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X01_ISAAC_7

Destroyer shoots down 100 planes. "AA is useless" - Numerous CCs

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@Notser, @NoZoupForYou @iChase and Flamu, but I don't know his handle.

This video is not one I have made. All credit goes to TopTier for the video and RotStuka from SAROC clan on the Asia server for the replay.

Yes, I understand the following:
1. It's a USS Kidd, whose's gimmick was DFAA and strong AA auras and a heal on a DD at tier 8.
2. It's a tier 8 match and there was also a tier 6 ranger on the enemy team.
3. He was divisioned up with a carrier.

 

My return arguments are as follows for everyone else still whining about AA defenses and DFAA in this game:
1. Flamu has pointed out that sector priority system and AA as a whole are broken, with DFAA being entirely and utterly useless with no point to taking such a consumable when this video is proof it really isn't as bad as he and other CCs and streamers constantly repeat ad nauseum.
2. Not only was he under attack from the Ranger, but he was also coming under attack from the Shokaku.
3. His division mate did not provide any fighter support that entire match to him. He was quite literally on his own.

 

This was still just a destroyer, and a badly power-creeped one at that. He was constantly being spotted by enemy planes and had taken plenty of damage not only from them but enemy surface ships as well.

Why is it then that we continue to decry and bemoan CVs when ships such as Kremlin, Smolensk, Stalingrad, and Colbert remain in the game and unchanged? The carrier rework isn't the problem plaguing this game at the moment. It's the gross proliferation of HE spamming ships (Smolensk, Colbert) and greatly over-powered ships that have few, if any, meaningful weaknesses (Kremlin, Stalingrad).

Why is our anger turned to carriers and not the real cancer in this game that I've stated above? Why do the CCs, when they feature "proof" that AA is broken, only ever seem to post videos of them going around in tier 4 and tier 6 CVs (where I freely do admit, the AA discrepancy is vastly favoring the planes and nowhere nearly balanced properly. drop CV plane health at lower tiers a bit or buff AA numbers at lower tiers a bit) with the case-in-point being NoZoup's most recent video on it where he went out and purposefully hunted down destroyers AT LOW TIERS that literally don't HAVE any AA and where low tier CVs are unable to drop fighters to even attempt to protect friendlies? C'mon you guys. You're supposed to be CCs. Stop featuring only the replays and instances that only support your opinions and start looking for other instances like above where there's valid evidence that the opposite can also be true. Where things DO work, and in some instances quite spectacularly.

These constant calls for nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, and broken this, broken that, DDs are dead, the sky is falling for destroyers (no pun intended) are frankly quite old now and seriously not helping -anyone-. Not only that, but you're encouraging toxic behavior by fanning the flames of anger. I've lost track of the number of times I've been called sky cancer (and worse) in game, as well as to go kill myself for playing such a ship class.

I played back in closed beta. I remember what the old CVs were like, where if a carrier wanted you dead, you were dead in a single strike. The chance for "counter play" back then was pretty much non-existent for surface ships beyond clicking a single squadron and/or popping DFAA if you were lucky enough to have it. And usually the planes were gonna get through anyway. The alpha damage was insane for a single attack from multiple squadrons and if you were lucky enough to survive (depending on what you were in), you were usually so badly crippled that the enemy team could easily finish you off if the CV didn't come back for a second (and quite often fatal) strike.

I literally cannot be the only person here who plays destroyers still who doesn't know how to press the 'P' key and turn off my AA guns. Seriously, the air detectability range for most destroyers is so small before camo, modules (tier 8+), and captain's skills factor in, it's hard enough for a CV to spot you as is unless they're right over top of you. If your AA guns are on and they start shooting, you are BROADCASTING where you are. Stop making it easier on carrier players!

 

Ugh. Rant off. Go ahead and start the flood of laughing/angry/bored/downvote responses. I had to get this off my chest after that last video from NoZoup on this matter cause what he said pissed me off to no frigging end, especially with his "evidence" of that low-tier gameplay he offered. Seriously Zoup. I respect you as one of the few sane voices left who wants ALL ship classes (future subs included) in the game to succeed. Don't start slipping and turning into certain other CCs, dude. Please. I am begging you.

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10 minutes ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

 

@Notser, @NoZoupForYou @iChase and Flamu, but I don't know his handle.

This video is not one I have made. All credit goes to TopTier for the video and RotStuka from SAROC clan on the Asia server for the replay.

