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Indomitable is OP - excellent anti-dd CV

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fight me/


finally I cracked, buying her after saying I wouldn't. I dislike the choice of aircraft, not terribly historical Sea Hornets over the much more capable and for the FAA, far more numerous and effective, Sea Furies, for example. I dislike the absence of Torpedo Bombers. I dislike the hull which adds nothing terribly original. So much that I dislike.../ @Femennenly what do you think of her now that this CV is out in the wild?

But I bought her, went straight into random battles with my Audaciousl captain, and won 10 straight battles, without blinking once. Average dmg was low, 50k, but it was quality dmg, most of it, versus dds. The rocket attack planes are very effective, if you are reasonably experienced using rocket attack fighters of other nations. They are so tremendously fast, with excellent boosts, that it is easy to cycle attack waves versus a single lone target, such as a dd. Takeoff, spot, attack and torment x 3 with 4k dmg per strike, press f, takeoff again, finish job, murder dd. I have heard from other sources, that some players have trouble targeting dds with the attack fighters because it is easy to overshoot given the tremendous speed the attack fighters have. I have not had this problem.

The Bombers, I honestly do not like, despite their speed, I used them more often than not, as a last resort, or just as scouts. My experience will doubtless contrast with that of other Indomitable owners, but my personal CV history is quite special and flavoursome.

With all the recent hate being shown on the forums regarding CV attack fighters, I cannot but wonder, what is going on with Indomitable.

My CV spec here : 

note, I have not used any upgrades to boost my attack fighters (maybe I should!), I have been using them straight out of the box. Reminder, : Captain is from Audacious.

 

image.png.d87f7b211f64b69534eaf0d07c02f5b1.pngimage.png.1ff17f0da91a3555052236cfe23f8fbf.png 

@LittleWhiteMouse's review has plenty of information which a new Indomitable player will want to know,.

For an experienced CV player, Indomitable is repetitive, I was suffering from a guilt complex about persecuting dds too, after a couple of hours. But damnit, she is very good at persecuting dds. The closest comparable carrier with fast airgroups, is the Graf Zeppelin, but the Graf's attack fighters, unlike the dive and torpedo bombers, while reasonably effective once on target, are slow as molasses, they make poor scouts, and are best in a defensive posture, protecting the Zeppelin from a dd attack, when flight times are short, besides which, Graf's rockets overpen dds, if they don't miss altogether.

The Zeppelin, in my view, is a far more complete package, and all in all, far more fun to play. She is easier to get good damage scores with. She is so much more versatile. She trols and lols all day long, battle after battle, win or lose. The Zeppelin is much more engaging. 

But I have come to the conclusion, because of the speed demon dd hunting Sea Hornet Attack Fighters, that the boring and repetitive to play Indomitable is in fact, a more effective CV for random battles.

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And once targeted, those poor DD players really have no counter.  Their game is over.  Smoking (if you have it) only protects you are a short while.  After that, no amount of AA, juking, or speed changing will save you.  If you can live long enough to run back to a cruiser for AA support you might survive...but that's pretty doubtful.

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9 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

And once targeted, those poor DD players really have no counter.  Their game is over.  

pretty much. Indomitable has no equal in this, she is a nightmare for dds. Because even if the dd attacks the first x 3 attack waves, she won't survive the second squadron of attack fighters, and there will be a second, very quickly after the first. And this, is true versus dds of all tiers, from 6 to 10.

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28 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

pretty much. Indomitable has no equal in this, she is a nightmare for dds. Because even if the dd attacks the first x 3 attack waves, she won't survive the second squadron of attack fighters, and there will be a second, very quickly after the first. And this, is true versus dds of all tiers, from 6 to 10.

Certainly not a good idea to so badly harass the DDs so much when soon teams will likely be needing to rely on them as the primary sub hunters unless CAs get ASW in which case the task may actually fall primarily to CAs while backed up by DDs. (CAs can be swift moving, well armed, carry hydro, and it would mainly be a matter of if they could get depth charges or not.)

And while unfortunately I can believe WG would do this with a tier 8 CV, I think we should negotiate and have it moved to tier X to allow tiers 6-7 to not have to endure such attacks. I mean think about it we get new players into the game, they have been actually doing their best to learn, are doing everything right as far as how to proceed in the learning process/ playing the game, then you hit them at tier 6 with Indomitable. And right after said players might have been reassured that tier 6 DDs have a better time of it than tiers 3-5 because of 3 CVs per side down there.

