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tm63au

Has WG given A official Reason Why Two Tech Ships Will Now Become Premiums

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I was playing the game grinding ships and doing the usual dailies and a number of things struck me:

Firstly we have had split lines before no others have had two ships taken out and become Premium / Special before.

Why the Russian Cruiser line and why a tier 5 ship, also I can understand Moskva but kirov.

There appears to no reason for this decision given by WG well none that can find, admittedly I didn't watch the live stream where it was announced.

A tier 5 ship moved from the tech tree line to become a premium, WG have never been fond of making decent mid to low ships in recent times, true there some really good ones but how many mediocre ones have come out over the past year or so, but they pull a tech tree one out of the line, very strange .

They seem hell bent on tiers 8 to 10 when it comes to producing premiums, I decided to ask people what they thought of Kirov, I got told its a solid ship and comfortable to play.

Still the question I am asking is Kirov premium material I know Moskva is with its 50mm bow plating.

Another question is this going to be a once off or when more split lines come out will other ships go the same way.

This works out well for WG, people that were on the fence or started then stopped grinding the Russian cruisers now have a big incentive, to do so now and they may have to burn through flags and premium time so not to miss out before patch 9.4 hits.

People has been asking for a USN BB split line for ages when this occurs will we see Montana and New York follow this new split line process.

This new split line development is very interesting.  

 

   

Edited by tm63au

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5 minutes ago, tm63au said:

I was playing the game grinding ships and doing the usual dailies and a number of things struck me:

Firstly we have had split lines before no others have had two ships taken out and become Premium / Special before.

Why the Russian Cruiser line and why a tier 5 ship, also I can understand Moskva but kirov.

There appears to no reason for this decision given by WG well none that can find, admittedly I didn't watch the live stream where it was announced.

A tier 5 ship moved from the tech tree line to become a premium, WG have never been fond of making decent mid to low ships in recent times, true there some really good ones but how many mediocre ones have come out over the past year or so, but they pull a tech tree one out of the line, very strange .

They seem hell bent on tiers 8 to 10 when it comes to producing premiums, I decided to ask people what they thought of Kirov, I got told its a solid ship and comfortable to play.

Still the question I am asking is Kirov premium material I know Moskva is with its 50mm bow plating.

Another question is this going to be a once off or when more split lines come out will other ships go the same way.

This works out well for WG, people that were on the fence or started then stopped grinding the Russian cruisers now have a big incentive, to do so now and they may have to burn through flags and premium time so not to miss out before patch 9.4 hits.

No clue as to why.

 

5 minutes ago, tm63au said:

People has been asking for a USN BB split line for ages when this occurs will we see Montana and New York follow this new split line process.

This new split line development is very interesting.  

Texas is already there as a New York class BB premium.

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     In last week's Twitch stream, Mr. Conway and Chrysantos explained that the present Kiev and Moskva do not fit the new tech tree progressions and so will be canonized as premiums.

     I'm not judging here, just relating what I heard on the stream.

Edited by So_lt_Goes

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7 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

No clue as to why.

 

Texas is already there as a New York class BB premium.

True The Texas is the tier 5 Premium but so are Murmansk and Krispy Kreme, that will make 3 tier 5 Russian Cruiser premiums.  

Edited by tm63au

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Just now, tm63au said:

True The Texas is the tier 5 Premium but so are Murmansk and Krispy Kreme, that will make 3 tier 5 premiums.  

Murmansk and Krasny Krim are very different ships from Kirov. If I had to guess, it's related to the RU server and bringing in the names for the new tech tree ships as well as making the line more homogeneous.

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Kirov is an aberration - you go from small-calibre (up to 152mm) guns that require IFHE at Tier 4 to 180mm guns that more or less don't at tier 5, then back down to 152mm again at Tiers 6 through 8. Putting in a true light cruiser at T5 will keep the optimal skill set homogenous for the first 8 tiers before the step up to 180mm. Making her a premium is a nice touch, and although she becomes more or less a T5 Molotov I'm not complaining. Newbs chasing the Russian line have the opportunity to grind hard and get themselves an acceptable training ship for their nation.

The side branch will go to heavy guns sooner. They could have kicked Moskva across, I guess, but making her a premium is a nice gesture for the people who either have the ship already or can drive themselves to grind her out before the day comes.

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16 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

They could have kicked Moskva across,

which would have left out the 1950s Sverdlov class.