Yes, I understand the following:
1. It's a USS Kidd, whose's gimmick was DFAA and strong AA auras and a heal on a DD at tier 8.
2. It's a tier 8 match and there was also a tier 6 ranger on the enemy team.
3. He was divisioned up with a carrier.

 

My return arguments are as follows for everyone else still whining about AA defenses and DFAA in this game:
1. Flamu has pointed out that sector priority system and AA as a whole are broken, with DFAA being entirely and utterly useless with no point to taking such a consumable when this video is proof it really isn't as bad as he and other CCs and streamers constantly repeat ad nauseum.
2. Not only was he under attack from the Ranger, but he was also coming under attack from the Shokaku.
3. His division mate did not provide any fighter support that entire match to him. He was quite literally on his own.

 

This was still just a destroyer, and a badly power-creeped one at that. He was constantly being spotted by enemy planes and had taken plenty of damage not only from them but enemy surface ships as well.

Why is it then that we continue to decry and bemoan CVs when ships such as Kremlin, Smolensk, Stalingrad, and Colbert remain in the game and unchanged? The carrier rework isn't the problem plaguing this game at the moment. It's the gross proliferation of HE spamming ships (Smolensk, Colbert) and greatly over-powered ships that have few, if any, meaningful weaknesses (Kremlin, Stalingrad).

Why is our anger turned to carriers and not the real cancer in this game that I've stated above? Why do the CCs, when they feature "proof" that AA is broken, only ever seem to post videos of them going around in tier 4 and tier 6 CVs (where I freely do admit, the AA discrepancy is vastly favoring the planes and nowhere nearly balanced properly. drop CV plane health at lower tiers a bit or buff AA numbers at lower tiers a bit) with the case-in-point being NoZoup's most recent video on it where he went out and purposefully hunted down destroyers AT LOW TIERS that literally don't HAVE any AA and where low tier CVs are unable to drop fighters to even attempt to protect friendlies? C'mon you guys. You're supposed to be CCs. Stop featuring only the replays and instances that only support your opinions and start looking for other instances like above where there's valid evidence that the opposite can also be true. Where things DO work, and in some instances quite spectacularly.

These constant calls for nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, and broken this, broken that, DDs are dead, the sky is falling for destroyers (no pun intended) are frankly quite old now and seriously not helping -anyone-. Not only that, but you're encouraging toxic behavior by fanning the flames of anger. I've lost track of the number of times I've been called sky cancer (and worse) in game, as well as to go kill myself for playing such a ship class.

I played back in closed beta. I remember what the old CVs were like, where if a carrier wanted you dead, you were dead in a single strike. The chance for "counter play" back then was pretty much non-existent for surface ships beyond clicking a single squadron and/or popping DFAA if you were lucky enough to have it. And usually the planes were gonna get through anyway. The alpha damage was insane for a single attack from multiple squadrons and if you were lucky enough to survive (depending on what you were in), you were usually so badly crippled that the enemy team could easily finish you off if the CV didn't come back for a second (and quite often fatal) strike.

I literally cannot be the only person here who plays destroyers still who doesn't know how to press the 'P' key and turn off my AA guns. Seriously, the air detectability range for most destroyers is so small before camo, modules (tier 8+), and captain's skills factor in, it's hard enough for a CV to spot you as is unless they're right over top of you. If your AA guns are on and they start shooting, you are BROADCASTING where you are. Stop making it easier on carrier players!

 

Ugh. Rant off. Go ahead and start the flood of laughing/angry/bored/downvote responses. I had to get this off my chest after that last video from NoZoup on this matter cause what he said pissed me off to no frigging end, especially with his "evidence" of that low-tier gameplay he offered. Seriously Zoup. I respect you as one of the few sane voices left who wants ALL ship classes (future subs included) in the game to succeed. Don't start slipping and turning into certain other CCs, dude. Please. I am begging you.

I too press the P button.

I probably P more than most.

Although my bout with kidney stones says otherwise.

Yes, I do the sneaky.

Yes, I don't use my guns and torpedo like I had to many Dr Peppers.

I have been found guilty of slipping by to a CV and saying hello with my sausages.

Maybe I use the guns on CVs if I am in my harugumo.

 

I also CV.

Yes, I walked both sides of the dark side and went back and forth like I am crazy.

