Question about submarine meta play

[Zilla]

It's an elephant in the room.

If I may ask, how does WG plan to make it fair when the following scenario plays out ( and it will ).

Team A and Team B have 2 subs, 2 DDs and one light cruiser on their respective teams. No CVs in this match. Team A's DDs go for caps and get blapped after about 5 minutes. Team A's light cruiser gets blapped shortly after. All they have left are BBs, heavy cruisers and a sub. Question is this: How can they now engage and destroy the Team B's sub? Are they at the mercy of the enemy sub? What is the plan?

I understand it's a work in progress and much is to be done and tested. You know this situation will happen more often than not. What's the plan/idea you guys have?

If that situation happens even a potato like me could dominate in a sub.

Thank you for responding WG!

[Lord_Slayer]

if memory serves from watching Sub test server Gameplay via Youtube and Twitch, the subs could be spotted at periscope depth and could be hit by HE shells from BBs and CAs.

Given the low health of a sub and the damage a large shell could cause, a sub may only need a salvo to be taken out.

That is at least what I recall from seeing those streams.

[CylonRed]

They are not going to respond to specific scenarios or they will only when they are about to be released.  Any player here will only be guessing and that is not productive imho.

[Tzarevitch]

1 hour ago, CylonRed said:

hHey are not going to respond to specific scenarios or they will only when they are about to be released.  Any player here will only be guessing and that is not productive imho.

^ I was going to say the same thing. The sub-thing is in such flux at this point there really is no benefit to speculating right now. Everything may change with the next iteration they test. 

[CylonRed]

2 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

^ I was going to say the same thing. The sub-thing is in such flux at this point there really is no benefit to speculating right now. Everything may change with the next iteration they test. 

Especially since it has changed once.  The OP mentioned seeing videos but if they are the original videos when subs were originally tested - that play style is no longer valid as they have made changes since then.    If the OP saw the 2nd set of videos - all of that could change again. 

[Asym_KS]

1 hour ago, Zilla said:

It's an elephant in the room.

If I may ask, how does WG plan to make it fair when the following scenario plays out ( and it will ).

Team A and Team B have 2 subs, 2 DDs and one light cruiser on their respective teams. No CVs in this match. Team A's DDs go for caps and get blapped after about 5 minutes. Team A's light cruiser gets blapped shortly after. All they have left are BBs, heavy cruisers and a sub. Question is this: How can they now engage and destroy the Team B's sub? Are they at the mercy of the enemy sub? What is the plan?

I understand it's a work in progress and much is to be done and tested. You know this situation will happen more often than not. What's the plan/idea you guys have?

If that situation happens even a potato like me could dominate in a sub.

Thank you for responding WG!

Talk about the Large Animal in the room:  What happen when you have subs, Carriers and several radar ships?  

How would a DD be able to conduct ASW alone?  Since DD's can't survive planes alone, does that mean an entire TF will have to stop what it is doing and run over "that'a way" to chase a sub?  This whole concept of "dissimilar" weapons is destroying this game....  Carriers, Radar and now Subs are all dissimilar because they have no direct remediation.....   WHAT you say?! 

Carriers are the last ships to survive almost every game I've been in, COOP or Randoms.   AA can degrade planes BUT, almost every game I've played, after all of the changes, there are always planes to kill the last DD, the last ship.

Radar eliminates  "Stealth" 100% of the time and does not have a counter.    Now, if we were to add Chaff, or jamming for DD's; that, would be another story.

And Subs, ah........here we go again, because there are two possibilities:  the Kiddie versions we've seen before that really aren't subs and the real versions, that run silent and deep that would require a DD to use ASW tactics to force it to surface and to kill it........and, let's not forget "guided torpedoes" that seem to be a big question mark at the moment???? 

Put all three dissimilar weapons on a small, time compressed map and this game ceases to be even fun anymore.....  It's bad enough as it is and a great many of us have rejected this nonsense and are playing less, spending nothing and play in scenarios and COOP..... 