Besides which Moskva has not aged well, her role as a tanky bow on heavy cruiser that could proxy for battleships has been taken by Stalingrad in competitive tier10.

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I'm actually more than a bit surprised we didn't get a tech tree Sverdlov out of this. There was one named Alexander Nevsky, but what they posted doesn't look like a Sverdlov, unless it's an upgunned offshoot using the standard WG logic (i.e. 2 bigger barrels = 3 slightly smaller ones) . 

But as to the OPs question, yeah, the other seal lover above got it right on the nose.  

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1 hour ago, tm63au said:

True The Texas is the tier 5 Premium but so are Murmansk and Krispy Kreme, that will make 3 tier 5 Russian Cruiser premiums.  

I find it interesting that its apparently a problem if the Russian navy does it but the Royal navy gets a pass.

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40 minutes ago, TheBigM145 said:

I'm actually more than a bit surprised we didn't get a tech tree Sverdlov out of this. There was one named Alexander Nevsky, but what they posted doesn't look like a Sverdlov, unless it's an upgunned offshoot using the standard WG logic (i.e. 2 bigger barrels = 3 slightly smaller ones) . 

But as to the OPs question, yeah, the other seal lover above got it right on the nose.  

I am now confused.

 https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/66.htm

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A few reasons.

The Moskva is not played very often at all, only tech tree ships played less are the ships that have 50% or less of the shelf life the Moskva has enjoyed. Otherwise it is a very very distant last place in games played amongst it's peers.

It is a very difficult ship to play well and to be frank it's hard to enjoy bow tanking and reversing all the time. (which is what most players end up doing and we all know it).

It also eats credits at tier ten.

This company cannot stand for their country's capitol city namesake to be viewed poorly or ignored.. So, now it moves to Premium status so people will play it.  

 

Edited by Waxing_Gibbous
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2 hours ago, So_lt_Goes said:

     In last week's Twitch stream, Mr. Conway and Chrysantos explained that the present Kiev and Moskva do not fit the new tech tree progressions and so will be canonized as premiums.

     I'm not judging here, just relating what I heard on the stream.

This is true. Kirov is 180mm in the middle of 152. And Moskva is completely different from the preceding ships. Requires completely different captain build. So it makes sense to split them off and put ships in that (I assume) fit the rest of the line better. The extra three ship, I dunno why we need to split the line. WG must have thought they didn't have enough paper ships or something.

59 minutes ago, Lert said:

I find it interesting that its apparently a problem if the Russian navy does it but the Royal navy gets a pass.

Most of the RN ships actually existed, the RU ships not so much. Basically there's way more real ships that could be added, but instead we're getting more mostly paper RU ships. I think WG is catering to the RU server.

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7 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Most of the RN ships actually existed, the RU ships not so much. Basically there's way more real ships that could be added, but instead we're getting more mostly paper RU ships.

Personally I find this excusable, considering -

7 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

I think WG is catering to the RU server.

The truth of that statement.

While the NA playerbase spends more per capita than on RU, the RU server simply houses such a hugely larger playerbase that a large portion of the revenue from WoWS comes in through that server. I'm all for historical ships being introduced and will always argue that a paper ship should never take the place of a historical one, but I for one can't really blame WG for catering to the RU server in this case.

American content will come. In time.

<Edit> I find this RU cruiser tree split a lot more palatable than the 'pan' European destroyer line.

Edited by Lert
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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Personally I find this excusable, considering -

The truth of that statement.

While the NA playerbase spends more per capita than on RU, the RU server simply houses such a hugely larger playerbase that a large portion of the revenue from WoWS comes in through that server. I'm all for historical ships being introduced and will always argue that a paper ship should never take the place of a historical one, but I for one can't really blame WG for catering to the RU server in this case.

American content will come. In time.

That's fair, and we just got Georgia, Alaska, and Ohio. But part of me has to wonder if the, ah, shall we say strong traits of a certain nations ships are also catering to the RU server? Personally I like the looks of the new line split, I just have to ask why now? And if WG is willing to overlook problems with any ship or line to cater too a certain part of the playerbase, that's not exactly a great way to balance the game.

I mean was Odin really over performing enough to justify getting clobbered to T6 BB HP levels? I've never been a supporter of the Russian bias theory, but some of the moves WG has made lately really have really made me think there might be something to it...

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1 minute ago, AJTP89 said:

That's fair, and we just got Georgia, Alaska, and Ohio. But part of me has to wonder if the, ah, shall we say strong traits of a certain nations ships are also catering to the RU server?

