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Rear_Admiral_Benson

HE Spam Issue

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While not all might agree with me, but many will and that is the prevalence of ships capable of high rates of fire coupled with HE. It is especially noticeable at the higher tiers.

I was considering a means to inject a viable counter to this without nerfing the applicable ships. It seems like yesterday we were introduced to the Minotaur and told its reason for not getting HE was it would break the game... Kind of like no subs and Yama.Mush will always have the biggest guns. But I digress...

What about a barrel temperature gauge that increases as one fires its main guns. In regard to boats with higher RoF, the temperature would steadily climb as sustained fire was made. The player would then have to slow his/her RoF or risk an incapacitation which would require a DCP to remedy or, if done too often or ignored, would result in the turret being destroyed - no different than what can occur currently if receiving hits from enemy ships. It wouldn't need to be super sensitive, but enough that a ship like the Smolensk couldn't just sit in a smoke with another one and lob HE unspotted for minutes on end seemingly consequence free. It would force players in these boats to be more selective with when and how much they shoot and, in my opinion, help negate a lot of the hatred geared toward said types of boats. 

I would even take it a step further and add radar instruments be made into something which too can be damaged or destroyed. But that may be its own topic.

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Getting HE spammed in a Battleship? Shoot back for a free dev strike

Getting radared in a Destroyer? Shoot back for a free kill

Getting dropped by a CV in any surface ship? Alt+F4

Seriously HE spam is so easy to counterplay and is only a problem if you make serious mistakes (in which you deserve to be punished) same goes for radar. 

The only thing that needs to be nerfed is CVs, not things that you can prevent by learning how to play the game. 

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I hear about too much HE spam but when ever I set out to start a fire, they never happen or they happen once get put out, then won't happen again until the cooldown is already done. Except for me, I seem to burn freely, that's just how I play, on fire.

Edited by Sovereigndawg
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10 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Getting HE spammed in a Battleship? Shoot back for a free dev strike

Getting radared in a Destroyer? Shoot back for a free kill

Getting dropped by a CV in any surface ship? Alt+F4

Seriously HE spam is so easy to counterplay and is only a problem if you make serious mistakes (in which you deserve to be punished) same goes for radar. 

The only thing that needs to be nerfed is CVs, not things that you can prevent by learning how to play the game. 

If you don't mind, I was looking for serious discussion... Not ridiculous, over simplified nonsense. Nothing you wrote has a semblance of reality to it. 

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1 minute ago, Rear_Admiral_Benson said:

If you don't mind, I was looking for serious discussion... Not ridiculous, over simplified nonsense. Nothing you wrote has a semblance of reality to it. 

If you are looking for a serious discussion, Id advice you not to throw insults, especially when I am telling you the truth.

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17 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Getting HE spammed in a Battleship? Shoot back for a free dev strike

Getting radared in a Destroyer? Shoot back for a free kill

Getting dropped by a CV in any surface ship? Alt+F4

Seriously HE spam is so easy to counterplay and is only a problem if you make serious mistakes (in which you deserve to be punished) same goes for radar. 

The only thing that needs to be nerfed is CVs, not things that you can prevent by learning how to play the game. 

Yeah except when said HE spammer is hiding in smoke you can’t shoot them, when said HE spammer is hiding behind an island, you can’t shoot them.
The only viable counter to HE spam in a BB is to sit in the back of the map out of their range. OHHHH that’s right, players complain about BB doing that but then complain when when the BB actually tries to help and dies because he moved up. You can’t bob and weave out of it in a BB.  
I love your logic of “shoot back for a free kill” in a dd. Because a dd is totally gonna beat a Worcester or a DM in a gun fight. lol. 
 

but I’d honestly say you have a pretty biased opinion on this matter considering the 5 or 6 games I’ve played with you, you’ve always been in the Kita or Haru, with range mod, HE spamming BB and dmg farming. Lol. I’ve never seen you play anything else, I’m sure you do but.. that’s all I’ve ever seen. 

Edited by Shenanigans_Abound
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Just now, DolphinPrincess said:

If you are looking for a serious discussion, Id advice you not to throw insults, especially when I am telling you the truth.

You're not telling me any truth... Radared in a DD, shoot back for a free kill? Because DDs are renown for their ability to outgun CAs with radar... Assuming they're not parked on the opposite side of an island? Or the HE lobbers that are ALWAYS spotted and visible to BB players because BBs always have a teammate there to counter it or can out spot the DD or CL responsible?

