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Shaddowze

Outsourcing DD Hunting to CV Players is Lazy Gameplay, You can kill them w/o a CV, try that.

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whats annoying is when they want you to spot DDs that you had spotted for a few mins and nobody in range or position to shoot them shot at them

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2 minutes ago, IceWolf____ said:

whats annoying is when they want you to spot DDs that you had spotted for a few mins and nobody in range or position to shoot them shot at them

Every. Time. 😂 

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I think it is a bit hopeful to expect CVs to do anything team orientated. They are only in it for the trolling factor. They hunt DDs because of this, not out of team spirit.

You can't speak sensibly of how CVs affect game play without referring to the fact that they destroy the concealment mechanic. Not just for DDs, but for light cruisers especially. A cruiser that is trying to ambush folks by sneaking up behind some rocks is likely to get exposed by a CV, and that is the end of their ambush. If they do not get blapped when they get exposed, they will be targeted by the CV in their ambush position, or force to move out into open water, where they will be blapped by everyone.

This is why we have the current meta of long range cruisers who HE spam. It is the way to farm damage, XP and credits as a cruiser. This is why WG keep introducing larger and heavier "cuisers", like the Alaska, the Puta Reek Ho, the Azuma, the Venezia (long range SAP spam) and now the new line of British HE spammers.

Put simply, CVs destroyed the game mechanic of concealment. They therefore turned cruisers into BBs, and made static long range play the normal strategy.

There is no way around this fact. CVs really do ruin the game. They make it boring, and static. They break such fundamental mechanics that they disrupt all the other ship classes entirely.

CVs are a truly spectacular example or poor game design. They are a now an international meme of how games can be ruined by design teams who simply will not listen to the people who play the game.

WG have made fools of themselves, on the world stage.

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4 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

I think it is a bit hopeful to expect CVs to do anything team orientated. They are only in it for the trolling factor. They hunt DDs because of this, not out of team spirit.

You can't speak sensibly of how CVs affect game play without referring to the fact that they destroy the concealment mechanic. Not just for DDs, but for light cruisers especially. A cruiser that is trying to ambush folks by sneaking up behind some rocks is likely to get exposed by a CV, and that is the end of their ambush. If they do not get blapped when they get exposed, they will be targeted by the CV in their ambush position, or force to move out into open water, where they will be blapped by everyone.

This is why we have the current meta of long range cruisers who HE spam. It is the way to farm damage, XP and credits as a cruiser. This is why WG keep introducing larger and heavier "cuisers", like the Alaska, the Puta Reek Ho, the Azuma, the Venezia (long range SAP spam) and now the new line of British HE spammers.

Put simply, CVs destroyed the game mechanic of concealment. They therefore turned cruisers into BBs, and made static long range play the normal strategy.

There is no way around this fact. CVs really do ruin the game. They make it boring, and static. They break such fundamental mechanics that they disrupt all the other ship classes entirely.

CVs are a truly spectacular example or poor game design. They are a now an international meme of how games can be ruined by design teams who simply will not listen to the people who play the game.

WG have made fools of themselves, on the world stage.

CVs definitely have problems but it's not fair to assume all CV players aren't team players. CC unicums =/= average players.

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6 minutes ago, Shaddowze said:

CVs definitely have problems but it's not fair to assume all CV players aren't team players. CC unicums =/= average players.

I thought that for a while. However, consider the brute logic of the case.

Everyone knows what CVs are, and what the majority of people think of them. There are no innocent CV players, who are somehow unaware of how toxic they are. This is especially true at higher tiers.

Given the level of popular discontent, who would do it? What kind of person would choose to invite such derision, and inspire such discontent?

There are such things as accidents in the world. Not everything is a deliberate conspiracy. However, if you play a high tier CV, you relish causing upset and grief in the majority of the player community. You are that guy.

Nobody plays a Midway by accident, unaware of how this affects other players. They either don't care about other folks, or they love the hate.