FAIR and Plan?  That's simple to answer: after the Cruiser Line Split, Update 8.0 and the PR nightmare:  there is one plan:  make money no matter the quality and if our host makes the money they expect, that's fair......  After all, they really don't need us anyway from what I have seen these past two + years.....

 

[Jakob_Knight]

1 hour ago, Zilla said:

 

If I may ask, how does WG plan to make it fair when the following scenario plays out ( and it will ).

Team A and Team B have 2 subs, 2 DDs and one light cruiser on their respective teams. No CVs in this match. Team A's DDs go for caps and get blapped after about 5 minutes. Team A's light cruiser gets blapped shortly after. All they have left are BBs, heavy cruisers and a sub. Question is this: How can they now engage and destroy the Team B's sub? Are they at the mercy of the enemy sub? What is the plan?

 

 

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

1 hour ago, Zilla said:

It's an elephant in the room.

If I may ask, how does WG plan to make it fair when the following scenario plays out ( and it will ).

Team A and Team B have 2 subs, 2 DDs and one light cruiser on their respective teams. No CVs in this match. Team A's DDs go for caps and get blapped after about 5 minutes. Team A's light cruiser gets blapped shortly after. All they have left are BBs, heavy cruisers and a sub. Question is this: How can they now engage and destroy the Team B's sub? Are they at the mercy of the enemy sub? What is the plan?

I understand it's a work in progress and much is to be done and tested. You know this situation will happen more often than not. What's the plan/idea you guys have?

If that situation happens even a potato like me could dominate in a sub.

Thank you for responding WG!

Now granted Halloween events use extremely overpowered versions ships so it can’t entirely be an accurate portrayal of new game mechanics Wargaming might be beta testing to review for use in the main game. But that being said the Halloween subs they had couple years ago had underwater detection ranges beyond minimum assured detection ranges of ships and if at periscope depth you would be detected out to like 5 or 6km which was the threshold for any effective torpedo attacks with your sub often needing to be even closer than that to score hits. And the torpedo ranges were only 8km, but you would be hard pressed to score hits that far out.

So if WG keeps the detection/ attack range ratio in place, then arms not only DDs, but also CLs and CAs with depth charges in addition to their normal weapons and consumables you could see subs countered. And while BBs did not typically carry depth charges, they were technically capable of doing so.

And that would be if the subs were submerged, if they are ever caught in the surface they will face brutal firestorms from every weapon that can be brought to bear on them. The machine guns and cannon on aircraft were known to be able to do a number on the hull of a sub, even if not sinking it they could still do some painful damage as subs only typically had pressure hulls and no armor. So you can imagine what secondary guns would do to a sub let alone what a main guns would do to them.

It’s the short ranged attacks and the vulnerability of subs that makes me think they might actually be able to have more balance than CVs. I also predict that like CVs subs will be more of a weekend and holiday weapon since the bread and butter of subs will be clueless campers or ships wandering around alone which you will see more on weekends. On the other hand during the weekdays you will see typically smarter players, teamwork more often, and if you try attacking a convoy of ships that can focus their attacks against the subs then the sub will be far less successful. Just like when during the week players typically carry more AA upgrades, know how to take evasive action, and combine each other’s AA to make it harder for CVs.

[Slimeball91]

2 hours ago, Zilla said:

Question is this: How can they now engage and destroy the Team B's sub?

As someone else has already pointed out all ships (and planes) can shoot subs at periscope depth.  Subs can now attack each other as well, or they could in the last round of testing.  Looking at the changes in testing thus far it seems to me subs were too vulnerable and that's likely why WG removed subs having to surface.  In the last round of test WG also removed CVs, I believe they did that because it was childishly easy for CVs to troll subs, and it was skewing the test results.  From what we've seen so far countering subs doesn't seem to be a problem.