As a CV, I am guilty of tormenting shimas with rockets only to drop a torpedo just to make them angry.

And in some games, those same shima guys would remember that and always relished getting revenge.

The tradition of CV vs DD hate is actually an obsession between the two.

Both want to beat the crap out of each other.

This relationship, dangerous as it is, has been the subject of fun for BB and cruiser players alike.

But I also am a BB main.

And I like hitting Minos and smollys.

The squishier the better.

 

I also use cruisers, and while fire is fun, AP on another cruiser or a BB is even more fun.

Yeah I am that Zao guy, the one that uses AP.

I also Alaska, Kron, and yep, you guessed it I got a PR.

The bottom line is I try to know all the ships. I want to know their strengths and weaknesses.

I agree, the HE spam is poooey.

 

I wonder what the game would be like if you could only start 1 fire and it burned for 15 secs?

Can you imagine how those battles would be like?

It would be a tectonic shift.

There would be no fire botes.

Just modules being damaged at an alarming rate.

Watching secbats get destroyed.

BBs losing turrets until the only option to finish an opponent is a ram.

Mass hysteria is what that is.

Players will hate it.

 

But I like your post.

I concur.

<O

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Posts 1 magical game with bottom tier CV and tries to say "everything is fine''...

Sees CV's flying circles and Chris-crossing over him repeatedly...

Sees CV's not rocket spam focus  him until near the end...

Picks DD with a heal (which many DD don't have)...

Isn't shot at by other boats (look at that mini map :Smile_veryhappy:) and allowed to sail around pretty much uncontested....

CV's whiff hard several times and throw random squads at DD as an afterthought to whatever else they were doing

Says Div mate didn't provide any support even though at 4:35  and 10:23 he clearly does...

 

That has to be the most cherry picked and terrible example you could possibly use to try and make a tenable argument on. Please try again.

 

 

 

Edited by Vekta408
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It is useless because carriers still get to attack whatever they want.

I've only played a relative handful of carrier games and I simply don't care about AA unless you're in a deathblob of 4 ships. In which case I don't attack the deathblob, I find someone else to attack. AA might as well not exist.

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34 minutes ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

Why is it then that we continue to decry and bemoan CVs when ships such as Kremlin, Smolensk, Stalingrad, and Colbert remain in the game and unchanged? The carrier rework isn't the problem plaguing this game at the moment. It's the gross proliferation of HE spamming ships (Smolensk, Colbert) and greatly over-powered ships that have few, if any, meaningful weaknesses (Kremlin, Stalingrad).

I just want to address this quickly.

These ships have been complained about a significant amount; people have a lot of issues with the Kremlin and Smolensk to this day. 

To my knowledge, the reason why you see so much hate for CVs currently is due to counterplay (as you mentioned). How do you deal with a Kremlin or Smolensk? You shoot them, set them on fire, citadel them, torp them etc. All classes have the ability to deal with these ships (some easier than others obviously). For CVs however, your fight is not with the ship (unless you end up chasing them to the map border) but with their aircraft. And for a lot of people, that is frustrating. Everything that you have learnt about ship-to-ship combat becomes next to useless against CVs. Aside from a couple of captain skills and priority sector you have no control over the ability and effectiveness of your AA. So many other things in this game such as radar, ship-to-ship spotting, torps, incoming shells can be dealt with using experience and player skill: but with CVs none of that applies. The influence and popularity of CVs greatly outweighs that of the ships  you mentioned, hence the discrepancy between the vocal outrage of them.  

I'm not totally against CVs, or want them removed, but I cannot deny that many of my games have been ruined or made far less fun due to consistent CV attacks and scouting, where I can do nothing about it. I kinda kills my desire to play higher tier DDs when I'm being spotted and attacked by CVs all game (without having Kidd level AA). I just want to see incremental changes made to CVs to make them a bit less frustrating to deal with when you're not running some AA monster of a ship.

 

I would like to also point out that the replay was not really showcasing the issue of CVs spotting DDs as they also launch attacks at them. He took plenty of damage from enemy rocket planes, but none of the opposing team took advantage of this as they were all hiding at the back of the map. In any normal random battle he would have likely died due to enemy ships using that aircraft spotting to also damage him.

Edited by SovereignEagle
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8 minutes ago, macktkau2 said:

It is useless because carriers still get to attack whatever they want.