To pretend otherwise, is to prove the case, by continuing to deliberately inflame acrimony.

CV, thy name is troll.

Edited by SidTheBlade
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Just now, SidTheBlade said:

I thought that for a while. However, consider the brute logic of the case.

Everyone knows what CVs are, and what the majority of people think of them. There are no innocent CV players, who are somehow unaware of how toxic they are. This is especially true at higher tiers.

Given the level of popular discontent, who would do it? What kind of person would choose to invite such derision, and inspire such discontent?

There are such things as accidents in the world. Not everything is a deliberate conspiracy. However, if you play a high tier CV, you relish causing upset and grief in the majority of the player community. You are that guy.

Nobody plays a Midway by accident, unaware of how this affects other players. They either don't care about other folks, or they love the hate.

 

Oh I play Audacious and Hak as well. Good to be well rounded. Enjoying my Shima as well. :D

 

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12 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

I think it is a bit hopeful to expect CVs to do anything team orientated. They are only in it for the trolling factor. They hunt DDs because of this, not out of team spirit.

You can't speak sensibly of how CVs affect game play without referring to the fact that they destroy the concealment mechanic. Not just for DDs, but for light cruisers especially. A cruiser that is trying to ambush folks by sneaking up behind some rocks is likely to get exposed by a CV, and that is the end of their ambush. If they do not get blapped when they get exposed, they will be targeted by the CV in their ambush position, or force to move out into open water, where they will be blapped by everyone.

This is why we have the current meta of long range cruisers who HE spam. It is the way to farm damage, XP and credits as a cruiser. This is why WG keep introducing larger and heavier "cuisers", like the Alaska, the Puta Reek Ho, the Azuma, the Venezia (long range SAP spam) and now the new line of British HE spammers.

Put simply, CVs destroyed the game mechanic of concealment. They therefore turned cruisers into BBs, and made static long range play the normal strategy.

There is no way around this fact. CVs really do ruin the game. They make it boring, and static. They break such fundamental mechanics that they disrupt all the other ship classes entirely.

CVs are a truly spectacular example or poor game design. They are a now an international meme of how games can be ruined by design teams who simply will not listen to the people who play the game.

WG have made fools of themselves, on the world stage.

And yet you are still right here a part of the fools and their community.

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I think a cv player should find the dd and harrass them, its when you make them run away and ineffective, it allows your team to push up (of course this does depend on the team)

Only last night I started using a cv again and had many wins making the poor ole dd life a missery, and the team capitolized on that.

As far as damage numbers go, I don't really care so long as the team can remove the DD, push up, cap, and win.

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Just now, _Caliph_ said:

And yet you are still right here a part of the fools and their community.

I choose to believe that CV play will be relegated to an optional experience. I really like Clan Battles, for example, and many matches don't have CVs.

Like most everyone else, I have learned to tolerate CVs, because they are not yet in every game.

If they are, WG will fail cascade.

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1 minute ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

I think a cv player should find the dd and harrass them, its when you make them run away and ineffective, it allows your team to push up (of course this does depend on the team)

Only last night I started using a cv again and had many wins making the poor ole dd life a missery, and the team capitolized on that.

As far as damage numbers go, I don't really care so long as the team can remove the DD, push up, cap, and win.

Nothing more satisfying than seeing red boats fall back :D

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Yes, bad CV players are free to ignore DDs and farm damage on other ships. It's a really good way to pad your stats while keeping your win-rate low. :Smile_smile:

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Spotting and helping eliminate DD is the most useful thing a CV can do to contribute to the team winning. Or you can damage farm and keep that winrate in the red. 

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42 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

There is no way around this fact. CVs really do ruin the game. They make it boring, and static. They break such fundamental mechanics that they disrupt all the other ship classes entirely.

CVs are a truly spectacular example or poor game design. They are a now an international meme of how games can be ruined by design teams who simply will not listen to the people who play the game.

