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JEFFREY_LEI

Bayard or Massachusetts?

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In the beginning I wanted to go for Massachusetts, but after seeing some premium ship ranking videos, Bayard looks like a good ship too. Which ship should I buy?

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5 minutes ago, JEFFREY_LEI said:

In the beginning I wanted to go for Massachusetts, but after seeing some premium ship ranking videos, Bayard looks like a good ship too. Which ship should I buy?

Bayard + IFHE can pen us bb decks of 38mm

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7 minutes ago, JEFFREY_LEI said:

In the beginning I wanted to go for Massachusetts, but after seeing some premium ship ranking videos, Bayard looks like a good ship too. Which ship should I buy?

Apples and oranges.  Both good, but what are you looking for.  Mass is a BB with fire-starting secondaries, Bayard is most like a French Cleveland, with torps, imo.

 

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11 minutes ago, JEFFREY_LEI said:

I don't really know.

Massachusetts is the safer pick then. It’s hard to go wrong with that ship.

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With mass you need a minimum 14 point captain specialized to her (or Georgia) just to start to maximize her protential. The bayard jives better with the French cruisers than mass does with us bbs.

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Would you rather spam He yourself or have AI do it:Smile_trollface:

 

But yea, I dont have much expirence with Bayard, but Mass is near useless unless you have a designated captain for her, which you probably cant spare umless you own a Gerogia/Ohio. With a nice captain she is really fun. A favorite of many captains, especially with her boosted secondary battery accuracy

Edited by _BBaby

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I have both, both are fun. draw backs are as mentioned mass needs 14 pt capt or better to truely enjoy her and the capt will have to specialize to her and georgia, bayard is very squishy like all french CLs

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Bayard is one of the strongest T8 premiums if played correctly with a high skill floor. Massachusetts have a lower skill floor but at the same time, is less rewarding.

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Sont listen to the people who say you NEED a dedicated Captian.

IFHE meme build can be fun... right up until you get burned to the waterline because you gave up survival skills for the memes.

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Honestly, if you’re still feeling your way through the ship classes but have your heart set on buying a tier VIII premium, I’d suggest Massachusetts. She’s more forgiving than Bayard, fun and effective in her own right, and provides a satisfying experience either with her own secondary spec captain, or as a general USN BB captain trainer. 

They’re both great ships, Bayard’s just more likely to frustrate you until you come to grips with her and high tier play in general. 

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At 860 battles you probably don't have all the skills needed to make the Bayard work. Unless you're some sort of cruiser savant. BBs are more forgiving when you're first starting out.

My big mistake back in the day was buying the Kutuzov way before I was ready to do her justice. So I know what the temptations are like. :Smile_child:

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they are so totally different, you obviously need both. :)

 

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14 hours ago, Sou1forge said:

Massachusetts is the safer pick then. It’s hard to go wrong with that ship.

Without at least a 14 point captain the Mass isn't nearly as good as she can be. You really need to get those secondaries pumping to make her work well.

Though probably the same issue with the Baynard, requiring IFHE & CE means a 14 pt captain as well.

14 hours ago, JEFFREY_LEI said:

I don't really know.

Jeffrey, if you're not sure if you like BBs or CLs, then ask yourself which ship fits what you do have captains & lines wise, because (as I mention above,) both of those ships are excellent ships if you have a high enough point captain to use. I have the MA, she's my most played ship and a great and easy start to the day for me to make some credits while having my first coffee... but until I got a 14 point captain in her, the secondaries really weren't nearly as potent as they need to be in order to make her sing.

The Baynard is a beast in a skilled captain's hands, but DolphinPrincess suggests, the skill ceiling is pretty high. 

Looking over your ship list and history, I'm not sure you have captains for either line which would really translate over well to the Mass or Baynard. You have a fair bit of German captains, have you considered the Tirpitz? She's a very well rounded ship and has torpedoes if folks push in too close on you - though many poorer players over extend just to try and get off their torps.

 

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15 hours ago, JEFFREY_LEI said:

In the beginning I wanted to go for Massachusetts, but after seeing some premium ship ranking videos, Bayard looks like a good ship too. Which ship should I buy?

The only issue with Bayard is that her performance may have limited shelf life.  She's special right now because she has 1/5th HE penetration.  However, if this becomes standard (as Wargaming have hinted at since before Bayard's release) with the upcoming IFHE changes (which may or may not go through) then Bayard loses some of her sparkle.  She'll still be good -- she's a French cruiser after all, but she won't be stupid-amazing like she is now.

  • Cool 1

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The only caveat on Massa is that you really need a dedicated 19 point captain (that you can share with Georgia when you get her) to get the absolute most out of her.  With a regular 10 point captain she is good, but the dispersion can be frustrating, especially at longer ranges.  With a full 19 points she can be hilariously fun.

 

Why yes.. I am running a full secondary meme build.  Why do you ask?

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14 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

 

Why yes.. I am running a full secondary meme build.  Why do you ask?

To know how many high fives to give you, obviously!

giphy.gif

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17 hours ago, JEFFREY_LEI said:

In the beginning I wanted to go for Massachusetts, but after seeing some premium ship ranking videos, Bayard looks like a good ship too. Which ship should I buy?

It's entirely up to what style your are looking for.

I'm a cruiser main but I haven't found Bayard to be enjoyable. I got it in a Christmas crate. It's a long-range HE spammer. It does a lot of the same tricks that the other French cruisers do but with more speed, more HE spam, smaller-sized guns, and less durability. It also plays like the high-tier French DDs but with less speed, more HE damage and less durability. I say less durability because Bayard is bigger and slower than the DDs (making her easier to hit), it has a citadel (which will get hit a lot when she gets hit), and it doesn't have the favorable damage saturation rules that the DDs have. Best news is that BBs seem to overpen her a lot. Unfortunately other cruisers will not and Italian, Russian, German and Japanese CAs and CLs with higher velocity guns don't have that much trouble hitting you at the ranges that Bayard operates. It may take a ranging shot or two but you'll get drilled on the third one. I enjoy the run-and-gun but the DDs are more fun and are better at it.

Bayard also has a lot of trouble with CVs. It doesn't have as much effective AA as you would think, which, along with its low HP pool makes it an easy target. It can't really encourage CVs to stay away, it is just big enough to eat all the rockets from attack planes and it has nowhere near enough armor to mitigate any of it. It also eats a lot of damage from HE bombers and will eat citadels from Enterprise's bombers. Only good news is I don't think its deck can arm Shokaku's or GZ's bombs but I'm not sure on this. Despite all this it isn't a bad ship. It is an incredible DPS machine theoretically, but I can never get that theory to work in practice. It probably does better in a division where you have reliable teammates to cove for its flaws (and maybe provide a smoke) but it doesn't seem to be an impactful ship if you are solo in randoms. I also don't like cruisers who can't contribute to the team beyond dps. My feeling is that cruisers need to bring as much to the table as they can to help support middling random teams and Bayard just doesn't do that. I vastly prefer Cleveland, or Edinburgh for a CL because they can go in and help control territory. 

Mass is a secondary-build semi-brawling BB. Nothing mysterious about it. I don't love higher-tier BB play in general because it is so static and timid, but Mass breaks that mold is one of my absolute favorite ships to play. 

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I would get neither until you have more experience and Captains that can make either shine. I would get a t5 to t7 premium, cheaper and more forgiving MM. Something like Exeter for a CA, or Scharnhorst for a BB. If co op only then I would go with Mass and focus on getting a 19 point Captain for her before going into random.

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