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clammboy

Meaning of random

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Random : Made , done , happing , or chosen without method or conscious decision .

I don't understand how a game mode called Random can allow a clan division of 3 players to quere into a game then allow another clan with 2 players to division up in the same game all on headsets talking and coordinating with each other . 

This means one person can division up with the 2 best players in his clan and the other with the best player in his clan all coordinated and talking with each other .

While the other team is really a random team where nobody knows each other . Everyone knows if you division up your win rate goes up but it's not right if your going to call it a random game .

Now everyone is going to say division up yourself then but that's not the point . The point is these are not random games people are boosting the odds in there favor considerably please change the name .

I totally understand people wanting to play with friends and people wanting to play with good players they can trust but that is not random . It's kind of joke and misleading .

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, TwoLate51 said:

yes but is it not random chance that you will get a div against you with unicum players.

Doesn't matter you change the odds if you can pick the players you are playing with its not random . It's not about how good the players from the clan are it's about the fact that it's not random .

Edited by clammboy
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Come on  @Navalpride33  that's not helping anything . I take your post seriously and try and have a discussion with you about them I don't really know with this is but thanks .

Edited by clammboy

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8 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Come on  @Navalpride33  that's not helping anything . I take your post seriously and try and have a discussion with you about them I don't really know with this is but thanks .

In a sense, I was trying to be lighthearted on the situation because in the end... Its not going to be changed anytime soon...

MM in a DIV situation, tries to pair up with others DIV for the red team.. DIV is a double edge sword... Does it complicate things in random? Yup

At the same time I can seek repose in knowing, the next game will not be like this one.

Edited by Navalpride33

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   They should randomly choose a ship for you put you in a random tier and put a random captain on it with random modules, flags, consumables and upgrades too. I mean if they are going to do it they should go all the way. 

Edited by Alabamastan
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5 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

In a sense, I was trying to be lighthearted on the situation because in the end... Its not going to be changed anytime soon...

MM in a DIV situation, tries to pair up with others DIV for the red team.. DIV is a double edge sword... Does it complicate things in random? Yup

At the same time I can seek repose in knowing, the next game will not be like this one.

Agreed but the fact is that if you can pick out who your playing with it's not Random just change the name then . People think it's really random when the deck is stacked against them by divisions that then gloat about wining in 3 minutes well big deal you had a huge advantage against a team who don't know each other stop calling it random !!!!!.

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1 minute ago, Alabamastan said:

   They should randomly chose a ship for you put you in a random tier and put a random captain on it with random modules, flags, consumables and upgrades too. I mean if they are going to do it they should go all the way. 

That's not random that's balanced . I'm not asking for balanced .

Edited by clammboy
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clammboy, I hear you. I will admit our group divisions alot. It does help tremendously. I suppose for a couple reasons some you have already mentioned, we promote it.

It helps our members familiarize themselves with each other.

It is fun to div especially with voice coms.

In it's defense, it helps when you end up on the short end of the stick with a less than desirable trend with mm. 

The last one I mentioned is why I support it. 

I don't have any suggestions off the top of my head. Is there something you think might be available for clans that want to div? Maybe a new option besides Coop and Random?

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2 hours ago, clammboy said:

Random : Made , done , happing , or chosen without method or conscious decision .

I don't understand how a game mode called Random can allow a clan division of 3 players to quere into a game then allow another clan with 2 players to division up in the same game all on headsets talking and coordinating with each other

This means one person can division up with the 2 best players in his clan and the other with the best player in his clan all coordinated and talking with each other .

While the other team is really a random team where nobody knows each other . Everyone knows if you division up your win rate goes up but it's not right if your going to call it a random game .

Now everyone is going to say division up yourself then but that's not the point . The point is these are not random games people are boosting the odds in there favor considerably please change the name .

I totally understand people wanting to play with friends and people wanting to play with good players they can trust but that is not random . It's kind of joke and misleading .

Picky, Picky, Picky we are........  And, isn't the entire game a "cooperative shooter".....  So, they are "cooperating" and that is the intent  !  Now, you could cooperate as well and then, it's a non-random Random match without a Random distribution of non Randomly chosen ships which were never Randomly drawn in the first place; nor, is there a "Random Distribution of player skills anymore" so, the outcomes of the non-Random Random matches are actually a binary set of metrics: stomp or be stomped of late......  Whew !  I am glad we cleared that up....!

