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Starfleet1701

My Proposed, European Battleship line

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These Are designs from 3 different countries: Austria-Hungary, Spain and Netherlands. (though mostly Austria-Hungary). I've found some designs that may possibly work with the tiers, but some would need to have some tweaks to armor and speed. Since, Wargaming has made tweaks like that on many existing vessels in-game; so it's sort of  reasonable. AA armaments can installed to them through a series of hypothetical loadouts.

Tier 3: (Constructed design) 

España class: (Spanish design)                                                                                                                                                                                             

  • Armament: 8-12(305 mm) inch guns / 20-4 (102 mm) inch guns
  • Armor: 8 inch (203 mm) armor belt 
  • Speed: 19.5 knots (could increase this to, 20 knots since it is basically 20 knots if rounded)

 

Tier 4: (Paper design, though based on a constructed one)

Project 6a: (Austro-Hungarian design) This is basically an Austrian version of the Wyoming. This is a preliminary design of the Viribus Unitis. But it has a lot of inspiration from the Wyoming

  • Armament: 10-12 (305 mm) inch guns (all in duel turrets) / 18- 4 (102 mm) inch guns (single mounts, some in casemates) (edited: miscounted the number of main guns it has, but still would work pretty well for the tier.)
  • Armor: 9 inch (230 mm) armor belt: This could be tweaked  to 10 inch belt (254 mm)
  • Speed: 20.5 knots: (This could be tweaked to 21 knots, since if rounded it's basically 21 knots) 

 

Tier 5: (Paper design)

1913 proposal: (Dutch design) This would be similer to the Pyotr Veliky

  • Armament: 8-14 (356 mm) inch guns / 16- 5.9 (150 mm) inch guns
  • Armor: 9.8 inch (250 mm) armor belt: This could be increased to 10 inch belt (254), since if rounded it would be 10 inch.
  • Speed: 25 knots 

 

Tier 6: (Paper design)

Erastz Monarch class: (Austro-Hungarian design)

  • Armament: 10-14 (356 mm) inch guns / 14 -5.9 (150 mm) inch guns 
  • Armor: 12.2 inch (310 mm) armor belt: This could be tweaked a little to maybe 13 inches (340 mm).
  • Speed: 21 knots: This could be tweaked to maybe 23 knots

 

Tier 7: (Paper design, though based on a constructed one)

Project 3, Design 1917: (Austro-Hungarian design) basically it's an improved Austrian version of Queen Elizabeth and Bayern classes. 

  • Armament: 8- 15 (380 mm) inch guns / 18-5.9 (150 mm) inch guns
  • Armor: 12 inch (305 mm) armor belt: (This could be increased to aprox 14 inches (356 mm), and make the armor scheme turtle backed.
  • Speed: 25 knots: ( I don't see any reason why this cant be increased to 26 knots, it would still be faster than most tier 7s)

 

Tier 8: (Paper design, though based on a constructed one)

Spanish Littorios: (Spanish design, duh) After the Spanish Civil war, the Spanish wanted a new modern battleship to be based on the Italian Littorio class. The Spanish were going to get Italian assistance in building it. Spain built the necessary facilities to construct the vessel, but due to Italy's entrance into the 2nd World War. The construction was ultimately cancelled.

  • Armament: ( Since this was supposed to be based on the Littorio class (basically Roma), it is logical to assume the armament would've been the same, but little different) 9-15 (380 mm) inch guns / 12- 6 (152 mm) inch guns
  • Armor: 12 inch (305 mm) armor belt
  • Speed: 30 knots

 

Tier 9: (Paper design)

Project 5, Design 1917: (Austro-Hungarian, design), This would have to be hypothetical modernized version of the original design. This design uses the largest guns designed by Austria-Hungary, these guns would've been in 4 duel turrets all in super firing.

