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TriHard_DodgeDealership

The Kron was never OP

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It's Russian. Therefore it has to be OP, right?

It's paper. Therefore it has to be OP, right?

It was removed from sale, and the only reason anything is ever removed from sale ever is because it's OP, right?

Edited by Lert
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26 minutes ago, TriHard_DodgeDealership said:

I don't know why so many people say this ship was OP. It never was. Stalingrad is but that's another story. It's as good as the Alaska.

Alaska is OP, Kron is OP.

Neither has a tech tree equivalent, both have battleship displacement, can act as proxy battleships when required, yet beenfit from cruiser matchmaking, versus the likes of Neptunes and Ibukis. 

These are (some of) the things which make them OP.

18 minutes ago, Lert said:

It's Russian. Therefore it has to be OP, right?

The Alaska is neither paper, nor Russian, but in my view, it is also overpowered, because, as with all of the supercruisers at tier 9 and 10, of how it has been implemented into the game.


Why was Kron removed from sale? Because a) too popular, b) WG likes to rotate for coal/steel reward ships

I know, my opinion on this is unpopular, in part because it does not conveniently slot into the precooked factions and lobbies on this topic. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Lert said:

It was removed from sale, and the only reason anything is ever removed from sale ever is because it's OP, right?

That part is a bit of a mystery to me.

Kronshtadt would have salvos that would be accurate and be stupidly OP, nuking your target into next match.

Your next salvo, however, would be stupidly wild and you wouldn't hit squat.  Pretty good when it hit, but hardly OP.

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1 minute ago, desmo_2 said:

That part is a bit of a mystery to me.

I'm just parroting the common narrative on the forum.

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51 minutes ago, TriHard_DodgeDealership said:

I don't know why so many people say this ship was OP. It never was. Stalingrad is but that's another story. It's as good as the Alaska.

According to the data the following items were NOT Overpowered but were nerfed anyway:

1.) Shimakaze
2.) Khaba
3.) Yue Yang
4.) Stalingrad/Kron and other Super Cruisers (Fire duration)
5.) Flooding
6.) Kleber
7.) Somers
 

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57 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Most ships that players bleat about being "OP"... are not.

 

“Bleat”....excellent descriptor of most goings on here.

 

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1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:
Edited by xXUglykidXx
I see the forums are as glitched as the game.... is there really no way to delete a quote ?

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1 hour ago, Varknyn12 said:

5.) Flooding

Did somebody say Battleship?

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It's way OP, I won the first and only battle that I played in it. Soon it will make it's way back into the the rotation and it will get a second battle. My opinion may change or be confirmed at that time.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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3 hours ago, Lert said:

It's Russian. Therefore it has to be OP, right?

It's paper. Therefore it has to be OP, right?

It was removed from sale, and the only reason anything is ever removed from sale ever is because it's OP, right?

The Moskva soon to be OP.:Smile_trollface:

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I have one and should take it out a little more, but I didn't really feel it was OP. I only did a couple matches, during which I couldn't afford to outfit, it, either, so I was disadvantaged from the start. But I'm not great with Alaska, either, so it could just be me potating. 

Frankly I think the supercruiser fire duration should be 45 seconds and not 60.

I do think that natural power creep has meant that a lot of ships that have been pulled for being unbalanced are no longer unbalanced, or, at least, are not so much so as to be hugely and gamebreakingly OP. 

Edited by RainbowFartingUnicorn

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My experience fighting against Kronshtadts is that they're big fat damage piñatas... just keep hitting them and the big damage numbers fly out over and over again, fires start easily and they burn real good.

 

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20 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

My experience fighting against Kronshtadts is that they're big fat damage piñatas... just keep hitting them and the big damage numbers fly out over and over again, fires start easily and they burn real good.

 

when they are played badly, as with any ship.

but when they are used, despite their supposedly poor dispersion at range, properly specced, as long range edge humping snipers, they can be remarkably effective. Like all super/large/battle cruisers, they can act as a proxy battleship versus enemy cruisers and some bbs, but they lack the staying power/overstay their welcome; which means too many become big fat dmg pinata. It is in this latter role that they have rendered end game heavy cruisers quite obselete, within the WOWSY meta.

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15 hours ago, LoveBote said:

Alaska is OP, Kron is OP.