What are you talking about?  CV's make for a fantastic improvement to the meta.  Did you not play pre-rework?  The worst meta the game ever had was the one just prior to the rework, with incredibly static game play.  Fortunately this meta has been fixed by the addition and eventual balancing of CV's, which discourage static play and back line sniping, while encouraging small group team play.  I particularly love playing against CV's in my DD's - I've been playing a lot of French DD's (T8 and 10) over the last few days, and pretty much every battle has had CV's and I've had incredibly fun games because of this.  There's little more satisfying and enjoyable in this game than playing a DD and doing your job of screening, spotting, positioning the enemy, damage dealing, capping - all while baiting the CV into attacking you and then dodging RF attacks while completely wasting the CV's time.

More people should play CV's, ideally 1-2 per team every battle would be perfect.  Unfortunately we do have population problems at the moment - there are too many BB's, but not enough DD's and CV's (ignoring T4, where the AA to plane health balance is off).  If we could get to a point where we had a team comp each battle of 1-2 CV's, 3-4 BB's, 3-4 cruisers, and 3-4 DD's, the game meta would be close to perfect. 

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3 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Spotting and helping eliminate DD is the most useful thing a CV can do to contribute to the team winning. Or you can damage farm and keep that winrate in the red. 

Really so spotting the enemy red team and defending DDs from enemy air isn't important? Picking off wounded BBs etc? Huh. Weird. 

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28 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Yes, bad CV players are free to ignore DDs and farm damage on other ships. It's a really good way to pad your stats while keeping your win-rate low. :Smile_smile:

So how about those bad BB, DD and Cruiser players who can't hit them once they are spotted? Nothing eh? But I guess it is all the CV player's fault when the team loses. You guys are really rich, in fallacies that is. 

 

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I just think of  CVs as the random element you can't control in war, when I'm playing a surface ship.

If I'm in the CV, I'm being the random element, of course.  

I just figure those who hate CVs because it unmasks them are too fixated on thinking they can or should be able to control everything around them.  They shouldn't, imo.  

Even unicums that are so good at surface ships that only a CV bothers them, may be too fixated on their ability control everything around them w/o a CV to slow them down.  (Yes, I saw that Twitch. )  In combat, there are always random elements, or there should be.  If you're so great that you can control everything, then there needs something in the game that you *can't* control.

CVs represent that, imo.  However, by themselves, they don't represent the kind of objective control that's usually needed to win.  They have to help their team with spotting and damage.  Sometimes it's chasing down the DDs, sometimes it's just spotting them for your team while you put some hurt on the BBs.  If it wins, that's fine.

I just think a lot of CV-hating surface ship players think they should be able to control everything in the match, and hate CVs because they can't be easily controlled or killed like the ships near them..

EDIT: I've been watching a few unicum streamers.  They can just blow up things, avoid fire, and basically laugh at surface ship captains ad nauseum...but if carrier planes hunt them down, *even at the end of the match where they're the only target left to hunt*, they may rage because it's an element beyond their control.

 

Edited by Kirov_Six
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20 minutes ago, Shaddowze said:

CVs definitely have problems but it's not fair to assume all CV players aren't team players. CC unicums =/= average players.

The fun part about CV play is that by attempting anything truly team oriented you're actively shafting your team. As reworked CV play is a pure damage race attempting to provide fighter cover or trying to actively spot is more likely to make you lose. Everything you do must be related to dealing damage if you want to win which are really only two things: prioritizing targets (kill important stuff first) and passive fighter spotting (the more damage your teammates do the fewer strikes you have to fly).

In fact your team doing too well hurts you as a CV player as you do not get enough time to farm damage. Being a top CV player is a careful balancing act of destroying the enemy while also trolling your own team if possible. Because when you're playing CV you're not playing 12 vs 12. You're playing 1 vs 23 (well, 22 really since you basically do not interact with the enemy CV). This is also why (assuming sufficient skill) the only ones that can actually make you lose is your own team by dying too fast.