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48 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

And once targeted, those poor DD players really have no counter.  Their game is over.  Smoking (if you have it) only protects you are a short while.  After that, no amount of AA, juking, or speed changing will save you.  If you can live long enough to run back to a cruiser for AA support you might survive...but that's pretty doubtful.

Looks like CAs and DDs will have to partner up, or else CAs will need to step up and be the DDs or maybe a mix of BBs / CAs doing the jobs DDs once filled.

We might need to test to see if a DD wolf pack can fend off the planes as I have seen strong aircraft downed by 2-4 DDs in close proximity to each other. Also may cause carrying the skill BFT and carrying AA flags to be mandatory for DDs now.

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8 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Certainly not a good idea to so badly harass the DDs so much when soon teams will likely be needing to rely on them as the primary sub hunters unless CAs get ASW in which case the task may actually fall primarily to CAs while backed up by DDs. (CAs can be swift moving, well armed, carry hydro, and it would mainly be a matter of if they could get depth charges or not.)

And while unfortunately I can believe WG would do this with a tier 8 CV, I think we should negotiate and have it moved to tier X to allow tiers 6-7 to not have to endure such attacks. I mean think about it we get new players into the game, they have been actually doing their best to learn, are doing everything right as far as how to proceed in the learning process/ playing the game, then you hit them at tier 6 with Indomitable. And right after said players might have been reassured that tier 6 DDs have a better time of it than tiers 3-5 because of 3 CVs per side down there.

Given that Indomitable's hull is so Audacious-like, and her planes are tier 10 worthy, I don't disagree. Better, bump her up to tier 10, and replace the Sea Hornets with historically relevant Sea Furies (faster, more flexible, and with folding wings, better hangar capacity).

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6 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

Given that Indomitable's hull is so Audacious-like, and her planes are tier 10 worthy, I don't disagree. Better, bump her up to tier 10, and replace the Sea Hornets with historically relevant Sea Furies (faster, more flexible, and with folding wings, better hangar capacity).

And it’s not like Indomitable players would feel cheated or anything if WG moved it up to X thanks to higher XP earning potentials for them. And as long as WG ensured that the service costs remained at tier 8 levels I would not see any reason for them to complain on that front either. Only reason an Indomitable player might complain would be is if they had wanted to terrorize tiers 6-10, but that is not what we need to keep the game alive and healthy as far as DDs go.

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Indomitable rockets are by far the weakest rockets out of all T8 CVs.
They barely even scratch Destroyers donig pityful 2k damage on average per run. 
You don't have a lot of rockets per drop and their individual damage is not great either.
Their speed is actually a huge problem. 
Assuming the DD has his AA off you will 100% overshoot them on the initial spotting and you do have to a turnaround before dropping.
This turnaround takes forever because the planes just don't turn which in the meantime gives the DD enough time to kill the fighters and be dark again.
So if you want to hunt DDs literally every other T8 CV is suited better for that.

Don't get me wrong. I like the Indomitable. It's fun.
But the rockets planes are absulut trash and should basically never be used unless you are somehow running low on bombers.

Edited by tmGrunty

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1 hour ago, tmGrunty said:

Indomitable rockets are by far the weakest rockets out of all T8 CVs.
They barely even scratch Destroyers donig pityful 2k damage on average per run. 

I don't how I am getting 4k per run then...

As I mention in the OP, I have zero issues with the speed.

Which makes the turn times quite acceptable, if wide arcs, the turn is completed quickly enough.

I have every other CV in the game, Indomitable is by far the best for the job, certainly the best at tier 8. Speed = excellent scouts, rockets = well equipped for anti dd work. The combination is unmatched by any other tier 8 CV.

Now I know my experience and statements run counter to what others have been saying. What can I say? Everyone else has been talking nonsense, neglecting the ace in the deck, the attack fighters and Indomitables ability versus dds.

I didn't realize you were a supertester, is that new? edit : If you are struggling with Indomitable, stop farming damage with the bombers, and start scouting and persecuting dds with your rocket armed attack fighters.:Smile_glasses:

(plan versus a dd - not really terribly different to any other t8 cv, only more effective because speed and perfectly serviceable rocket munitions).