I've only played a relative handful of carrier games and I simply don't care about AA unless you're in a deathblob of 4 ships. In which case I don't attack the deathblob, I find someone else to attack. AA might as well not exist.

If AA didn't exist there wouldn't be such a thing as a "death blob".  In one sentence you say AA deterred you and that AA may as well not exist.  If a single ship's AA was enough to completely block a CV from attacking it at all, what many players seem to set as their low bar for "AA matters", the CV/AA interaction would be completely broken for that ship.

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43 minutes ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

 

@Notser, @NoZoupForYou @iChase and Flamu, but I don't know his handle.

This video is not one I have made. All credit goes to TopTier for the video and RotStuka from SAROC clan on the Asia server for the replay.

Yes, I understand the following:
1. It's a USS Kidd, whose's gimmick was DFAA and strong AA auras and a heal on a DD at tier 8.
2. It's a tier 8 match and there was also a tier 6 ranger on the enemy team.
3. He was divisioned up with a carrier.

 

My return arguments are as follows for everyone else still whining about AA defenses and DFAA in this game:
1. Flamu has pointed out that sector priority system and AA as a whole are broken, with DFAA being entirely and utterly useless with no point to taking such a consumable when this video is proof it really isn't as bad as he and other CCs and streamers constantly repeat ad nauseum.
2. Not only was he under attack from the Ranger, but he was also coming under attack from the Shokaku.
3. His division mate did not provide any fighter support that entire match to him. He was quite literally on his own.

 

This was still just a destroyer, and a badly power-creeped one at that. He was constantly being spotted by enemy planes and had taken plenty of damage not only from them but enemy surface ships as well.

Why is it then that we continue to decry and bemoan CVs when ships such as Kremlin, Smolensk, Stalingrad, and Colbert remain in the game and unchanged? The carrier rework isn't the problem plaguing this game at the moment. It's the gross proliferation of HE spamming ships (Smolensk, Colbert) and greatly over-powered ships that have few, if any, meaningful weaknesses (Kremlin, Stalingrad).

Why is our anger turned to carriers and not the real cancer in this game that I've stated above? Why do the CCs, when they feature "proof" that AA is broken, only ever seem to post videos of them going around in tier 4 and tier 6 CVs (where I freely do admit, the AA discrepancy is vastly favoring the planes and nowhere nearly balanced properly. drop CV plane health at lower tiers a bit or buff AA numbers at lower tiers a bit) with the case-in-point being NoZoup's most recent video on it where he went out and purposefully hunted down destroyers AT LOW TIERS that literally don't HAVE any AA and where low tier CVs are unable to drop fighters to even attempt to protect friendlies? C'mon you guys. You're supposed to be CCs. Stop featuring only the replays and instances that only support your opinions and start looking for other instances like above where there's valid evidence that the opposite can also be true. Where things DO work, and in some instances quite spectacularly.

These constant calls for nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, and broken this, broken that, DDs are dead, the sky is falling for destroyers (no pun intended) are frankly quite old now and seriously not helping -anyone-. Not only that, but you're encouraging toxic behavior by fanning the flames of anger. I've lost track of the number of times I've been called sky cancer (and worse) in game, as well as to go kill myself for playing such a ship class.

I played back in closed beta. I remember what the old CVs were like, where if a carrier wanted you dead, you were dead in a single strike. The chance for "counter play" back then was pretty much non-existent for surface ships beyond clicking a single squadron and/or popping DFAA if you were lucky enough to have it. And usually the planes were gonna get through anyway. The alpha damage was insane for a single attack from multiple squadrons and if you were lucky enough to survive (depending on what you were in), you were usually so badly crippled that the enemy team could easily finish you off if the CV didn't come back for a second (and quite often fatal) strike.

I literally cannot be the only person here who plays destroyers still who doesn't know how to press the 'P' key and turn off my AA guns. Seriously, the air detectability range for most destroyers is so small before camo, modules (tier 8+), and captain's skills factor in, it's hard enough for a CV to spot you as is unless they're right over top of you. If your AA guns are on and they start shooting, you are BROADCASTING where you are. Stop making it easier on carrier players!

 

Ugh. Rant off. Go ahead and start the flood of laughing/angry/bored/downvote responses. I had to get this off my chest after that last video from NoZoup on this matter cause what he said pissed me off to no frigging end, especially with his "evidence" of that low-tier gameplay he offered. Seriously Zoup. I respect you as one of the few sane voices left who wants ALL ship classes (future subs included) in the game to succeed. Don't start slipping and turning into certain other CCs, dude. Please. I am begging you.

