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A good cause (railroading)

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Restore yes, put in museum sure.

But run, uh no.

That train is one giant boiler.

The coal alone would be not environmentally friendly.

Given its age, that boiler could explode and if you are not familiar with that type of explosion, then look it up.

At work we have a boiler that is over 20 years old and recently we have now considered replacement since another company near by had one same age explode.

I won't go in to much detail about the incident but go so far as to say that it cost 2 lives.

Restore, put in museum.

Not all things last forever.

And we take it quite too often that things can get old.

And some of those things are engineering marvels, but are often not taken well care of.

Even this cause may save it for posterity, but it's days of running on a track are long gone.

Nothing lasts forever.

Not you, me, or anybody.

Cherish what you have, because it might be gone some day.

Don't neglect it. Or it becomes a relic of a bygone era.

I once rode in a steam locomotive as a child, but the very next year it was decommissioned.

The sound, the smoke, the scenery as you moved by was memorable, but as a child, I had no idea it would be the last.

I got one as a toy. A Lionel.

It was always fun to take out for the holidays.

Take it from me. I miss the real thing.

All good things come to an end.

I hope the fundraiser is a success.

Historical preservation is at best the only destiny for that train.

 

Good luck

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2 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Historical preservation is at best the only destiny for that train.

Union Pacific resurrected and runs a Big Boy 4-8-8-4. They also run a Challenger 4-6-6-4 and a Northern 4-8-4 in their steam heritage program. All were rebuilt to as-new specifications and environmentally dangerous asbestos lining was removed and replaced by modern non-toxic materials. High pressure steam boiler reconstruction is done all the time, even today, mostly in power generating stations and industrial facilities. All three locomotives were originally built as either coal or oil-fired and could be adapted from one form of fuel to the other in a backshop in about three days. This is rolling history. UP put safety first on this, and they are all oil-fired at present

When you see the Big Boy rolling along at 50 MPH with 40 loaded covered hoppers in addition to its' normal heavyweight inspection train consist, you start to appreciate how powerful these locomotives are. As a lifetime professional railroader and locomotive engineer with 28 years experience in heavy-haul freight operations, just let me say that nothing is impossible with modern technology.

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6 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

High pressure steam boiler reconstruction is done all the time, even today, mostly in power generating stations and industrial facilities.

True, but there are sound economic reasons for doing so.

You can refurbish and upgrade a steam locomotive, but you will do so at a loss.

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3 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Restore yes, put in museum sure.

But run, uh no.

Oh, okay. Man, it must be impossible. They should just give up.

co1309testfirechaseoct2018.jpg?h=384&la=

What kind of person are you? Get lost.

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1 hour ago, DrHolmes52 said:

True, but there are sound economic reasons for doing so.

You can refurbish and upgrade a steam locomotive, but you will do so at a loss.

Operating or updating any kind of heavy equipment is a economical loss.

Its whether or not you can recoup that loss thru increased production, tourism, or efficiency is the thing...

At least, at the end of the day, a rebuilt train can still haul freight. 

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1 hour ago, DrHolmes52 said:

True, but there are sound economic reasons for doing so.

You can refurbish and upgrade a steam locomotive, but you will do so at a loss.

They are not meant for revenue service, it is all an expensive public relations operation in any case for UP. Mind you I know of at least three instances where the UP steamers in transit were used to bail out freight trains with a broken-down diesel-electric locomotive that had stalled on a heavy ascending grade and did so with style and panache.

The Big Boy move I mentioned was simply an instance where advantage was taken to move surplus revenue tonnage that would have sat in a yard for an additional 24 hours before being forwarded to the customer. It also allowed them to do HP dynamometer mesurement with the additional tonnage that allows them to establish a modern tonnage rating for the Big Boy. When push comes to shove, a Big Boy can easily move as much revenue tonnage as two 3,000 HP diesels in a pinch. That is what they were made for during WWII, as all diesel motors were required by the USN for warships and landing craft in the war effort and building high-powered steamers made sense even though freight diesels were proven to be more economical than steam in 1939.

The Big Boy travels with an SD70Ace locomotive coupled behind it that can pick up the load in the event of the steamer breaking down, as do all UP active steamers. UP has rigged their steam fleet for multiple unit (MU) operation with diesels if that becomes necessary, with a second set of standard controls interfaced with the steam lcomotive controls in the cab, a technological feat in itself that requires sound engineering analysis and design. The air brake system that was installed during the initial rebuild already allowed MU'ed air brake function. Steam locomotives were never equipped for MU operation and use of a second locomotive in double header or pusher operation required an additional crew back in the day.