  1. once spotted overfly, dropping fighter consumeable (if available) 
  2. circle back and commence strafe
  3. repeat until exhausted, 
  4. press f, zoom back and do the same with a fresh squadron,

a battle using attack fighters for the most part, sadly only one dd to persecute : 

image.png.cae7afb1abc2d27fd18516a923ed4334.pngimage.thumb.png.4814baad0416db8beb1f6f3a81c65b17.png image.png.e40872ca1da3599d64cfd78454fe4f62.png

this reminds  me of old school RTS vision control priorities as a way of winning battles (I used to employ similar in the early, pre buff, 203 HE rts Graf Zeppelin, in order to swing battles).

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The only benefit this CV has in attacking DD'S is her ability to get anywhere fast and the ease of hitting thim with either type of plane.  She does not get the kind of damage numbers from her rockets that the enterprise does and due to her speed, repeated attacks on the same ship are not advantageous.   Her real strength in my opinion shines in hitting multiple ships per run and setting as many fires as possible early on.  Later game you use her speed to help put pressure on ships getting focused.   Her lack of alpha and dependency on dot damage makes solo killing ships frustrating at best.

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31 minutes ago, HallaSnackbar said:

The only benefit this CV has in attacking DD'S is her ability to get anywhere fast and the ease of hitting thim with either type of plane.

which is a not an inconsiderable benefit, if used appropriately. It is why I have had an almost unbroken series of wins, despite low dmg overall, in Indomitable. In fact, the ability to attain vision control advantage (by scouting the enemy before their cv scouts your allies), to find and attack a dd target multiple times with very low downtime or transit time as you cycle squadrons with rocket attack fighters, is unique, and only possible due the speed and flexibility of the attack fighters. Not any type of plane can do this effectively, the level bombers, while fast, are unreliable versus dds (they can do great, but you only get 4 per squadron and they are hit and miss, compared to the attack fighters, which have 6 per squadron and are reasonably accurate.)

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39 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

which is a not an inconsiderable benefit, if used appropriately. It is why I have had an almost unbroken series of wins, despite low dmg overall, in Indomitable. In fact, the ability to attain vision control advantage (by scouting the enemy before their cv scouts your allies), to find and attack a dd target multiple times with very low downtime or transit time as you cycle squadrons with rocket attack fighters, is unique, and only possible due the speed and flexibility of the attack fighters. Not any type of plane can do this effectively, the level bombers, while fast, are unreliable versus dds (they can do great, but you only get 4 per squadron and they are hit and miss, compared to the attack fighters, which have 6 per squadron and are reasonably accurate.)

I hate to say it but I think your win streak is a bit of a lucky one.   The ability to kill dd's is only beneficial if the dd's on your team are able to capitalize on it.  Playing solo you are at the mercy of mm and the potatoes that come with it.

In my experience this CV'S lack of alph makes it even more dependent on supporting team members than the rest.

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24 minutes ago, HallaSnackbar said:

I hate to say it but I think your win streak is a bit of a lucky one.   The ability to kill dd's is only beneficial if the dd's on your team are able to capitalize on it.  Playing solo you are at the mercy of mm and the potatoes that come with it.

In my experience this CV'S lack of alph makes it even more dependent on supporting team members than the rest.

It isn't just about killing dds, it is about vision control, as I state above. You can try and brawn and bluster your way to victory, most do via dmg farming. But it is not the only way. There are several ways to victory when playing amidst what appears to you, to be potatoe MM. One is to ignore everyone and just try to deal a maximum amount of damage. The other is to preempt the problems your team may face. I understand you are rework CVer, and see things through this perspective, but your principal experience is with Saipan, an excellent dmg dealer btw, but this is a very different sort of cving, with a very different skillset. I think your own lack of a winning streak in Indomitable is either down to poor luck, or too much focus on dmg, and not enough on persecuting kittens dds, and other soft but dangerous targets. Worry less about how many fires you can start on bbs, and more on how you can be useful. Think of it like herding cats (your team of potatoes), it isn't easy, but it can be done. Remember that everytime you have a potatoe team, the majority of the time, so does the enemy. Neutralize their eyes, neutralize their threats, (dds and cls) let the bbs enjoy their pillow fight.

24 minutes ago, HallaSnackbar said:

In my experience this CV'S lack of alph makes it even more dependent on supporting team members than the rest.

well quite, and potatoe teams need your support! A good support CV hunts dds. And there is no Cv out there, as well equipped as Indomitable, for the job.