Neither has a tech tree equivalent, both have battleship displacement, can act as proxy battleships when required, yet beenfit from cruiser matchmaking, versus the likes of Neptunes and Ibukis. 

These are (some of) the things which make them OP.

The Alaska is neither paper, nor Russian, but in my view, it is also overpowered, because, as with all of the supercruisers at tier 9 and 10, of how it has been implemented into the game.


Why was Kron removed from sale? Because a) too popular, b) WG likes to rotate for coal/steel reward ships

I know, my opinion on this is unpopular, in part because it does not conveniently slot into the precooked factions and lobbies on this topic. 

 

This is pretty much right, though I would argue Yoshino isn't overpowered (sub 50% win rate) and Azuma is only perhaps mildly so (roughly 52% win rate, which is pretty much the end of what I would consider "normal" range for WoWs). A notable missing feature of these two (that other  supercruisers get) is radar, so they don't have near battleship caliber weapons and HP combined with the best cruiser DD hunting tool.

Take away radar, and I suspect you would see that supercruisers would be comparable to Italian CAs, but without the SAP gimmick.

That said, more to the topic at hand, Kron has a 55% win rate, and comparing it to Alaska, which has above a 54% win rate, doesn't really help its case, since 54% is also incredibly high.

Alaska does seem to perform better in the hands of better players, but again, this still doesn't help the case for Kronshtadt, it's more an argument that Alaska is OP.

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Kronshtadt set the standard for Tier IX Super Cruisers.  Kron, Alaska, even Azuma perform at pretty similar levels.

 

However, those Tier IX Super Cruiser stats are way better than the Normal Cruisers there.  Most especially in Tier IX Ranked, it got really ugly for Normal Cruisers.  Super Cruisers were the only things with a Cruiser icon that were on average, doing well for themselves.

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16 hours ago, TriHard_DodgeDealership said:

I don't know why so many people say this ship was OP. It never was. Stalingrad is but that's another story. It's as good as the Alaska.

Yeah, and subs are never coming to WoWs.

Oh wait...

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7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Kronshtadt set the standard for Tier IX Super Cruisers.  Kron, Alaska, even Azuma perform at pretty similar levels.

 

However, those Tier IX Super Cruiser stats are way better than the Normal Cruisers there.  Most especially in Tier IX Ranked, it got really ugly for Normal Cruisers.  Super Cruisers were the only things with a Cruiser icon that were on average, doing well for themselves.

This is true, though their numbers aren't actually obscenely high in ranked. They're just not struggling like most other cruisers. Azuma is just above 50% and the other two aren't above 53%. Non supercruisers had a notably bad time overall though.

That said, it's notable that ranked creates a different balance environment due to the smaller number of ships per match and the lack of a tier spread.

On a similar note, Yoshino was dead last among cruisers in the last ranked season.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/season/season14/ship_avg_na.html

Venezia performed well. Stalingrad is Stalingrad.

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13 hours ago, Wanturskul said:

The Moskva soon to be OP.:Smile_trollface:

Good that I will get mine when the split hit :Smile_trollface:

WG believes in spreadsheets 

Take a look at the Kronsthadt one

https://na.wows-numbers.com/ship/3761157584,Kronshtadt/

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23 hours ago, Enpra said:

This is true, though their numbers aren't actually obscenely high in ranked. They're just not struggling like most other cruisers. Azuma is just above 50% and the other two aren't above 53%. Non supercruisers had a notably bad time overall though.

That said, it's notable that ranked creates a different balance environment due to the smaller number of ships per match and the lack of a tier spread.

On a similar note, Yoshino was dead last among cruisers in the last ranked season.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/season/season14/ship_avg_na.html

Venezia performed well. Stalingrad is Stalingrad.

I remember following the IX Ranked Season via stats.  It was amusing to watch it unfold.  I felt before that IX Ranked started that it was going to be a BB-DD affair primarily, just like Tier V & VI Ranked.  IX BBs on their own are very strong there.  There's a number of fantastic DDs that same tier, and they were the ones that ran wild.  The Normal Cruisers of Tier IX aren't really that good, IMO they're really Tier VIII ships whose only real buff was access to Repair Party.  Honestly?  If you gave Cleveland Repair Party, people will favor her a lot more than Seattle.

