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BCGrog

They want to "Re-balance" the Unique Upgrades

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This is triggering my PTSD.

As far as I'm concerned, the original T10's were power crept by all the new ships a long time ago and I was under the impression they brought them out to help re-revitalize them.

I'm very suspicious of this. After the brutal grinds for each one, I am worried they will neuter them. 

If they want to buff them further, great. But don't nerf them at all. I haven't heard anyone complain that any of the original T10's became OP after getting their UU's. 

I guess I'm having trust issues...

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A number of UU are worthless and in need of rebalancing while others are a straight up upgrade over the stock options. They were originally advertised as sidegrades, ways to offer a slightly different playstyle over the normal arrangement.

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The major concern that should arise from this move, when combined with the LM/UUs being locked behind the regrind wall in NTC/RB, is that they will eventually become exactly what NTC was first announced as -- game-breaking upgrades that force players to engage with the onerous Regrind Bureau in order to keep their ships competitive in PVP. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, BCGrog said:

This is triggering my PTSD.

As far as I'm concerned, the original T10's were power crept by all the new ships a long time ago and I was under the impression they brought them out to help re-revitalize them.

I'm very suspicious of this. After the brutal grinds for each one, I am worried they will neuter them. 

If they want to buff them further, great. But don't nerf them at all. I haven't heard anyone complain that any of the original T10's became OP after getting their UU's. 

I guess I'm having trust issues...

There is probably going to be a lot of controversy over this … 

Considering the effort players put in, WG should not take anything away and only add/change the ones that don't work or have become irrelevant 

 

But, as you say ... this is WG :) 

Edited by Commander_367

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11 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

The major concern that should arise from this move, when combined with the LM/UUs being locked behind the regrind wall in NTC/RB, is that they will eventually become exactly what NTC was first announced as -- game-breaking upgrades that force players to engage with the onerous Regrind Bureau in order to keep their ships competitive in PVP. 

 

 

Proof that WG only appears to "give in" when players raise heck. WG in the end always does what they want.

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8 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

The major concern that should arise from this move, when combined with the LM/UUs being locked behind the regrind wall in NTC/RB, is that they will eventually become exactly what NTC was first announced as -- game-breaking upgrades that force players to engage with the onerous Regrind Bureau in order to keep their ships competitive in PVP. 

Yeah, I really don't want to have to go to RB for an upgrade … one grind is bad enough - most of us hate the idea of re-grinding!

Remember, it's called an "upgrade" not a "downgrade" and it's no different than putting on flags or T2 consumables to buff your ship or make it more effective in it's role

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1 minute ago, Commander_367 said:

Yeah, I really don't want to have to go to RB for an upgrade … one grind is bad enough - most of us hate the idea of re-grinding!

Remember, it's called an "upgrade" not a "downgrade" and it's no different than putting on flags or T2 consumables to buff your ship or make it more effective in it's role

There isn't an upgrade they are going to offer that's worth regrinding those lines. Why bother?

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1 minute ago, Commander_367 said:

Yeah, I really don't want to have to go to RB for an upgrade … one grind is bad enough - most of us hate the idea of re-grinding!

Remember, it's called an "upgrade" not a "downgrade" and it's no different than putting on flags or T2 consumables to buff your ship or make it more effective in it's role

There's upgrade, and then there's upgrade

If I run with no signals and no improved consumables, my ship is still competitive, and any disadvantage created is more than overcome if I somehow manage to play competently and outplay my opponent. 

The worry, IMO, is that these or some future upgrades locked inside the Regrind Bureau become so advantageous that playing without them is a significant disadvantage. 

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1 minute ago, _Caliph_ said:

There isn't an upgrade they are going to offer that's worth regrinding those lines. Why bother?

Exactly, there has to be a reason or incentive to do what they're asking us to do … 

In my case, it would have to be 72 virgins and a year round pass to Disneyland :) 

 

Ain't gonna happen and I want nothing to do with it … 

The only thing they can do is piss off players who already have the upgrades by nerfing them lol 

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I have some sympathy for WG on this one.  If I understand it correctly, the design goal with the unique upgrades is to provide an optional, slightly different playstyle that is neither better nor worse than not using the upgrade.  That's a razor-thin target to hit.  Make the upgrade too powerful and it becomes practically mandatory for competitive play (a few of the current upgrades are like this).  Make it too weak and nobody will use it at all (several of the current upgrades are like this).  Tough to hit that target right in the middle.

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8 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

There's upgrade, and then there's upgrade

If I run with no signals and no improved consumables, my ship is still competitive, and any disadvantage created is more than overcome if I somehow manage to play competently and outplay my opponent. 

The worry, IMO, is that these or some future upgrades locked inside the Regrind Bureau become so advantageous that playing without them is a significant disadvantage. 

These upgrades have been around for a long time = status quo 

There is nothing to be gained by nerfing them - just improve the ones that nobody uses

I would argue that WG does plenty of other things that potentially "breaks" the game lol 

 

I usually end my posts by saying "Bring on the Subs" :)

Edited by Commander_367

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4 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

I have some sympathy for WG on this one.  If I understand it correctly, the design goal with the unique upgrades is to provide an optional, slightly different playstyle that is neither better nor worse than not using the upgrade.  That's a razor-thin target to hit.  Make the upgrade too powerful and it becomes practically mandatory for competitive play (a few of the current upgrades are like this).  Make it too weak and nobody will use it at all (several of the current upgrades are like this).  Tough to hit that target right in the middle.

