics, not the ships themselves. Besides, Baltimore is a heavy cruiser, Talinn is a light cruiser. 

My point was not to compare the ships themselves (as that would be a long debate, not to mention a pointless one since the Russian cruisers are still in ST)

My point was that the playerbase is willing to accept anything overpowered as long as its flying an American flag, but as soon as it flies a Russian flag, all hell breaks lose.

And just a quick note:

Stealth radar is a (you either have it or you dont) mechanic, having a 2km buffer is not any different than having a 0.1km buffer, the whole point of the mechanic is that whatever spots you will be spotted back without fail, regardless of buffer.

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3 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

I was comparing the mechanics, not the ships themselves. Besides, Baltimore is a heavy cruiser, Talinn is a light cruiser. 

My point was not to compare the ships themselves (as that would be a long debate, not to mention a pointless one since the Russian cruisers are still in ST)

My point was that the playerbase is willing to accept anything overpowered as long as its flying an American flag, but as soon as it flies a Russian flag, all hell breaks lose.

And just a quick note:

Stealth radar is a (you either have it or you dont) mechanic, having a 2km buffer is not any different than having a 0.1km buffer, the whole point of the mechanic is that whatever spots you will be spotted back without fail, regardless of buffer.

I'm not sure that the playerbase will accept an overpowered ship just because it is flying the American flag. Players do definitely have a tendency to be ok with overpowered so long as they have and like the ship though, and players on the NA server do tend to prefer USN ships. The only overpowered American ships I can think of were premiums and they were limited availability. I'm still mystified at how Benham was allowed out. It can basically keep chucking torps out by alternating sides nonstop so fast that subpar gunpower almost doesn't matter.  Black and Flint were overpowered in their day but they have been powercrept into being reasonable now (and are a lot more available), and there was a lot of howling about them back then. Other than those I can't think of any others that I would call overpowered. Enterprise got removed but it isn't OP. It's fighter consumable is probably too big and its AP bombs can really wreck select ships but it isn't that much different than Lexington or Shokaku. 

Talinn is a CA not a CL. It's guns are a bit smaller than the average CA, but it's the CA line replacement for Chapayev. 

The reason they called it "stealth radar" was because of the ability to trap a DD. The stealth comes in because they could sucker a DD far inside radar range and leave it with no chance to counter or escape. 0.1km is nothing. That's too small for human reaction time to really do anything. By the time the cruiser triggers radar and slews the turrets around the DD can get out if he tries. It is still useful because the cruiser player knows to radar immediately whenever he is spotted and he can't see what is spotting him, but that is not what wargaming cared about when they nerfed stealth radars. They were specifically trying to stop the USN CLs (and Wichita) with stealth ratings close to 9 from using that 1km buffer to ambush DDs with no chance for the DD to escape. They don't care about Baltimore's 9.9km anymore than if it was 10.1km. It's not stealthy enough to really lay a trap. 

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1 hour ago, Tzarevitch said:

I'm not sure that the playerbase will accept an overpowered ship just because it is flying the American flag. Players do definitely have a tendency to be ok with overpowered so long as they have and like the ship though, and players on the NA server do tend to prefer USN ships. The only overpowered American ships I can think of were premiums and they were limited availability. I'm still mystified at how Benham was allowed out. It can basically keep chucking torps out by alternating sides nonstop so fast that subpar gunpower almost doesn't matter.  Black and Flint were overpowered in their day but they have been powercrept into being reasonable now (and are a lot more available), and there was a lot of howling about them back then. Other than those I can't think of any others that I would call overpowered. Enterprise got removed but it isn't OP. It's fighter consumable is probably too big and its AP bombs can really wreck select ships but it isn't that much different than Lexington or Shokaku. 

Talinn is a CA not a CL. It's guns are a bit smaller than the average CA, but it's the CA line replacement for Chapayev. 

The reason they called it "stealth radar" was because of the ability to trap a DD. The stealth comes in because they could sucker a DD far inside radar range and leave it with no chance to counter or escape. 0.1km is nothing. That's too small for human reaction time to really do anything. By the time the cruiser triggers radar and slews the turrets around the DD can get out if he tries. It is still useful because the cruiser player knows to radar immediately whenever he is spotted and he can't see what is spotting him, but that is not what wargaming cared about when they nerfed stealth radars. They were specifically trying to stop the USN CLs (and Wichita) with stealth ratings close to 9 from using that 1km buffer to ambush DDs with no chance for the DD to escape. They don't care about Baltimore's 9.9km anymore than if it was 10.1km. It's not stealthy enough to really lay a trap. 

Where do I even begin..

I am going quickly summarize balance. The amount of overpowered American ships far out number that of any other nation. Benham isnt one of them, and neither is Flint nor Black. 

The community as a whole doesnt understand balancing, people think that Stalingrad, one of the worst T10s is overpowered while completely ignoring ships like Grozovoi.

Same with the USN ships, Enterprise was removed because it was the most powerful ship tier for tier in the game, no exceptions.

To give you an idea, even the most overpowered surface ships like Belfast and Gremmy would be absolute garbage in comparison. Enterprise is a Tier 8 that can easily murder Tier 10s without taking a single point of damage.