To quote your fellow cv white knights: “several of those planes are fighters and therefore can’t hurt you”

btw thanks for proving cv’s have unlimited planes!

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1 minute ago, Helstrem said:

If AA didn't exist there wouldn't be such a thing as a "death blob".  In one sentence you say AA deterred you and that AA may as well not exist.  If a single ship's AA was enough to completely block a CV from attacking it at all, what many players seem to set as their low bar for "AA matters", the CV/AA interaction would be completely broken for that ship.

People don't death blob for AA, they death blob because they're lemming training. The AA is a side effect.

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Just now, macktkau2 said:

People don't death blob for AA, they death blob because they're lemming training. The AA is a side effect.

That is irrelevant to the point.  AA matters.  It blunts, not stops, the CVs attacks and if the CV decides to press home against "death blobs" the CV will shortly be fielding squadrons of inadequate size to be effective.

Players simply don't think in terms of how the CV's attack is blunted and instead focus on the fact that his first, and maybe second, attack came in at full strength.  They don't think about the lack of a third or fourth attack run, but that is where the blunting happens.

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Post a one in one thousand chance game...says CV vs DD is fine.  You and WG are two peas in a pod.

In a dynamic environment...CV has a massive advantage 100% of the time.  It’s just a matter of whether or not they choose to exercise it.  That is the problem.

Edited by LastSamurai714
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1 hour ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

This video is not one I have made. All credit goes to TopTier for the video and RotStuka from SAROC clan on the Asia server for the replay.

This is like showing the single winning lottery ticket and claiming that you have a 100% chance to win the lottery

AA is useless

A single exception game that happens once in a blue moon proves nothing.

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1 hour ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

 

@Notser, @NoZoupForYou @iChase and Flamu, but I don't know his handle.

This video is not one I have made. All credit goes to TopTier for the video and RotStuka from SAROC clan on the Asia server for the replay.

Yes, I understand the following:
1. It's a USS Kidd, whose's gimmick was DFAA and strong AA auras and a heal on a DD at tier 8.
2. It's a tier 8 match and there was also a tier 6 ranger on the enemy team.
3. He was divisioned up with a carrier.

 

My return arguments are as follows for everyone else still whining about AA defenses and DFAA in this game:
1. Flamu has pointed out that sector priority system and AA as a whole are broken, with DFAA being entirely and utterly useless with no point to taking such a consumable when this video is proof it really isn't as bad as he and other CCs and streamers constantly repeat ad nauseum.
2. Not only was he under attack from the Ranger, but he was also coming under attack from the Shokaku.
3. His division mate did not provide any fighter support that entire match to him. He was quite literally on his own.

 

This was still just a destroyer, and a badly power-creeped one at that. He was constantly being spotted by enemy planes and had taken plenty of damage not only from them but enemy surface ships as well.

Why is it then that we continue to decry and bemoan CVs when ships such as Kremlin, Smolensk, Stalingrad, and Colbert remain in the game and unchanged? The carrier rework isn't the problem plaguing this game at the moment. It's the gross proliferation of HE spamming ships (Smolensk, Colbert) and greatly over-powered ships that have few, if any, meaningful weaknesses (Kremlin, Stalingrad).

Why is our anger turned to carriers and not the real cancer in this game that I've stated above? Why do the CCs, when they feature "proof" that AA is broken, only ever seem to post videos of them going around in tier 4 and tier 6 CVs (where I freely do admit, the AA discrepancy is vastly favoring the planes and nowhere nearly balanced properly. drop CV plane health at lower tiers a bit or buff AA numbers at lower tiers a bit) with the case-in-point being NoZoup's most recent video on it where he went out and purposefully hunted down destroyers AT LOW TIERS that literally don't HAVE any AA and where low tier CVs are unable to drop fighters to even attempt to protect friendlies? C'mon you guys. You're supposed to be CCs. Stop featuring only the replays and instances that only support your opinions and start looking for other instances like above where there's valid evidence that the opposite can also be true. Where things DO work, and in some instances quite spectacularly.

These constant calls for nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, and broken this, broken that, DDs are dead, the sky is falling for destroyers (no pun intended) are frankly quite old now and seriously not helping -anyone-. Not only that, but you're encouraging toxic behavior by fanning the flames of anger. I've lost track of the number of times I've been called sky cancer (and worse) in game, as well as to go kill myself for playing such a ship class.