IMHO, UP has done this with style, and are to be commended for their respect and demonstration of their own history and its' impact on American history.

My very first ride in a locomotive cab as a boy was aboard a CN 6100-class steamer with two of my uncles operating the locomotive. You can conclude that my career path choice was affected at a very young age!

Edited by GrandAdmiral_2016

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7 hours ago, Battlecruiser_Repulse said:

Oh, okay. Man, it must be impossible. They should just give up.

co1309testfirechaseoct2018.jpg?h=384&la=

What kind of person are you? Get lost.

It's dangerous, somebody could get hurt. Tetanus definitely from the picture.

Just because they lit the boiler does not mean that it can hold pressure.

Go even a stretch of hilly terrain and a leak will occur.

Metal fatigue is real. It is not just rust. Time is the real enemy.

You can't just slap on a patch to cast iron. The whole component or module would have to be removed, copied to a new cast mold, and reforged either from the original steel or add on additional steel.

They made them great back in the day. But let's be real, nobody will ever let you stand next to that boiler and risk a leak flash burn to you.

As amazing as those engineers did to light it. Given its age, it would be unrealistic to actually use the engine.

There are engines just as old and they are preserved, but age keeps them off the track due to legal and safety issues.

You have to weigh the train's restoration for exhibit with public safety.

The burning question is if I run the train, will bystanders and riders be safe?

Sure I will get lost, but at least I am being realistic. I sure didn't lose my mind because I know better.

Knowing about how metal works is important in many professions. 

And so is public safety.

 

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9 hours ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

Union Pacific resurrected and runs a Big Boy 4-8-8-4. They also run a Challenger 4-6-6-4 and a Northern 4-8-4 in their steam heritage program. All were rebuilt to as-new specifications and environmentally dangerous asbestos lining was removed and replaced by modern non-toxic materials. High pressure steam boiler reconstruction is done all the time, even today, mostly in power generating stations and industrial facilities. All three locomotives were originally built as either coal or oil-fired and could be adapted from one form of fuel to the other in a backshop in about three days. This is rolling history. UP put safety first on this, and they are all oil-fired at present

When you see the Big Boy rolling along at 50 MPH with 40 loaded covered hoppers in addition to its' normal heavyweight inspection train consist, you start to appreciate how powerful these locomotives are. As a lifetime professional railroader and locomotive engineer with 28 years experience in heavy-haul freight operations, just let me say that nothing is impossible with modern technology.

That's great UP is doing this, but they are able to afford the cost due to Berkshire Hathaway and Warren Buffet.

If the current engine is being refurbished by the same standards, then it would be safe.

But they are independent.

Now they could ask UP for help.

Then it would pass UPs standards for safety.

I am sure the people will do their best on the refurbish, but I would be concerned if some things deemed expensive were passed over on favor of something else.

And I would not be surprised if the fund raiser gets the project done, but decides later to park the train.

Such projects are never easy.

One always finds something else wrong in an inspection.

 

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1 hour ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

It's dangerous, somebody could get hurt. Tetanus definitely from the picture.

Just because they lit the boiler does not mean that it can hold pressure.

Go even a stretch of hilly terrain and a leak will occur.

Metal fatigue is real. It is not just rust. Time is the real enemy.

You can't just slap on a patch to cast iron. The whole component or module would have to be removed, copied to a new cast mold, and reforged either from the original steel or add on additional steel.

They made them great back in the day. But let's be real, nobody will ever let you stand next to that boiler and risk a leak flash burn to you.

As amazing as those engineers did to light it. Given its age, it would be unrealistic to actually use the engine.

There are engines just as old and they are preserved, but age keeps them off the track due to legal and safety issues.

You have to weigh the train's restoration for exhibit with public safety.

The burning question is if I run the train, will bystanders and riders be safe?

Sure I will get lost, but at least I am being realistic. I sure didn't lose my mind because I know better.

Knowing about how metal works is important in many professions. 

And so is public safety.

 

Jeez, you're an amazing expert! I suppose wizards are what's keeping the hundreds of restored locomotives worldwide from flying apart at the rivets? That must be it.

a-wizard-did-it-gif-1.gif

I can't tell if you're trolling, or if you legitimately buy into this ranting lunacy. Either, way, though, I've peered into my crystal ball and determined that there is only one career path open to you.

1dd43f36d1085b5638424d0847f594eb--hair-w

 

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12 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

The coal alone would be not environmentally friendly.

Way to let the little things ruin your life.

12 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Given its age, that boiler could explode and if you are not familiar with that type of explosion, then look it up.

You have no idea what goes into a restoration, do you?  The boiler is likely in better shape now than when it was new.  These guys racked up million of safe miles with their "dangerous" technology.  Try enjoying something for a change.