  • Armament: 8- 16.5 (420 mm) inch guns / 20- 5.9 inch guns ( these could be put in duel mounts and could be DP guns, duel purpose,) Duel purpose meaning could shoot both surface and aerial targets. The orginal design called for 20 single mounts and 4 DP single mount guns, So I chose to unify the armament to be all DP guns.
  • Armor: 15 inch (380 mm) armor belt: (original design called for, 12 inch armor belt; But. Sense, 12 inches does seem to be too thin for the tier. So I think it should increased by 3 inches and be made turtle backed scheme similar to Fredrich Der Grosse.) 
  • Speed: Maximum upgrade 30 knots: (The original design would've been 24 knots, but since the speed is too slow for tier 9. I increased the speed by 6 knots to be more like Friedrich Der grosse)

 

Tier 10: (Paper design)

Project 13C, Design 1914: (Austro-Hungarian, design), This would also be a Hypothetical modernized version of the original design. Note: that the original design actually called 12-14 inch guns, I replaced the 14 inch guns with the 16.5 inch guns used on Project 5 ( so it would be more fitting for tier 10). Sense there are no Austrian battleship designs that called for anything more than 8-16.5 inch guns. The guns would've been in 4 triple turrets all in super firing. So the armament, I gave it would be similar to Grosser Kurfurst's. I added the letter C to represent it's modified from the original design, this of course would have to be bigger than the original design to accommodate the larger gun caliber

  • Armament: 12- 16.5 inch (420 mm) guns / 20- 5.9 inch(150 mm) guns (duel mounts), perhaps DP guns. 
  • Armor: 15 inch armor belt: (This could be tweaked to 16 inches, and its armor scheme would also be turtle backed.)
  • Speed: 30 knots  
     

 I made most of the line out of Austro-Hungarian battleship desgins, but used a couple of Spanish ones and 1 Dutch. I had to use a lot of paper designs. Since Spain only really built 1 class of dreadnought battleships. The Netherlands built a few coastal battleships, but nothing really serious, but they had some 1 design of dreadnought battleships and a battlecruiser design, the battleship design is what I used.  For Austria-Hungary, also built one class of dreadnought battleships (which is the Viribus Unitis class, also known as the Teggetthoff class) Austria-Hungary built a class of semi-dreadnoughts, and a bunch of pre-dreadnoughts. But, the Semi-dreadnoughts had a mix caliber armament and would be kind of awkward to use in-game.

Anyway, what do you guys think? I'm open to suggestions, for updating this. I'll update this later and put some pictures to give somewhat an idea what, I'm talking about. 

Edited: I got the pictures up for some of the designs, should be in order from tiers 3-10. 

 

 

Premium Tier 6 (Paper design) 

Holland class: (Dutch design) these were Dutch battlecruisers that would be given an armament similar to Scharnhorst and the Netherlands would've received German assistance on the project. The Netherlands lacked heavy surface units in its fleet, this was there response to the problem. Ironically, the project was cancelled because Germany chose to invade.

  • Armament: 9-11 inch guns (280 mm) / 12-5 inch guns (actually really more like 4.7 inch, 120 mm) 
  • Armor: 9.8 inch armor belt: (250 mm), we could tweak it to 10 inches (254 mm). Or maybe 11 inches (280 mm) 
  • Speed: 33 knots 

The gameplay for this is to be more like a glass cannon, fast and with a quick reload. But relatively poor armor. (Note: the 2nd to last picture is the, photo of this ship) 

 

Premium Tier 4 or 5 (construction started, hull launched, but never completed)

Salamis (Σαλαμίς): (Greek desgin) The Royal Hellenic navy lacked heavy surface units within its fleet. The heaviest vessel in its fleet was the Georgis Averof, but its gun caliber is small in comparison to the reported Ottoman battleships that were reported, to be under construction. During, Greco-Turkish war of 1897 the performance of the Royal Hellenic navy against its main rival, Ottoman Empire (Turkey) was less than satasfactory. The Greeks wanted a new battleship that could rival the larger vessels of the Ottoman navy. The Greeks, like the Ottomans, ordered this new battleship to be built abroad, more specifically in Germany. But with, the start of hostilities of the Great war (WW1) this meant that the order of the U.S made 14 inch guns never arrived in Hamburg, due to the Royal navy blockade of Germany.(Britain, "apropriated the guns", the British have a bad habit on taking things that's not their's). Thus eventally the ship was scrapped.