And I think there'd be a lot more sympathy and a lot less suspicion if they weren't doing the "rebalance" as a follow-up to locking them away inside the Regrind Bureau. 

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Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

And I think there'd be a lot more sympathy and a lot less suspicion if they weren't doing the "rebalance" as a follow-up to locking them away inside the Regrind Bureau. 

I think we all know enough by now to fear the word "rebalance" 

Rhymes with "stork" :)

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I have one major beef with the UU going to the RB. WG wants more people playing T10. Player base wants experienced players in these t10 matches.

The real benefit to the mission method of UU was you had to play around 80 games in a t10 to earn the UU. In that process a player learned how to play high tier matches, and learned the ship, her strengths, weakness, etc, and how the UU will affect the play style of said ship. When you earn an UU you can decide if it fits your play style for the ship. With the RB you won't be playing the t10 instead regrinding ships in the line, and not learning high tier play or the t10 ship play.

For the most part the UU were downgrades. Sure Zao was a pretty big upgrade. I like Monty and Henry. Some love the DM but that range kills me. Hindi is tanky. Most I have but don't use. The t10s are strong enough as is without UU. I don't see myself RB to a UU unless it's Zao level awesome, and I doubt there will be any of those.

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Since most of them right now are crap I expect this to be a buff to them overall. There are a few right now that are a clear improvement and I expect those will be left alone. 

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1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

The major concern that should arise from this move, when combined with the LM/UUs being locked behind the regrind wall in NTC/RB, is that they will eventually become exactly what NTC was first announced as -- game-breaking upgrades that force players to engage with the onerous Regrind Bureau in order to keep their ships competitive in PVP. 

 

 

Was there EVER any doubt they would find a way to put all that :etc_swear: in the players CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCABLY told them we didn't want when NTC was announced? Who REALLY thought we had got them to abandon it for good?

This is WG. They will do what they want period; eventually. 

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57 minutes ago, Commander_367 said:

Exactly, there has to be a reason or incentive to do what they're asking us to do … 

In my case, it would have to be 72 virgins and a year round pass to Disneyland :) 

 

Ain't gonna happen and I want nothing to do with it … 

The only thing they can do is piss off players who already have the upgrades by nerfing them lol 

No, ow, stop, don't 72X's? No thanks. :Smile_hiding:

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16 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

No, ow, stop, don't 72X's? No thanks. :Smile_hiding:

Yeah, you're right - 72 virgins is actually a helluva lot of work in addition to the RB grind … 

What was I thinking!

Edited by Commander_367
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2 hours ago, BCGrog said:

As far as I'm concerned, the original T10's were power crept by all the new ships a long time ago and I was under the impression they brought them out to help re-revitalize them.

What gave you that impression that the legendary were to deal with power creep and what "original" ships were power crept by what? 

there was no haragumo / daring / kremlin when those upgrades were tested or released .   

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considering they are planing on gating them behind bureau  odds are they will be buffed to encourage people to reset the tech trees

 

all i want is GK with this:

-40% to secondary battery loading time.

secondary guns become manual, main guns become automatic and aim to the closest enemy (can be activated/deactivated with "P")

 

imagin that, main guns wont do much due to questionable AI but when enemy gets within secondary range all hell will break loose, it will make smolenks look balance :Smile_teethhappy: 

Edited by pepe_trueno

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11 hours ago, BCGrog said:

After the brutal grinds for each one

Really? I find them pretty easy.

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Shimakaze's legendary module was IJN-hate coded hard to the point of it being useless. 

83ce948166a598c00b08fb558b07f224.gif

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53 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Shimakaze's legendary module was IJN-hate coded hard to the point of it being useless. 

83ce948166a598c00b08fb558b07f224.gif

One thing I can't remember: Did the old aiming mod give a 20% bonus to traverse? With the 9.1.0 revisions both it and the new torp mod do. If it didn't before, the Shima's UU may now be almost-kinda-vaguely worth running with the offset to the penalty it imposes.

The fact that your torp tubes fall apart if someone sneezes on the same side of the map you're on is lousy (primarily because it means a reset to the reload timer), but the traverse being so hideously slow meant not only could you not maneuver when launching (which is bad enough), but even adjusting point of aim to lay a proper spread took long enough to make doing it less effective. If the 20% wasn't on the old aiming mod, it may be worth mounting it and checking again. If it was, there's no point and the UU for Shima remains in "You could, but why bother?" territory, much like the Z's.

Edited by Pomme_de_Terroriste

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Just now, Pomme_de_Terroriste said:

One thing I can't remember: Did the old aiming mod give a 20% bonus to traverse? Both the new one and the new torp mod do. If it didn't, the Shima's UU may now be almost-kinda-vaguely worth running with the offset to the penalty it imposes.

The fact that your torp tubes fall apart if someone sneezes on the same side of the map you're on is lousy (primarily because it means a reset to the reload timer), but the traverse being so hideously slow meant not only could you not maneuver when launching (which is bad enough), but even adjusting point of aim to lay a proper spread took long enough to make doing it less effective. If the 20% wasn't on the old aiming mod, it may be worth mounting it and checking again. If it was, there's no point and the UU for Shima remains in "You could, but why bother?" territory, much like the Z's.

Don't matter if it did. Shima's legendary module is glitched. Period. Even when ship stands still and mouse is not moving at all and torps have slewed to where mouse points and mouse has sat there untouched for several minutes, the torps will not fire 90% of the time. This was tested using voice attack to issue the fire command (not touching mouse). 

Its IJN. Therefore WG has to hate-code it into useless trash. Oh its bugged/glitched? WG gives a rat's anus about it. 

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