 

Late edit:  I want to add, Tier X is a very different thing altogether compared to most other tiers, especially Tier IX.  Practically everything in Tier X is nasty.  Most lower tiers there's issues where an entire portion of ships is lacking for the tier.  For Tier IX, Normal Cruisers really suck bad there while the BBs are good and the DDs get really good for the tier.  Tier V & VI is BB & DD Country and Cruisers there get massacred.  Tier VII the BBs are pretty decent but Cruiser capability improves.  But the DDs IMO start losing out that tier, as they feel like the transition to Tier VII isn't a real big improvement.  Etc.  But Tier X, the tier is just full of deadly ships everywhere.  Even the very troubled Italian Cruiser Line, the Venezia is a monster unlike anything before in her own line.  People like to rag on Shimakaze, but nobody likes having to dodge 15 torpedoes.  Some don't respect Z52 but in a BB, I don't like dodging her very quick reloading torpedoes.  Some say Montana has been power crept, but I don't like seeing 16"/50 USN Armor Piercing Shells x12 flying at my Cruisers.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

My experience fighting against Kronshtadts is that they're big fat damage piñatas... just keep hitting them and the big damage numbers fly out over and over again, fires start easily and they burn real good.

 

I pretty much destroy almost any normal cruiser who picks a direct fight with my Kron.

1 hour ago, cyclone_z said:

kron has the worse dispersion in the game

Not even close buddy.

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1 hour ago, Enpra said:

This is pretty much right, though I would argue Yoshino isn't overpowered (sub 50% win rate) and Azuma is only perhaps mildly so (roughly 52% win rate, which is pretty much the end of what I would consider "normal" range for WoWs). A notable missing feature of these two (that other  supercruisers get) is radar, so they don't have near battleship caliber weapons and HP combined with the best cruiser DD hunting tool.

Take away radar, and I suspect you would see that supercruisers would be comparable to Italian CAs, but without the SAP gimmick.

That said, more to the topic at hand, Kron has a 55% win rate, and comparing it to Alaska, which has above a 54% win rate, doesn't really help its case, since 54% is also incredibly high.

Alaska does seem to perform better in the hands of better players, but again, this still doesn't help the case for Kronshtadt, it's more an argument that Alaska is OP.

Win Rate is not a performance metric. 

To observe the performance and strength of a subject ship/ship type you must look at the actual performance metrics which impact the match result (and which impact it the most).

Tier 1 performance metrics are : Average Damage per match, Average Kills per match, and Survival Rate.
Tier 2 performance metrics are : Aggro damage (Potential damage), Base Capture, Plane kills.
etc

 

These are determined by not only the win conditions (e.g. first to get to 1,000 points, sink all enemy ships, have the most points when time runs out, Instant point gain/loss for sinking a ship) and the ruleset (No Respawns, 12v12, no SBMM, etc)


For Win Rate to be indicative of the performance of a ship/ship type you would have to be able to prove a causal relationship. One, by removing the inherent bias. Two, by greatly lessening the unquantifiable dependencies.
This can be achieved if the primary game mode was 1v1 and SBMM

 

Edited by Varknyn12

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27 minutes ago, Varknyn12 said:

Win Rate is not a performance metric. 

To observe the performance and strength of a subject ship/ship type you must look at the actual performance metrics which impact the match result (and which impact it the most).

Tier 1 performance metrics are : Average Damage per match, Average Kills per match, and Survival Rate.
Tier 2 performance metrics are : Aggro damage (Potential damage), Base Capture, Plane kills.
etc

 

These are determined by not only the win conditions (e.g. first to get to 1,000 points, sink all enemy ships, have the most points when time runs out, Instant point gain/loss for sinking a ship) and the ruleset (No Respawns, 12v12, no SBMM, etc)


For Win Rate to be indicative of the performance of a ship/ship type you would have to be able to prove a causal relationship. One, by removing the inherent bias. Two, by greatly lessening the unquantifiable dependencies.
This can be achieved if the primary game mode was 1v1 and SBMM

 

Win rate is literally the match result. It tells you directly how the match has been impacted and resulted. It is literally exactly the performance metric. Nothing matters if you're not winning. If you're not winning, you've failed to swing the match in  your favor, and I don't care about anything else you've done. Either you succeed and you win, or you fail and lose/draw. How you got there is not a concern so long as you manage to do it. This goes for both players and ships.

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