I played back in closed beta. I remember what the old CVs were like, where if a carrier wanted you dead, you were dead in a single strike. The chance for "counter play" back then was pretty much non-existent for surface ships beyond clicking a single squadron and/or popping DFAA if you were lucky enough to have it. And usually the planes were gonna get through anyway. The alpha damage was insane for a single attack from multiple squadrons and if you were lucky enough to survive (depending on what you were in), you were usually so badly crippled that the enemy team could easily finish you off if the CV didn't come back for a second (and quite often fatal) strike.

I literally cannot be the only person here who plays destroyers still who doesn't know how to press the 'P' key and turn off my AA guns. Seriously, the air detectability range for most destroyers is so small before camo, modules (tier 8+), and captain's skills factor in, it's hard enough for a CV to spot you as is unless they're right over top of you. If your AA guns are on and they start shooting, you are BROADCASTING where you are. Stop making it easier on carrier players!

 

Ugh. Rant off. Go ahead and start the flood of laughing/angry/bored/downvote responses. I had to get this off my chest after that last video from NoZoup on this matter cause what he said pissed me off to no frigging end, especially with his "evidence" of that low-tier gameplay he offered. Seriously Zoup. I respect you as one of the few sane voices left who wants ALL ship classes (future subs included) in the game to succeed. Don't start slipping and turning into certain other CCs, dude. Please. I am begging you.

07

You know what is what :) 

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1 minute ago, Salvo_Creative said:

07

You know what is what :) 

Dodge...press P...don’t play tier 4-6 DD.  That’s what is what? 

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51 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

I probably P more than most.

They have special clinics for that.

52 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

I have been found guilty of slipping by to a CV and saying hello with my sausages.

And they have therapy for that.

53 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

I wonder what the game would be like if you could only start 1 fire and it burned for 5 secs?

Can you imagine how those battles would be like?

You would be driving a CV. We all know what those battles are like.

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Cool lets install the KIDD's AA to the other DDs that can't shoot 1 plan per CV attack run...

Its obvious the significant QOF changes that will bring to DD play.. I am all for that...

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1 hour ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

This was still just a destroyer, and a badly power-creeped one at that.

Well, that's not quite true, now is it? He is a DD, but not really JUST a DD; he's a premium DD specifically designed to have great AA. And when did premium ships ever really get power crept? Isn't Fujin still the unholy monster DD? Isn't Belfast still a killer cruiser? Isn't Nickolai still one badazzed BB? Your facts aren't really facts, now are they?

1 hour ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

He was constantly being spotted by enemy planes and had taken plenty of damage not only from them but enemy surface ships as well.

And he had heals, which MOST DDs do not have. 

1 hour ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

Why is it then that we continue to decry and bemoan CVs when ships such as Kremlin, Smolensk, Stalingrad, and Colbert remain in the game and unchanged?

Because those ships can be shot back at, and CVs can't.

1 hour ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

The carrier rework isn't the problem plaguing this game at the moment.

Yes it is.

1 hour ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

Why do the CCs, when they feature "proof" that AA is broken, only ever seem to post videos of them going around in tier 4 and tier 6 CVs (where I freely do admit, the AA discrepancy is vastly favoring the planes and nowhere nearly balanced properly. drop CV plane health at lower tiers a bit or buff AA numbers at lower tiers a bit)

Weren't YOU playing a tier 6 CV? Out for a little seal clubbing and, instead, got clubbed?

Dude, you, and your fellow CV driver in the Shokaku, LOST that match by playing really, and I mean REALLY, dumb. You FED him planes the whole match; and what was it you said about DD Captains making it easy for carrier drivers? Were you TRYING to give him a 100 plane game? There were green ships all over the map you could have attacked, ships with MUCH crappier AA, but time and time again you sent your weak azzed squadrons against an AA monster, then wonder why you got spanked. You played DUMB!

So what we REALLY have here is an AA monster of a DD, who admittedly did things right, facing off against what has to be the two WORST CV players in the game when it comes to picking targets. You GAVE him 100 dead planes. This doesn't even begin to address the fact that this was 1 game, and ONLY 1 game; how many matches could you put up where two CV ran wild all over the map against ships which didn't have Kidd level AA and heals? Very few other ships have AA that good, probably less than 2 dozen out of, what is it now, 325 plus ARP ships? (and believe me, those ARP ships have crap AA!) 