Of course, i don't play Random matches at all because they really aren't in any way, shape or form Random !  And, they have digressed into a binary outcome that has long since been rejected as anything near fun....  Any math majors out there: is a Random-Number-Generator actually random in it's existence?  After all, there is "systemic order" in all RNG's so...............anyway, good post and is a fun thought....  :Smile_teethhappy:

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6 hours ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

clammboy, I hear you. I will admit our group divisions alot. It does help tremendously. I suppose for a couple reasons some you have already mentioned, we promote it.

It helps our members familiarize themselves with each other.

It is fun to div especially with voice coms.

In it's defense, it helps when you end up on the short end of the stick with a less than desirable trend with mm. 

The last one I mentioned is why I support it. 

I don't have any suggestions off the top of my head. Is there something you think might be available for clans that want to div? Maybe a new option besides Coop and Random?

Not really I understand people like to Division up and I understand your point as well . I'm just tired of losing to the side that has the most clan divisions in the game usually . I mean sometimes the clan division stinks and you have the better players .

It's just that if your a solo player your at very real disadvantage if there's clan divisions in the game and no one seems to acknowledge it  . Maybe I'm just being picky because I lost a few games and a lot of times out of the top 5 guys 2 or 3 seem to always be in a clan division . 

I guess I was just venting I love the game just get tired of the losing streaks .  So back to the drawing board to work on getting better seems to be the only solution .

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, 9TenSix2Eight said:

My own personal opinion i hope someday they will Balance random by making a good spread of player's by win rate on both team.

 

WR is an absolutely lousy way to determine anything about a player and the original post shows why WR is lousy.

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9 hours ago, clammboy said:

Doesn't matter you change the odds if you can pick the players you are playing with its not random . It's not about how good the players from the clan are it's about the fact that it's not random .

This is true, (or at least partly, even if you div, your opposition is random) but you simply cannot, in this day and age, release a multiplayer game that doesn't allow you to play with friends.

 

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A division helped break a losing streak i've been having with the Gneis.

Screenshot (40).png

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I totally understand people wanting to play with friends and people wanting to play with good players they can trust but that is not random . It's kind of joke and misleading .

I division with my son often. We both do better playing solo than in a division.

I disagree with your comment "it is not random" when there are divisions. But that is a personal view & very subjective as is my opposing view.

9 hours ago, 9TenSix2Eight said:

My own personal opinion i hope someday they will Balance random by making a good spread of player's by win rate on both team.

 

Balancing the teams by win rate would not balance the teams.

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3 hours ago, clammboy said:

I guess I was just venting I love the game just get tired of the losing streaks .  So back to the drawing board to work on getting better seems to be the only solution .

 

   There are people that will div with you and help you ...

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12 hours ago, clammboy said:

Random : Made , done , happing , or chosen without method or conscious decision .

I don't understand how a game mode called Random can allow a clan division of 3 players to quere into a game then allow another clan with 2 players to division up in the same game all on headsets talking and coordinating with each other . 

This means one person can division up with the 2 best players in his clan and the other with the best player in his clan all coordinated and talking with each other .

While the other team is really a random team where nobody knows each other . Everyone knows if you division up your win rate goes up but it's not right if your going to call it a random game .

Now everyone is going to say division up yourself then but that's not the point . The point is these are not random games people are boosting the odds in there favor considerably please change the name .

I totally understand people wanting to play with friends and people wanting to play with good players they can trust but that is not random . It's kind of joke and misleading .

 

 

 

 To quote Skippster for the truth of it: 

1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

This is true, (or at least partly, even if you div, your opposition is random) but you simply cannot, in this day and age, release a multiplayer game that doesn't allow you to play with friends.

 

This is really the most important thing.  I would have never taken this game serious if I could not have played with my friends.  

 

To go further,  " Randoms" is just the name.   There are all kinds of non random aspects to  "randoms"   tiers are limited, ship types are mirrored and numbers are limited. The game also always seems to make sure some of each ship type are present in a match, like the game never gave me a all cruisers match even with 60 cruisers in que.  They could have called it "Main Battle Mode" but that would be more boring yet.

Also Divs only increase your chance of winning if you work with players that are at least comparable and you all have individually enough skill to carry a positive win rate.   For example:  put 3 53%ers in a div and chance to win go up.   Put 3 45% ers on a team even with voice and chance to win drops. 

 

Voice comms are in the end something like a an amplifier.   Map awareness, ability to not die, ability to kill   are when taken altogether more important yet.    For example put 3 solo unicums on one team and fill the rest of the slots with true randoms.   Then put 3 x 3 45%er divs on the other team, they can even share voice comms.  The team with the unicums will still win most of the time.      

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12 hours ago, clammboy said:

Random : Made , done , happing , or chosen without method or conscious decision .