Considering the RU server seems to believe there's an anti-Russian bias in favor of other nations, I find that hard to believe.

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32 minutes ago, Lert said:

Personally I find this excusable, considering -

The truth of that statement.

While the NA playerbase spends more per capita than on RU, the RU server simply houses such a hugely larger playerbase that a large portion of the revenue from WoWS comes in through that server. I'm all for historical ships being introduced and will always argue that a paper ship should never take the place of a historical one, but I for one can't really blame WG for catering to the RU server in this case.

American content will come. In time.

<Edit> I find this RU cruiser tree split a lot more palatable than the 'pan' European destroyer line.

I am not convinced the RU server has a total active population much different to the NA server. The EU server beats them both, hands down, which is why we need a Pan EU IKEA cruiser tech tree, like now! What we can see is that the RU server has been in slow decline, since a 2015 peak. Kremlin and Stalingrad have done nothing to imrove the RU server's fortunes.

image.thumb.png.788739a523e3d2c8f6574bcaf7f45b04.png

The NA server, while a little smaller, has a much more stable server population over time

image.thumb.png.3e8fbad233d878c24ed8d0d0d0e3568c.png

The EU server is quite similar to the RU server in terms of overall averages, but its population development is much healthier. Certainly not in decline. 

image.thumb.png.5773f9a339424c91822953e199d4a394.png

So why cater to the Russian server when obviously we need deserve more Swedish Dutch cruisers and Italian bbs?

 

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Why bother ourselves about this? It is going to happen. WG is a business. What I see missing from the stats are the Asian server stats. With those shown here, what we are seeing is a player base whose overall growth is essentially stagnant with the usual seasonal cyclic variations, and that is not a good sign to those of us who got into the game in Beta or when it first went live. We need to see the whole enchilada.

A lot of us older players have dropped out of the game or reduced our play time because of how the game has evolved. I am well aware that all of us have personal preferences and pet peeves, so to me this is just another blip by WG to address a local issue. That tends to put a fair number of players off. Just have to live with it.

I stopped grinding the RU cruisers when I got Budyonny for free and left it at that. Grinding Kirov is a piece of cake because I was at T4 before I got the freebee. At least she was a real ship at one point, so I take the positive from all of this.

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58 minutes ago, Lert said:

The truth of that statement.

While the NA playerbase spends more per capita than on RU, the RU server simply houses such a hugely larger playerbase that a large portion of the revenue from WoWS comes in through that server. I'm all for historical ships being introduced and will always argue that a paper ship should never take the place of a historical one, but I for one can't really blame WG for catering to the RU server in this case.

American content will come. In time.

<Edit> I find this RU cruiser tree split a lot more palatable than the 'pan' European destroyer line.

That all makes good sense.  Also, the US has a full BB line, an already split cruiser line, a full DD line, and carriers, too.  And premiums out the wazoo.  The US tree has a LOT of ships already, along with probably one of the highest real to paper ratios in the game, if not the highest.  We can wait.

The RU BBs just showed up in the last year, iirc, so the cruiser split is sort of 'catching up' the 'home team' to the US trees, and they don't have carriers.  I hope they don't bother with those, but it's up to WG.  In a navy that was in the end, built for sea denial, not sea control, CVs didn't fit till much later.  However, will be interesting to see what they do for RU subs when the time comes.  Obviously, most of the Soviet subs are far too new, but I guess they did have some in WWII.

Anyway, that's my rambles on the subject, along with agreeing with Lert on this one.

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

This is true. Kirov is 180mm in the middle of 152. And Moskva is completely different from the preceding ships. Requires completely different captain build. So it makes sense to split them off and put ships in that (I assume) fit the rest of the line better.

That's my thinking too.

1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

The extra three ship, I dunno why we need to split the line. WG must have thought they didn't have enough paper ships or something.

Do we know anything about those ships? Could they be heavy cruisers? (though I don't see why Moskva couldn't just be the T10 in that sub-line if so)

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4 hours ago, So_lt_Goes said:

     In last week's Twitch stream, Mr. Conway and Chrysantos explained that the present Kiev and Moskva do not fit the new tech tree progressions and so will be canonized as premiums.

     I'm not judging here, just relating what I heard on the stream.

This.

Its a pragmatic approach to giving players a consistent captain build progression.

Im ok with the change. The current line design is hard on the average player QoL.

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