CVs are WAY broken, so broken, if fact, that WG has given them special fire, and flooding, mechanics so one side won't lose one by having some surface ship sink it. And on top of that they get GOD level AA so carriers won't snipe each other, which should be happening first thing every match. You CV guys are rapidly gaining on even BBaBBies on being the most catered to type of ships in the game. I say on your way because the fire(IFHE) and flooding nerfs are nothing more than BB protection; can't have anything in the game capable of sinking a BB unless it's another BB. So that saved your butts.

So don't come to the Forum complaining because ONE MATCH involving ONE AA DD had 100 planes shot down. We love watching that crap. Want to give that guy a Medal!

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7 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

And I am actually holding back

I'm touched, though probably not as much as the man who wants to stick his sausage in a CV just to say HELLO! And have a Happy, Sausage Fondling Day! I'm so happy I could start it out on a high note for you; nothing like a little pick me up to get your day rolling along at full tilt. Yes, tilt, exactly the right word. ENJOY!

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2 hours ago, X01_ISAAC_7 said:

tl;[edited]

Any ship except maybe Kawachi or Arkansas Beta can kill 100 planes if CV is potato just feeding planes straight into a sector meat grinder. Especially ship like Kidd with boss AA as primary gimmick.

Big part of learning CV is to get guder at dodge the flak puffs, sling shot, and timing defaa/sector cooldown. I am still learning with far to go, but I learn from CV unicorns that DD AA is not the problem. Kido Butai pilot needs more practice!

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OP, there is no point in trying to reason with any of the CV haters. Just work on getting better so you can make them rage in game, and if we are lucky, they will rage quit and stop ruining the game for the rest of us with their excessive salt. It's not to say CVs are perfect, but they aren't nearly as bad as the vocal minority wants the rest of us to believe.

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So pick a fight that has the perfect conditions for your point and ignore all of the data which indicates a different conclusion.  Got it.

Edited by ruar
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55qQbju.gif

 

 

AH.... I see it now...
CVs are NOT OP, after all this time, we finally have PROOF...
ONE GAME SAYS IT ALL!!!!

RIvX3LR.gif

 

Edited by neptunes_wrath
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3 hours ago, Helstrem said:

If a single ship's AA was enough to completely block a CV from attacking it at all, what many players seem to set as their low bar for "AA matters", the CV/AA interaction would be completely broken for that ship.

The low bar I'd really like to set is being able to meaningfully protect any ship in my AA bubble. So, if I'm protecting a BB from torpedo, dive, or level bombers, it's usually okay if the CV gets off one full strength attack, since that won't likely take a significant chunk of the BBs unrepairable hit points. However, as things stand now, if I'm unable to completely deter or destroy a CV's attack planes, one attack pass can often remove 30% to 50% of a DDs health.

 

And, that DD health usually can't be repaired, either, so all of it usually counts. Where only the unrepairable portion of what was done to the BB counts if they still have repair party charges.

 

If I'm unable to use a ship with "strong AA" to provide roughly the same amount of relative protection to both, measured by the net effect on their hit points going into the mid and late game, then my AA has failed in some aspect.

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3 hours ago, macktkau2 said:

It is useless because carriers still get to attack whatever they want.

I've only played a relative handful of carrier games and I simply don't care about AA unless you're in a deathblob of 4 ships. In which case I don't attack the deathblob, I find someone else to attack. AA might as well not exist.

What tier carrier do you have that handful of games in?

 

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3 hours ago, Helstrem said:

That is irrelevant to the point.  AA matters.  It blunts, not stops, the CVs attacks and if the CV decides to press home against "death blobs" the CV will shortly be fielding squadrons of inadequate size to be effective.

Players simply don't think in terms of how the CV's attack is blunted and instead focus on the fact that his first, and maybe second, attack came in at full strength.  They don't think about the lack of a third or fourth attack run, but that is where the blunting happens.

Whenever I see an "AA is useless" post, I do wonder if the player considers anything short of completely stopping the bombers before they can even try to drop ordinance "useless". 

Because in my estimation, if its killing enough of the planes over time that the carrier can't keep attacking, or that it reduces the carrier to using incomplete squadrons or the "wrong" squadron, it is useful.  

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