The definition of a light cruiser is a ship with guns between 150 and 203, and Talinn with 180 by definition is a light cruiser.

Another example would be Shiratsuyu, this destroyer is in the Akizuki line, yet it is extremely similar to Akatsuki and nothing like the IJN gun boats.

Finally, you got the strength of the stealth radar (and why its overpowered) wrong. Stealth radar is not about shooting the enemy DD, stealth radar is about keeping vision control. If the DD runs away out of your radar range, that means you are dark, and vision control is what actually matters. A ship with stealth radar cannot be fought against without taking casualty in return, hence why it have complete vision dominance and is considered a unfair mechanic.

Edited by DolphinPrincess

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5 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

I was comparing the mechanics, not the ships themselves. Besides, Baltimore is a heavy cruiser, Talinn is a light cruiser. 

My point was not to compare the ships themselves (as that would be a long debate, not to mention a pointless one since the Russian cruisers are still in ST)

My point was that the playerbase is willing to accept anything overpowered as long as its flying an American flag, but as soon as it flies a Russian flag, all hell breaks lose.

And just a quick note:

Stealth radar is a (you either have it or you dont) mechanic, having a 2km buffer is not any different than having a 0.1km buffer, the whole point of the mechanic is that whatever spots you will be spotted back without fail, regardless of buffer.

The difference is you have a lot more time to react to a 0.1 km buffer space vs a 2km buffer space.  You can escape a .1km a lot easier than a 2km zone.  Sure the result of being spotted at the same time is the same but you will take significantly more focus fire in a stealth radar zone of 2km than the latter.  This is what has people up in arms over the russuan ship stats released.  The reaction would be no different if WG decided to release a ship with such capabilities under a different nation besides russian. 

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Out of all the tier VIII tech-tree heavies, I solidly prefer the Hipper.  It's not the best at anything (other than maybe toughness), but it's good enough at almost everything.

I prefer it to the point that I used accumulated doubloons to buy Prinz Eugen so I could get a variation on the Hipper

 

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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16 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Baltimore: has stealth radar

Playerbase: its USN so it is ok

Nevsky: has stealth radar

Playrbase: RUSSIAN BIAS

Not really a viable comparison for you to make.  The difference between Baltimore's best detection and her radar range is ~100m.  That's nothing compared to Nevsky's multi-kilometer zone of stealth radar potential.

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The best one is the one you feel comfortable in and win the most in. For me it is the Amalfi. I skipped the concealment mod and went for full rudder shift. You then have the fastest tier VIII CA  that turns like a DD. At long range with her laser beam guns there is no CA that can hit her consistently.  She is not a brawler but can consistently lay on the alpha damage. I will say that one on one she might have trouble with any other CA at mid range or less but this is the ship I win in. Oh yeah, almost forgot, she have great smoke once you learn how to use it.  I just don't fear the slow shells of the Baltimore or the Brits as I can turn before they get to me. Only ship I like as much as the Amalfi is the Mogami with the six inch guns option. Each to his own likes. 

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4 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Out of all the tier VIII tech-tree heavies, I solidly prefer the Hipper.  It's not the best at anything (other than maybe toughness), but it's good enough at almost everything.

I prefer it to the point that I used accumulated doubloons to buy Prinz Eugen so I could get a variation on the Hipper

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, handybilly said:

The best one is the one you feel comfortable in and win the most in. For me it is the Amalfi. I skipped the concealment mod and went for full rudder shift. You then have the fastest tier VIII CA  that turns like a DD. At long range with her laser beam guns there is no CA that can hit her consistently.  She is not a brawler but can consistently lay on the alpha damage. I will say that one on one she might have trouble with any other CA at mid range or less but this is the ship I win in. Oh yeah, almost forgot, she have great smoke once you learn how to use it.  I just don't fear the slow shells of the Baltimore or the Brits as I can turn before they get to me. Only ship I like as much as the Amalfi is the Mogami with the six inch guns option. Each to his own likes. 

I will disagree with neither of you. I like both the Amalfi and the Hipper. It's just that their inconsistency against even their stablemates really put me off. Charles Martel, for example, can constantly set fires or deal massive burst damage, or even out-run DDs. The reason why the Martel came last was because it was too gimmick-reliant to perform properly, which put me off there as well

I'm not saying that Hipper and Amalfi are bad, it's just that these four ships just did something better. 

Also, did I mention that both these ships have such bad concealment values, even when fully rigged, they make the worst-in-test Martel look like HMS Minotaur by comparison ( 11.35 for Amalfi and 11.17 for Hipper versus 10.74 for Martel, not to mention that the top three finishers in this test boast better than 10km concealment )

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And jeezus, Tzar and Dolphin, that's a lot of text over an issue that I really didn't touch upon here at all in the review. I just stated that the Baltimore won because it brought the ability to expose overextended Destroyers and send them to port; I never said anything about stealth radar at all.

holy mother of RNJesus

edit: And i'm sorry if I seem a bit upset over this, but stealth radar is an issue that was resolved recently. If WeeGee has any sense, they won't do this with the Tallinn, Riga, Petropavlovsk, or Alexsander Nevsky, or they will just give these new ships American Radars with 10km of range to compensate for the absurd stealth

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula

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