 

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9 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

It isn't just about killing dds, it is about vision control, as I state above. You can try and brawn and bluster your way to victory, most do via dmg farming. But it is not the only way. There are several ways to victory when playing amidst what appears to you, to be potatoe MM. One is to ignore everyone and just try to deal a maximum amount of damage. The other is to preempt the problems your team may face. I understand you are rework CVer, and see things through this perspective, but your principal experience is with Saipan, an excellent dmg dealer btw, but this is a very different sort of cving, with a very different skillset. I think your own lack of a winning streak in Indomitable is either down to poor luck, or too much focus on dmg, and not enough on persecuting kittens dds, and other soft but dangerous targets. Worry less about how many fires you can start on bbs, and more on how you can be useful. Think of it like herding cats (your team of potatoes), it isn't easy, but it can be done. Remember that everytime you have a potatoe team, the majority of the time, so does the enemy. Neutralize their eyes, neutralize their threats, (dds and cls) let the bbs enjoy their pillow fight.

well quite, and potatoe teams need your support! A good support CV hunts dds. And there is no Cv out there, as well equipped as Indomitable, for the job.

 

Although I play quite a bit of rework cv I also played quite a bit in RTS days.  I logged over 168 games in my Saipan alone with a 58% win rate in it and made it all the way to the midway prior to 8.0.  Saipan was my first premium ship.

 

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55 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

It isn't just about killing dds, it is about vision control, as I state above. You can try and brawn and bluster your way to victory, most do via dmg farming. But it is not the only way. There are several ways to victory when playing amidst what appears to you, to be potatoe MM. One is to ignore everyone and just try to deal a maximum amount of damage. The other is to preempt the problems your team may face. I understand you are rework CVer, and see things through this perspective, but your principal experience is with Saipan, an excellent dmg dealer btw, but this is a very different sort of cving, with a very different skillset. I think your own lack of a winning streak in Indomitable is either down to poor luck, or too much focus on dmg, and not enough on persecuting kittens dds, and other soft but dangerous targets. Worry less about how many fires you can start on bbs, and more on how you can be useful. Think of it like herding cats (your team of potatoes), it isn't easy, but it can be done. Remember that everytime you have a potatoe team, the majority of the time, so does the enemy. Neutralize their eyes, neutralize their threats, (dds and cls) let the bbs enjoy their pillow fight.

well quite, and potatoe teams need your support! A good support CV hunts dds. And there is no Cv out there, as well equipped as Indomitable, for the job.

 

In some battles the CAs are more of a threat / influential than the DDs, but of course it depends on the line up, map, and tier. Like let’s say there are 3 well positioned Stalingrads that are angled perfected so that your team can’t citadel them, their have Radar in sync do DDs can’t get at them, and they are burning down your team. Their DD is a Khaba, and they of course have a nice assortment of BBs. You have a Shimakaze on your team that you know is competent.

So in such a battle which targets should a CV try to help take down to increase the odds of a win?

If you choose wrongly in that battle the enemy could hold out long enemy to weaken your team and then break through. Your CV very likely will end up a fun casualty for enemy ships to sink.

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You're contradicting your own statement with your screenshot.
33k damage from rockets in 115 hits equals roughly 300 damage per rocket (slightly less).
You also missed just over half of them (slightly less again).
You have "only"16 rockets per drop. To make up for the slightly <50% hits and less than 300 damage we now assume you hit 7 per drop on average (but keep the 300 damage).
That equals 2100 damage on average per drop and I'm pretty sure that does include drops on other targets than DDs on which are much easier to hit and result in more hits (so even less hits on DDs).
In fact you only had 1 DD in that game so that vast majority of that rocket damage was against bigger targets that are easier to hit and you still barely broke broke the 2100 damage per drop).
So you are very far off from the 4k you claimed and close to the 2k I said.

The wast majority of your damage in that game came from fires which you were incredibly lucky to get so much fire damage out of only 12 fires.

I'd also take a bet that I can kill any given Destroyer in any T8 CV quicker than you can in your Indomitable.

Edited by tmGrunty

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17 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

In some battles the CAs are more of a threat / influential than the DDs, but of course it depends on the line up, map, and tier. Like let’s say there are 3 well positioned Stalingrads that are angled perfected so that your team can’t citadel them, their have Radar in sync do DDs can’t get at them, and they are burning down your team. Their DD is a Khaba, and they of course have a nice assortment of BBs. You have a Shimakaze on your team that you know is competent.

So in such a battle which targets should a CV try to help take down to increase the odds of a win?