I don't understand how a game mode called Random can allow a clan division of 3 players to quere into a game then allow another clan with 2 players to division up in the same game all on headsets talking and coordinating with each other . 

This means one person can division up with the 2 best players in his clan and the other with the best player in his clan all coordinated and talking with each other .

While the other team is really a random team where nobody knows each other . Everyone knows if you division up your win rate goes up but it's not right if your going to call it a random game .

Now everyone is going to say division up yourself then but that's not the point . The point is these are not random games people are boosting the odds in there favor considerably please change the name .

I totally understand people wanting to play with friends and people wanting to play with good players they can trust but that is not random . It's kind of joke and misleading .

 

 

 

Match making isn't random. The fact they use the word random is extremely misleading. If it was truly random, then team size, ship tier, ship type would not make any difference. 

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5 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Match making isn't random. The fact they use the word random is extremely misleading. If it was truly random, then team size, ship tier, ship type would not make any difference. 

It's only misleading because peoples' expectations exceed the MM's design parameters.

Within the confines of matching tiers and types of ships, as well as ensuring no more than a 1 division mismatch, and adhering to soft/hard cap rules, (which is all it's designed to do) it is indeed random.

You're basically saying that 3d20 doesn't give you a random result because you can't get a result of 1 or 2, or higher than 60.

I mean, at some point, the parameters have to define the boundaries of "random", otherwise, the only way a game could truly be random is, for example, when you log in, there's a chance that WoT or WoWP launches instead, or your PC shuts down, etc.

IOW, no game is truly random, it's always contained by certain parameters.

Heck, even RL isn't truly random, because parameters such as the laws of physics impose a limit on randomness.

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46 minutes ago, eviltane said:

 To quote Skippster for the truth of it: 

This is really the most important thing.  I would have never taken this game serious if I could not have played with my friends.  

 

To go further,  " Randoms" is just the name.   There are all kinds of non random aspects to  "randoms"   tiers are limited, ship types are mirrored and numbers are limited. The game also always seems to make sure some of each ship type are present in a match, like the game never gave me a all cruisers match even with 60 cruisers in que.  They could have called it "Main Battle Mode" but that would be more boring yet.

Also Divs only increase your chance of winning if you work with players that are at least comparable and you all have individually enough skill to carry a positive win rate.   For example:  put 3 53%ers in a div and chance to win go up.   Put 3 45% ers on a team even with voice and chance to win drops. 

 

Voice comms are in the end something like a an amplifier.   Map awareness, ability to not die, ability to kill   are when taken altogether more important yet.    For example put 3 solo unicums on one team and fill the rest of the slots with true randoms.   Then put 3 x 3 45%er divs on the other team, they can even share voice comms.  The team with the unicums will still win most of the time.      

I understand divisions and how much people love to play with friends and I never said we should get rid of it because that would be stupid . I just thought that random meant random MM not that the game itself is random .

All I'm saying is MM is not random if you can choose who you play with . Again I'm not saying no divisions I don't have a problem with them unless there's a 3 clan division and a 2 clan division on one side and none on the other . Because I feel that's ahuge advantage in a lot of cases much more so than just bad players vs good players .

 

 

 

Edited by clammboy

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6 minutes ago, clammboy said:

 . Because it's a huge advantage in a lot of cases much more so than just bad players vs good players .

Not always for an randoms, example, say one clan that has three players and has maybe a B and an R in their clan tag... many times you could have 12 of them and still easily win....

See the source image

 

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13 hours ago, clammboy said:

Random : Made , done , happing , or chosen without method or conscious decision .

I don't understand how a game mode called Random can allow a clan division of 3 players to quere into a game then allow another clan with 2 players to division up in the same game all on headsets talking and coordinating with each other . 

This means one person can division up with the 2 best players in his clan and the other with the best player in his clan all coordinated and talking with each other .

While the other team is really a random team where nobody knows each other . Everyone knows if you division up your win rate goes up but it's not right if your going to call it a random game .

Now everyone is going to say division up yourself then but that's not the point . The point is these are not random games people are boosting the odds in there favor considerably please change the name .

I totally understand people wanting to play with friends and people wanting to play with good players they can trust but that is not random . It's kind of joke and misleading .

 

 

 

Have you tried it before?  Doesn't guarantee anything.

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1 hour ago, Alabamastan said:

   There are people that will div with you and help you …

Hey thanks I know that and people really are very kind Kuro has one of my replays right now trying to help me out . For what ever reasons I don't enjoy playing in divisions I like playing solo I work a lot I play the game after work for relaxation .

 

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