Like I said, it's a silly, oversimplified "solution". You're offering elementary advice that doesn't present itself as a scenario in the majority of situations. Most players, even average ones, know how to insulate themselves from the obvious counter play... Or did you think it's a coincidence the Smolensk is being pulled from the armoury due to its popularity flooding high tier games?

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5 minutes ago, neptunes_wrath said:

Ke5wzYf.jpg

Has someone genuinely suggested the barrel temp thing I have before? If so, I'm sorry. I didn't see it.

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Getting HE spammed in a tier 10 BB??? Fire back at them... Cruisers at tier 10 ESPECIALLY the MINO can be citadel at any angle...

There is no such thing as bow tanking/angling shots for cruisers... All you need is 6 AP shells from a BB and its over for the HE spammer...

THAT is 6 shells, NOT 6 salvos...

Edited by Navalpride33
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4 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Getting HE spammed in a tier 10 BB??? Fire back at them... Cruisers at tier 10 ESPECIALLY the MINO can be citadel at any angle...

There is no such thing as bow tanking/angling shots for cruisers... All you need is 6 AP shells from a BB and its over for the HE spammer...

THAT is 6 shells, NOT 6 salvos...

Might as well be six salvos to kill a CL. A typical salvo from the Großer Kurfürst against one of the HE spammers could go something like six shells in the air, two of them hit, one of which is an overpen, and the other a full pen eaten by a turret for no damage. Or if you open up your broadside, twelve shells in the air, four hit for three overpens and A DEFLECTION against a broadside CL. Repeat ad infinitum ad nauseum until you get burned to the waterline. Playing the Tier X GK is like playing the lottery. Yeah, sometimes you get lucky and win big, but most of the time, it's a fat money sink.

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Why do people think HE spammers are always out in the open? Why is that always the first solution someone offers? “Shoot them” like “no way, I had no idea you could do that”

they’re either hiding in smoke or hiding behind an island where you can’t see them to shoot them or my personal favorite, using rudder shift that apparently allows a 15 ton ship to turn on a dime. As was pointed out above there is dd players who are HE spamming themselves and doing no spotting for the team.

 

The biggest issue for this game isn’t really the HE spam it’s the lack of team play that makes it worse than it needs to be. If DD would spot for the team like they should be doing HE spammers wouldn’t be able to hide as well, if cruisers supported dd like they should be instead of HE spamming and dmg farming themselves then the dd wouldn’t be scared to spot, if the cruisers would support the dd then the dd would spot and the BB wouldn’t be forced to sit in the back and they could actually move up and support the cruisers who are supporting the DD. it’s just a never ending cycle with no end in sight. 
player seem to think that dmg is the most important thing, you can dmg farm a bunch of ships all game but if the team collapses all around you that 200k means nothing.

You get more xp for a win and 70k dmg and no kills than you do a loss and 200k dmg and 3 kills. It’s not really the players fault because WG has the game set up that dmg and xp go hand in hand.. that’s what has ruined the game. 

Edited by Shenanigans_Abound

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6 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Getting HE spammed in a tier 10 BB??? Fire back at them... Cruisers at tier 10 ESPECIALLY the MINO can be citadel at any angle...

There is no such thing as bow tanking/angling shots for cruisers... All you need is 6 AP shells from a BB and its over for the HE spammer...

THAT is 6 shells, NOT 6 salvos...

Right...because you will totally land 6 direct hits on a smoked target, ignoring bounces and overpens, and do dev strike every time.

Player skill can compensate against these flamethrowers, sure. But to the majority of players, potato and unicum alike, they just get burned down by an invisible spammer. The mere presence of one of these cancer boats is so frustrating to play against, it's not healthy to the game.

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1 minute ago, AbyssAngkor said:

Right...because you will totally land 6 direct hits on a smoked target, ignoring bounces and overpens, and do dev strike every time.

Player skill can compensate against these flamethrowers, sure. But to the majority of players, potato and unicum alike, they just get burned down by an invisible spammer. The mere presence of one of these cancer boats is so frustrating to play against, it's not healthy to the game.

The whole high tier gaming experience is awful.... I rather have a root canal from a student dentist then deal with a 20min high tier game...