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1 minute ago, Battlecruiser_Repulse said:

Jeez, you're an amazing expert! I suppose wizards are what's keeping the hundreds of restored locomotives worldwide from flying apart at the rivets? That must be it.

a-wizard-did-it-gif-1.gif

I can't tell if you're trolling, or if you legitimately buy into this ranting lunacy. Either, way, though, I've peered into my crystal ball and determined that there is only one career path open to you.

1dd43f36d1085b5638424d0847f594eb--hair-w

 

Oh my. Maybe if you watched a documentary or two about how things are made, then maybe you could understand.

But I have better luck with having a conversation  with someone on a level of maturity that you might be struggling to attain.

This is going nowhere.

I am not sure why I bother.

I am no expert.

But hearing you say I am is unnerving everyone else because everyone else knows I am no expert.

So by that jacked up logic, endorsing a known non-fact, calls into question whether you yourself are even thinking with any rationality.

IDK, animations, pictures, hmmm.

Seeing as this is not related to Warships, I guess I am done with the topic.

Moving along.

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2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Way to let the little things ruin your life.

You have no idea what goes into a restoration, do you?  The boiler is likely in better shape now than when it was new.  These guys racked up million of safe miles with their "dangerous" technology.  Try enjoying something for a change.

I actually do find things that are enjoyable.

Or at least some presume I have not.

Either you do know me or you don't.

I am going with latter, but I don't know you so I could be wrong.

There in,  is laid the consequences of assumption.

That is why I, in most cases, go with what is called experience.

Otherwise I just offer opinions and observations.

I also inject humor and the occasional answer to repulsive posts.

Mainly because I think it's oddly fascinating.

Because I quite often see a lot of contradictions and a few even duck questions by changing the subject.

I am just going with the flow.

It's amusing to me that forums can't go 1 hour without polite discussion.

I am sure this topic has derailed enough.

 

Thanks for posting. But it's okay not to thank me.

I got used to that a long time ago.

See some of you on the fair seas.

Avoid leming trains if you can. Repel those reds, duck enemy fire, and have fun.

<O

 

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15 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

That train is one giant boiler.

Given its age, that boiler could explode and if you are not familiar with that type of explosion, then look it up.

Not all things last forever.

Nothing lasts forever.

Not you, me, or anybody.

All good things come to an end.

wondering how you might feel about relic firearms restoration?

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1 minute ago, Spud_butt said:

wondering how you might feel about relic firearms restoration?

I have restored 3 rifles. I tested them myself.

I usually have a friend check it for me with his equipment before I commit to a restoration.

I only keep two of those rifles for myself.

All 3 were mosin nagants M91/30.

I replaced the wood if it rotted and replaced the triggers.

2 of them I have set up with scout scope rigs so I can keep the bolt authentic.

I didn't have to reblue any of them since they came out of Tula.

They are Rated average to good by one agency that inspects them, but I still have a second opinion.

I used to restore Mosins to either the wood stock if the stock could be restored or I order a synthetic glass bed free float.

I am the only one who fires the two.

And I am the envy of the range as it is the longest barrel there with the exception of the 50 Cal rifles sold these days.

The ammo is easy to acquire.

Romanian seems to shoot nice, but corrosive.

The third rifle I sold to a cold war army officer.

It was a 1917 Romanov Imperial Crest mosin. I restored the wood and had to make the finish look original.

It took a few tests inside the area not seen on the barrel to get a blue to match.

I cleaned it well enough to shoot.

Since it pre-dates 1964, I sold it to the collector for an unusual sum of 2,300 dollars American in 1997.

He has it in a case with an Imperial Russian Soldier uniform.

That is one of many"hobbies" I have.

As for weapons maintenance, I had my high school armory pass perfect for the 3 years I was in command.

My specialty is the M14 rifle or the civilian Springfield M1A1.

But I have maintained many rifles and hand guns of the modern era.

My experience with steam locomotive engines is with my great uncle who repaired them for over 40 years until retirement.

He told me or my father about his experience there and the fun he had, and tragically, the time he had to bury friends because of an accident. With the exception of a few, some had not enough remains to fit in a box.

That train company was then called Southern Pacific. I think was absorbed by UP later.

He told me every safety rule written in his business had at least two pay with blood.

He took safety seriously and lived to 82 retired.

I am not mentioning this as credentials in this post, I am only pointing out that no matter how safe you build or refurbish, if it's not properly maintained, the equipment will fail.

And sometimes with dire consequences.

It is up to you to decide if you want to go out there and think everything is safe.