Like it or not, this is what reworked CV play boils down to. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

2 minutes ago, Kirov_Six said:

CVs represent that, imo.  However, by themselves, they don't represent the kind of objective control that's usually needed to win.

200.gif

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4 minutes ago, Kirov_Six said:

I just think of  CVs as the random element you can't control in war, when I'm playing a surface ship.

If I'm in the CV, I'm being the random element, of course.  

I just figure those who hate CVs because it unmasks them are too fixated on thinking they can or should be able to control everything around them.  They shouldn't, imo.  

Even unicums that are so good at surface ships that only a CV bothers them, may be too fixated on their ability control everything around them w/o a CV to slow them down.  (Yes, I saw that Twitch. )  In combat, there are always random elements, or there should be.  If you're so great that you can control everything, then there needs something in the game that you *can't* control.

CVs represent that, imo.  However, by themselves, they don't represent the kind of objective control that's usually needed to win.  They have to help their team with spotting and damage.  Sometimes it's chasing down the DDs, sometimes it's just spotting them for your team while you put some hurt on the BBs.  If it wins, that's fine.

I just think a lot of CV-hating surface ship players think they should be able to control everything in the match, and hate CVs because they can't be easily controlled or killed like the ships near them..

 

 

 

So they are kinda like...Chaos? :D

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Just now, Shaddowze said:

So they are kinda like...Chaos? :D

For a player who is used to controlling everything around them, and can counter everything...that's probably as close as an answer as I can think of.

 

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3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

The fun part about CV play is that by attempting anything truly team oriented you're actively shafting your team.

K.

4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

In fact your team doing too well hurts you as a CV player as you do not get enough time to farm damage.

Oohkay...time to choose a lane here I think.

4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

You're playing 1 vs 23 (well, 22 really since you basically do not interact with the enemy CV).

Wot?

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17 minutes ago, Shaddowze said:

K.

Yup. Assuming roughly equal skill a CV that tries to actively spot and provide fighter cover for his teammates will actually lose to a CV that does nothing but focus on dealing damage. This is because fighters are actually worthless in an air interception role due to a combination of their mechanics and the massive reserves reworked CVs can field while passively spotting with fighters naturally allows you to spot AND deal damage at the same time.

E.g. attempting to defend your DDs from enemy strikes is not only wasting time that could be spent dealing damage but in reality does nothing but give their position away to any seasoned CV player.

I'm pretty much a pure CV player nowadays btw.

 

17 minutes ago, Shaddowze said:

Oohkay...time to choose a lane here I think.

Basic example:
A low HP DD teammate gets into a fight with an enemy DD that will kill him. You know due to being so far ahead in points that the next enemy killed will decide the match. So instead of helping your DD teammate kill the enemy DD immediately, you wait until your teammate dies before swooping in to keep the match going, allowing you to farm more damage.

This kinda applies to all classes but especially to CVs due to their unique characteristics.

 

17 minutes ago, Shaddowze said:

Wot?

Due to the abysmal average playing standard playing CVs usually boils down to attempting to kill the enemy team faster than your teammates die off. Because nothing the enemy does will actually prevent you from killing them the biggest fight you tend to face is against the stupidity of your teammates more often than not.

Against any enemy ship you control the engagement by virtue of being a CV. There is really nothing you can do to control your teammates.

Edited by El2aZeR
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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

attempting to defend your DDs from enemy strikes is not only wasting time that could be spent dealing damage but in reality does nothing but give their position away to any seasoned CV player.

giphy.webp

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If a CV player can, going after the DDs is one of the best things they can do. It isn't always a viable thing though. 

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1 hour ago, Tekina_ said:

If a CV player can, going after the DDs is one of the best things they can do. It isn't always a viable thing though. 

Same can be said of any ship. 

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