As long as

  • AP spam
    • Remember it tales 6 shells to sink a cruiser
  • Fire spam
    • Burn down a BB in 5 min
  • Plane spam/harassment

Exist in the tier....I'll pass.

 

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4 minutes ago, Rear_Admiral_Benson said:

Did anyone want to discuss the merits of my proposal on barrel temps rather than the silly argument of whether or not HE spam is x?

 It's not bad

But i have no problems with HE spam 

 That's the problem I have with your argument

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7 minutes ago, Rear_Admiral_Benson said:

Did anyone want to discuss the merits of my proposal on barrel temps rather than the silly argument of whether or not HE spam is x?

Because a proposal on barrel temps is because HE spam is or is not x.

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11 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Because a proposal on barrel temps is because HE spam is or is not x.

Well, I'm clearly of the argument that it's an issue to some extent. I wholly reject the simplistic notion that it's an easy thing to counter - it really isn't. Most players know how to insulate themselves and someone up there echoed my observations quite well. Despite this being a strategic team play based game, it often isn't. Randoms has taught me time and time again you can't rely on players to play cooperatively and to their ship's strengths/purposes to allow for cohesive counter play to a myriad of obstacles you'll face. What I don't want to delve into is the argument that it's game breaking, not an issue, or to what degree. So, as I predicated upon in the OP, would my proposal not inject a little bit of a mitigation to simple spamming and force players to be a little more decisive with it?

Edited by Rear_Admiral_Benson
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14 minutes ago, Rear_Admiral_Benson said:

Did anyone want to discuss the merits of my proposal on barrel temps rather than the silly argument of whether or not HE spam is x?

Lets add it to the AP spammers since the MINO dont have HE... I am in favor of AP AND HE main gun temp... As long as its loaded to every ship with guns equally OR punish the higher caliber ships more...

Not a bad idea. Will not work for WOWS...

 

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41 minutes ago, Rear_Admiral_Benson said:

You're not telling me any truth... Radared in a DD, shoot back for a free kill? Because DDs are renown for their ability to outgun CAs with radar... Assuming they're not parked on the opposite side of an island? Or the HE lobbers that are ALWAYS spotted and visible to BB players because BBs always have a teammate there to counter it or can out spot the DD or CL responsible?

Like I said, it's a silly, oversimplified "solution". You're offering elementary advice that doesn't present itself as a scenario in the majority of situations. Most players, even average ones, know how to insulate themselves from the obvious counter play... Or did you think it's a coincidence the Smolensk is being pulled from the armoury due to its popularity flooding high tier games?

Denying the truth will get you no where on the conversation nor the discussion.

You are free to disagree, but do understand that you are a 1119 rating player trying to argue against a 4317 rating player

This is like a person who just learned how to set up chess pieces trying to argue against a grandmaster.

I can write a long explanation on why my statement is true but you have to be willing to listen first, otherwise I will not waste my time trying to explain to an ignorant person.

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18 minutes ago, Rear_Admiral_Benson said:

Did anyone want to discuss the merits of my proposal on barrel temps rather than the silly argument of whether or not HE spam is x?

Sorry to tell you the forums are the last place for a serious discussion. 

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47 minutes ago, Rear_Admiral_Benson said:

Has someone genuinely suggested the barrel temp thing I have before? If so, I'm sorry. I didn't see it.

several times over several years....

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20 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Denying the truth will get you no where on the conversation nor the discussion.

You are free to disagree, but do understand that you are a 1119 rating player trying to argue against a 4317 rating player

This is like a person who just learned how to set up chess pieces trying to argue against a grandmaster.

I can write a long explanation on why my statement is true but you have to be willing to listen first, otherwise I will not waste my time trying to explain to an ignorant person.

So if you're a 4317 player, you can blat a CA with a DD guns while spotted by its radar? Sorry, maybe one day I'll be a pro and have the game meta warp to my favour to allow for that.... But down here in my humble, casual gaming sphere, my little DDs don't get to outgun CAs.

Edited by Rear_Admiral_Benson
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6 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Lets add it to the AP spammers since the MINO dont have HE... I am in favor of AP AND HE main gun temp... As long as its loaded to every ship with guns equally OR punish the higher caliber ships more...

Not a bad idea. Will not work for WOWS...

 

It would absolutely have to be on every main gun in game. BBs wouldn't have to worry about it as consequence of their slow reload and so forth.

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