This is not paranoia, it's about common sense.

Every time a person uses their device while driving, a truck driver closes their eyes for just a second, there is a potential for danger.

You can trivial safety and people being careful, but until it hits you at home, only then do you really get what I am saying.

Now that I have cast a rather somber and depressing mood here, maybe some will probably think about what I am trying to explain.

If I am not doing it well, then a simple," I don't understand" is enough.

Anyway, I am done here.

Have a good evening.

<O

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

They are not meant for revenue service, it is all an expensive public relations operation in any case for UP. Mind you I know of at least three instances where the UP steamers in transit were used to bail out freight trains with a broken-down diesel-electric locomotive that had stalled on a heavy ascending grade and did so with style and panache.

The Big Boy move I mentioned was simply an instance where advantage was taken to move surplus revenue tonnage that would have sat in a yard for an additional 24 hours before being forwarded to the customer. It also allowed them to do HP dynamometer mesurement with the additional tonnage that allows them to establish a modern tonnage rating for the Big Boy. When push comes to shove, a Big Boy can easily move as much revenue tonnage as two 3,000 HP diesels in a pinch. That is what they were made for during WWII, as all diesel motors were required by the USN for warships and landing craft in the war effort and building high-powered steamers made sense even though freight diesels were proven to be more economical than steam in 1939.

The Big Boy travels with an SD70Ace locomotive coupled behind it that can pick up the load in the event of the steamer breaking down, as do all UP active steamers. UP has rigged their steam fleet for multiple unit (MU) operation with diesels if that becomes necessary, with a second set of standard controls interfaced with the steam lcomotive controls in the cab, a technological feat in itself that requires sound engineering analysis and design. The air brake system that was installed during the initial rebuild already allowed MU'ed air brake function. Steam locomotives were never equipped for MU operation and use of a second locomotive in double header or pusher operation required an additional crew back in the day.

IMHO, UP has done this with style, and are to be commended for their respect and demonstration of their own history and its' impact on American history.

My very first ride in a locomotive cab as a boy was aboard a CN 6100-class steamer with two of my uncles operating the locomotive. You can conclude that my career path choice was affected at a very young age!

Yeah, UP has the resources to make this happen.

My only point is that maintaining an operational boiler (and certified operator/conductor) costs money.

An independent isn't going to have the resources that UP does.  I hope they make it work.  It is always good to see historic stuff run.

 

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worked for Railco, Inc on a logging spur that was shut down 5 years after we completed it. of a crew of 17, 5 were injured on the job, when a hydraulic line ruptured on a Pettibone, which threw a tie into the group that was pounding spikes by hand.

worked out of Local 86 (Tacoma, Wa) Ironworkers for Alaska Pacific Erectors. after we had 3 fall off a hopper (no safety lines at 60 ft, high winds, light rain), we were assigned to unloading railcars on the Tacoma Flats for the pipeline project. 14 journeymen left on the job, 5 were injured in the cars (shifting loads, operators not following signals, and signalmen not watching those of us attaching the chokers.

working setting chokers for a logging company that will remain unnamed, chokers were in poor repair, snapped and whipped thru a crew of 8. the cables were almost 1/4 mile long.

worked for PNW Diving Services, we had a contract servicing underwater cables in Hood Canal while I was there. One of our crews was car pooling, the favorite car was a '63 VW Bug, Webasto heater (gas fired). it was leaking CO, which built up in their systems on the 50 min commute to work, all 3 suffocated at 65 ft. took months to figure that one out.

volunteered in the late 90s to help restore a B25 in Gilroy, CA. got to be one of the 1st 50 people up when it was done, shortly before it was grounded as being unsafe. was safer in the air on that thing than driving back home on the 101, during the Gilroy Garlic Festival.

Ralph Nadar was attempting to kill the Corvair. and Ford kept producing Pintos with the same issues because it was $63 cheaper per car to do so.

first thing my Sensei said to me in '72, first day of Judo/Danzan Ryu Jujitsu, was something along the lines of 'there's no such thing as safety and security. just when you think you are prepared for anything, that pesky asteroid wipes out life as we know it.

I would sign a waiver to head out on the Missouri and watch the Main Batteries fire in a heartbeat. it would be safer than driving on I25 in New Mexico on a weekend, and how many of us will there be on the planet that have experienced that in person.

ditto an old steam locomotive. 

Edited by Spud_butt
my piss poor spelling
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On 2/4/2020 at 10:40 AM, DrHolmes52 said:

You can refurbish and upgrade a steam locomotive, but you will do so at a loss.

The history behind a piece of technology that helped to connect a country in the days before cars and planes is more valuable, I'd argue.

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