If you choose wrongly in that battle the enemy could hold out long enemy to weaken your team and then break through. Your CV very likely will end up a fun casualty for enemy ships to sink.

khaba 1st, then burn the stalingrads. But of course, you are describing something of a nightmare scenario, unless all 3 STs are pure potatoe (which is now a possibility). Because let's be honest, no t8 CV is going to have an immediate effect on the STs. Their AA is not as bad as some like to make out, they have the HP to tank alpha dmg. Floods don't concern them too much as they spend most of theit time parked bow on. The only thing that annoys them, are fires. Which can be started opportunistically. Of the various t8 CVs, Indomitable happens to be among the best equipped for the job.

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3 hours ago, tmGrunty said:

I'd also take a bet that I can kill any given Destroyer in any T8 CV quicker than you can in your Indomitable.

possibly or possibly  not, so much depends on ideal circumstances and infinite variables our random battles offer up/ but I bet I can find a dd with Indomitable's attack fighters, faster than with the attack fighters of any other CV; commence attacking it, press f, return to finish the job (or not!) with a second squadron, before your "any other t8 cv" has even found the dd. Which in a team based game, matters. 

3 hours ago, tmGrunty said:

You're contradicting your own statement with your screenshot.

The screenshot is an anecdotal example, it is not there to prove or disprove the OP (too few dds in that particular battle, althout it certainly does not disagree with the OP). It is a battle where most of my activity involved using the attack fighters, to great influential effect, without resorting to dmg farming (hence low overall dmg result, while coming top in my team). I  only used the bombers in the end game, when low on attack fighter spawns, to clean up bb stragglers. The screenshot is there to illsustrate the idea that playing smart is quite as valuable an approach to CVing, as dmg farming. That the attack fighters were my principle resource and contribution to the team for the majority of the battle, and that they were effective in their contribution. You may point out my inaccuracy with them, so what, with 3 strafes per squadron sortie, 6 fighters per squadron, it is quite ok and reasonable to miss. As for hit rates, my hit rates in that screenshot example were constant, about 40% whether using rockets or bombs, I don't say the bombs are bad, they certainly are not, versus cruisers and some bbs they are very effective. But, the attack fighters are much more versatile, while having the same high speed as the bombers. This makes them unique among t8 CVs. They are the fastest attack fighters, by a good margin, at t8. 

3 hours ago, tmGrunty said:

The wast majority of your damage in that game came from fires which you were incredibly lucky to get so much fire damage out of only 12 fires.

not at all, early game I opportunistically attacked a Monarch that was without an AA umbrella, while scouting the enemy fleet and hunting a Benham. Being a good boy (British../) , the Monarch let it burn nicely. I was hopscotching, setting fires on everything along my path with the attack fighters. Call that luck if you like, everything is an opportunity, opportunities are about creating your own chances, and luck.

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I know the fighters are the fastest and i'm not taking shots at your hitrate.
The whole issue is that the reticle is big and the "miss-rate" on smaller targets is high because of it by default and the indivudial rocket damage is the lowest of all T8 CVs besides the HVAR wehich make for it in numbers.
It's just hard cold stats of amount of rockets fired and damage per rockets that makes that payload bad. And the aiming reticle size doesn't help it either.
Yes you will find target quicker because your planes are so much faster. But getting the damage in is a different story.

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I just did a small test in training room to showcase what I mean.
These were 3 perfectly executed drops onto a stationary stock Kagero with no AA on.
In order to make those drops the target had to spotted by something else because the run needed to be initiated outside the default AA detection of that Kagero.

Drop 1: ~4300 damage

shot-20.02.09_02.17.36-0284.jpg

shot-20.02.09_02.17.38-0470.jpg

Drop 2: ~3100 damage

shot-20.02.09_02.18.00-0122.jpg

shot-20.02.09_02.18.02-0681.jpg

Drop 3: ~3500 damage

shot-20.02.09_02.18.18-0815.jpg

shot-20.02.09_02.18.19-0103.jpg

And this was under ideal circumstances. You don't get that perfect aim when the target is maneuvering. You might now get drops from all 6 planes.
In a regular match the Destroyers also will have more hitpoints. Even sending our your full squads twice will most likely not sink it.

edit #1:

If you repeat that same test with for example a Graf Zeppelin (I did that and hope you believe me without having to post more pictures) that Kagero is dead after your 3rd drop AND you still have one more drop left on that squadron.

edit #2:

I repeated the test with Lexington (Tiny Tims), Shokaku and Implacable.
While the Lexington did not kill the Kagero it did more damage than the Indomitable and if you want to hunt DDs then the HVAR are the better option anyway.
Shokaku and Implacable both sunk the Kagero although it was very close.