  • Armament: 8-14 inch guns (356 mm), 12-6 inch guns (152 mm) (all in casemates)
  • Armor: 9.8 inch armor belt (250 mm) 
  • Speed: 21 knots 

The gameplay for this ship is supposed to be more of a glass cannon type ship, its armor is mediocre. Its guns are the largest of her tier but her armor and AA defense suite is less than ideal. (the very last picture, is the drawling of the ship) 

 

 

(Note: I didn't include Ottoman battleship designs, I'm aware they had some that would fit in this tree. Given that a part of their country is in Europe; however. Most of Turkey is in West Asia, it is because of this that I didn't include their designs. As I'm not too certain if they could be classified as European or an Asian country.)

Espana_class_line-drawing,_Brassey_1911.png

viribus_unitis_battleship_preliminary_designs_by_tzoli-dbjp31k (2).png

Dutch_1913_battleship_proposal.jpg

Ersatz_Monarch_Line_Drawing.png

austro_hungarian_project_iii_battleship_design_by_tzoli-dbylbow.png

d4cl416-ebbf71b1-d827-4599-b32d-d8a0f252a356.png

austro_hungarian_project_v_battleship_design_by_tzoli-dbz08pf.png

ersatz_monarch_preliminary_designs_ix_xvi_by_tzoli-dbvr9hy (2).png

holland.gif

Battleship_Salamis.jpg

Edited by Starfleet1701
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to be honest I was kind of hoping for something like the pan Asian line turned out to be. it's kind of interesting to play a line where there isn't necessarily a linear progression of design elements so each tier is much more unique than the normal single nation tech trees. for example, you proposed upping the armor and gun calibers. but maybe it might be fun to have a weaker armored BB but with guns that had a reload somewhere between 15-20 seconds with BB penetration, and adjust the armor so it causes more bounces/deflections instead. I don't know how logical it would be-there is a reason so many of the ships you propose are paper, the nations weren't capable of making their designs reality.

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I thought this was inpossible. 

Do you have any drawnings of the tier 9 and 10?

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2 hours ago, Talleyrand said:

I thought this was inpossible. 

Do you have any drawnings of the tier 9 and 10?

I do, I have to add them later, was at work when I posted it and currently away from a computer right now. 

When I get back home I'll post some of the photos.

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10 hours ago, Leslie_Reigart said:

to be honest I was kind of hoping for something like the pan Asian line turned out to be. it's kind of interesting to play a line where there isn't necessarily a linear progression of design elements so each tier is much more unique than the normal single nation tech trees. for example, you proposed upping the armor and gun calibers. but maybe it might be fun to have a weaker armored BB but with guns that had a reload somewhere between 15-20 seconds with BB penetration, and adjust the armor so it causes more bounces/deflections instead. I don't know how logical it would be-there is a reason so many of the ships you propose are paper, the nations weren't capable of making their designs reality.

I do kind like the idea, but. Many of these designs are WW1 era. I do kind of doubt that they would've developed a quick reload 14 inch gun. However, since this is a game, it's plausible.

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You could put in the WWI hulls at higher tiers if you create a proposed modernization refit. The Bayern and Amagi come to mind.

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2 hours ago, Arri_Shi said:

You could put in the WWI hulls at higher tiers if you create a proposed modernization refit. The Bayern and Amagi come to mind.

Well they're all WW1 era desgins (exception of the Spanish Littorios), I propose for the higher tiers make a few modernized refits and some for the mid-tiers.

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5 hours ago, Talleyrand said:

I thought this was inpossible. 

Do you have any drawnings of the tier 9 and 10?

I just added some photos, you can take a look if you'd like

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4 hours ago, Starfleet1701 said:

I do kind of doubt that they would've developed a quick reload 14 inch gun. However, since this is a game, it's plausible.

Assume they could have been regunned in their modernizations. New model guns with better elevation fit into the old turrets. Possibly even a slightly smaller gun with better ROF and range. The modernizations better also include dropping those casemate guns for some DP guns (think US WWI BBs). AA on most of these looks pathetic

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definitely AA would need to be upped, at least past tier 4. WW1 AA wasn't really a thing, kind of like carrier aviation (seriously, the 1st "bombs" were pilots dropping grenades over the side). but any ship surviving into WW2 was most definitely going to see planes, given the area they are from even quite a bit of land based planes

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1 hour ago, Leslie_Reigart said:

definitely AA would need to be upped, at least past tier 4. WW1 AA wasn't really a thing, kind of like carrier aviation (seriously, the 1st "bombs" were pilots dropping grenades over the side). but any ship surviving into WW2 was most definitely going to see planes, given the area they are from even quite a bit of land based planes

That's why I said for some of them would have to receive a hypothetical  modernization hulls. I didn't expect for these to put in as they are. Also I'm about to put a suggested premium, show it in a minute.