Edited by tmGrunty

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59 minutes ago, tmGrunty said:

I just did a small test in training room to showcase what I mean.
These were 3 perfectly executed drops onto a stationary stock Kagero with no AA on.
In order to make those drops the target had to spotted by something else because the run needed to be initiated outside the default AA detection of that Kagero.

I ran similar tests with all of the tier VIII rocket aircraft back when the premium ships were re-released and redid them for Indomitable and Implacable in patch 0.8.11 with my Indomitable review.  I wanted to see which aspect facing yielded more hits per attack run and thus launched attack after attack after attack for hours on end.  These were done against a Reference Mahan™ with attacks running head on versus broad side. 

Rocket Hits (head-on/broadside)

  • Implacable:  4.5 / 5.3
  • Indomitable:  3.4 / 4.9

I must stress the volatility of rocket-dispersion.  Even with perfectly run attacks with a fully aimed reticule aimed at the same part of the ship, it wasn't out of place to land with over a third of the rockets on a bow-on shot in one run and then hit with nothing on another.  Broadside shots were less volatile, but the delta was still enormous.  Making any claim based on just a few attack runs (and I'm talking less than 20) won't give anywhere near a clear picture of rocket accuracy, to say nothing of making such claims in the cauldron of a Random Battle. 

Indomitable's rockets have one thing going for them and that's their very small rocket aim marker.  Now, the dispersion on said rocket has been made-worse than other carriers to make it less effective against destroyers relative to its size.  Their rockets are, on the whole, pathetic.  Anything her rockets can do, her bombs do much more effectively, including picking on destroyers.

 

 

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11 hours ago, tmGrunty said:

I just did a small test in training room to showcase what I mean.
These were 3 perfectly executed drops onto a stationary stock Kagero with no AA on.
In order to make those drops the target had to spotted by something else because the run needed to be initiated outside the default AA detection of that Kagero.

.. and the kagero needed to be stationary.

I have tried hitting moving dds with the bombs, but 9 times out of 10, I miss. The drop times are sooooo long.

11 hours ago, tmGrunty said:

edit #1:

If you repeat that same test with for example a Graf Zeppelin (I did that and hope you believe me without having to post more pictures) that Kagero is dead after your 3rd drop AND you still have one more drop left on that squadron.

I do believe you, but these tests are in ideal circumstances, purely based on dmg to a stationary target, assuming the target has already been spotted. I don't disagree (you put in a good effort in testing this out).

9 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Indomitable's rockets have one thing going for them and that's their very small rocket aim marker.  Now, the dispersion on said rocket has been made-worse than other carriers to make it less effective against destroyers relative to its size.  Their rockets are, on the whole, pathetic.  Anything her rockets can do, her bombs do much more effectively, including picking on destroyers.

Fine, a challenege (you don't have to accept!). See how well you do with Indomitable's bombers versus player controlled moving dds. I Know it is possible, (when opportunity knocks, I take the shot) but for the life of me, I find it much harder to reliably land hits on actively evading dds with the bombers, than with the attack fighters. 

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6 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

Fine, a challenege (you don't have to accept!). See how well you do with Indomitable's bombers versus player controlled moving dds. I Know it is possible, (when opportunity knocks, I take the shot) but for the life of me, I find it much harder to reliably land hits on actively evading dds with the bombers, than with the attack fighters.  

Careful now, you're claiming that Just Dodge™ works against bombers.

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3 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Careful now, you're claiming that Just Dodge™ works against bombers.

I once took 2k off a dd with Graf Zeppelin's AP bombers, and the dd was undertaking Just Dodge evasive manœuvres, miracles do happen. Pre-nerf Lexington set the standard of course, I haven't taken her out to test the HE bombers for a long while versus dds in a battle, I must try to see how they do now.

edit : I have now tested current Lex (in coop as only a 10 pt captain available) bombers versus dds, they are not terribly effective. Implacables attack fighters (amazingly slow considering they are reskinned Spitfires), when they finally arrive on scene, are more effective than Indomitables, but everything about the HMS Impossibly Slow, is slow, too slow.

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Using carpet bombers against DDs is very hard especially if the DD is good.
I'm not saying you should use bombs in the Indomitable against Destroyers.
I'm saying your overall ability to deal with them is worse than with any other CV BECAUSE your bombs are unreliable and the rockets are weaker.

Edited by tmGrunty

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