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12 hours ago, spmdougherty said:

I would replace the Tier 4 with the Salamis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_battleship_Salamis

Problem is it would have the largest guns of its tier and it wouldn't fit very well at line tier 4 since I got Dutch battleship at tier 5, that had same armament. Also, tier 4s generally have more guns than the tier 3s but not bigger. So, I tried to follow that general rule there.

But, hmm...Perhaps as a premium for the Salamis? What you think? And what tier as a premium?

Edited by Starfleet1701

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6 hours ago, Starfleet1701 said:

Problem is it would have the largest guns of its tier and it wouldn't fit very well at line tier 4 since I got Dutch battleship at tier 5, that had same armament. Also, tier 4s generally have more guns than the tier 3s but not bigger. So, I tried to follow that general rule there.

But, hmm...Perhaps as a premium for the Salamis? What you think? And what tier as a premium?

Myogi has 356MM at T4

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3 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Myogi has 356MM at T4

It has crappy armor and it only has 6 guns. The Orion has 13 inch at tier 4. But it has crappy AP. 

Those are the only two exceptions. If you look at all the other 4s the rule applies.

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9 hours ago, spmdougherty said:

It's a down-tier Prince Eitel Fredrich basically. And we know how meh the PEF is.

Salamis does have American 14"/45 (a la New York) rather than the German 350mm/45, which may help. 

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So, just going to throw this out there:

As much as I would like to see Salamis come into the game, I'm not sure the it would make sense as anything but a premium. OTOH, I think there is a battleship that absolutely can fill the tier IV spot more naturally- the Reina Victoria Eugenia-class. Basically Orions built for Spain.

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On 2/10/2020 at 8:23 AM, Trophy_Wench said:

So, just going to throw this out there:

As much as I would like to see Salamis come into the game, I'm not sure the it would make sense as anything but a premium. OTOH, I think there is a battleship that absolutely can fill the tier IV spot more naturally- the Reina Victoria Eugenia-class. Basically Orions built for Spain.

I was debating weather the Reina Victoria or the current one I got. I figured I would stay with the general rule. 

 

On 2/10/2020 at 3:04 PM, spmdougherty said:

I could see this.

 

I was also debating to put the Kilka (the 13 inch Greek Bretagne) at tier 5. Or something different at 5. I figured would go with something little different.

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On 2/10/2020 at 8:23 AM, Trophy_Wench said:

So, just going to throw this out there:

As much as I would like to see Salamis come into the game, I'm not sure the it would make sense as anything but a premium. OTOH, I think there is a battleship that absolutely can fill the tier IV spot more naturally- the Reina Victoria Eugenia-class. Basically Orions built for Spain.

What tier you recommend the Salamis to be at? I was thinking of it being a premium also.

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9 hours ago, Starfleet1701 said:

What tier you recommend the Salamis to be at? I was thinking of it being a premium also.

It's, tough to say. She's either a strong tier IV or a weak tier V. But given her armor scheme and the fact that, at least as the design showed for Hellenic service, minimal to no AA whatsoever; I'd put her in as IV. A glass cannon with American gun handling and battlecruiser mobility.

As for the 'RVE', it's interesting that she could potentially show up as a tier VI as well, if she was built wither her original 15" guns instead of the 13.5" ones. I personally wouldn't put it there but I do find it funny that you could theoretically have a line of British made, Pan-European BBs all the way up to tier VI!

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24 minutes ago, Trophy_Wench said:

It's, tough to say. She's either a strong tier IV or a weak tier V. But given her armor scheme and the fact that, at least as the design showed for Hellenic service, minimal to no AA whatsoever; I'd put her in as IV. A glass cannon with American gun handling and battlecruiser mobility.

As for the 'RVE', it's interesting that she could potentially show up as a tier VI as well, if she was built wither her original 15" guns instead of the 13.5" ones. I personally wouldn't put it there but I do find it funny that you could theoretically have a line of British made, Pan-European BBs all the way up to tier VI!

Hmm... alright a premium 4. Her armor would be Similar to Project 6a, that I currently have at tier 4.

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